[Ciggavelli]

I was thinking more noise and distortion type of tests

That’s kinda what I mean by the tests not being valid representations of what I listen for. Those unmeasurable things are of great interest to me, as I’m a visual listener. I also like distortion at times (like with tubes or bass)

 

[AnalogEuphoria]

Out of interest I wonder why chord does not publish Robs AP measurements on their website, Schiit for example has a full test report under the specifications for the product.

 

[BassicScience]

Where are the impulse response tests? The transients tests? Where are the interpolation filter tests? The noise shaper tests? The noise floor modulation tests? He tests what he wants, especially when it's convenient.

The DAVE recognizes an impulse input and "mutes" the output in response. Apparently Chord feels that the impulse response is IP, although it was suggested that there are alternate ways of teasing it out. Noise floor modulation tests were run for the ASR review, and were rather disappointing considering it's supposedly a calling card of this DAC.

 

[Impossible]

You can defiantly take what Amir is saying as gospel because he is talking about the factual test results.

 

[Icenine2]

Jeez. I walk away for a few days and…WE’RE UNDER ATTACK!!!!!

 

[Currawong]

The lie here is not the test results. The lie is their relevance. It'd be much like running a car on a dyno, taking a picture of the output, and ranking cars based on that alone.

Take Schiit, for example. The best measuring of their DACs is their, very audibly, least resolving one. The whole measurement game is a set-up.

 

[Icenine2]

Even if I hadn't auditioned Chord's DAVE, I would have been impressed by this DAC. Its measured performance is beyond reproach.—John Atkinson

 

[flyte3333]

The room you're in for example might have a noise floor of lets say 60dB, but you can still hear if something very quietly squeaks or makes a sound at 50dB.

If 'noise floor' of a room is 60dB , say due to AC unit noise in the range of 30-300Hz - why would this mask some other noise at 50dB say at 3kHz ?

And that example is acoustic noise anyway.

This is different to digital noise (which is not acoustic noise) below analogue electronics noise?

 

[Reactcore]

I didn't do a further zoomed out one unfortunately. Usually the response of a filter is described by the -3dB point so I have that test set to a fairly close zoom to clearly show that, as it'd be harder to see when zoomed further



https://goldensound.audio/2022/03/14/chord-dave-measurements-with-mscaler/

Hm it actually starts at 5k.. thats in the audible fq range. No wonder i can hear it . Also with HMS..

Hm but then again.. this filter is applied in the digital domain i assume..

 

[Currawong]

Hm it actually starts at 5k.. thats in the audible fq range. No wonder i can hear it . Also with HMS..

Hm but then again.. this filter is applied in the digital domain i assume..

I don't think it is possible to make out 0.2 dB or so of attenuation at 10 khz, and very possibly doesn't even attenuate even half a dB at the (likely) limit of our hearing. However, I sometimes notice a subtle difference with high-res music. The high frequencies removed, which are most often ADC noise anyway (above 50 kHz and can be relatively high) must be interfering subtly somewhere that causes an audible result if we're hearing what we're hearing.

 

[The Jester]

With current state of the art analysers we’re already beyond the threshold of hearing at the Magical SINAD of 100-110 db for sound quality with “standard” measurements, so any differences people hear are placebo or perception bias, something that can’t be measured to wave away any who claim to hear variations, trouble is we listen to music, a complex collection of various sounds from different sources that can interact or harmonise with others, this complex mix is transferred to an electrical signal via microphone, fine tuned “By Ear” in a studio and then stored either on tape or sent to an ADC for digital storage, then replayed out through a DAC, then amplified to a transducer to convert the electrical signal back to that complex collection of sounds that we hear, there are always going to be losses in any of the conversion stages, but I seriously doubt that a SINAD difference of 100 to 110 in the DAC is going to be one of them, so why doesn’t a live, unamplified guitar, piano or sax sound exactly the same as the recorded version ?, sure there is perception involved, that’s how we hear and identify discrete and complex sounds, but if we’ve never heard those unamplified instruments live how can we know what they sound like, what about some some research and efforts into what we’re not measuring that is missing rather that the constant agonising over measured differences that are already beyond audibility ?
Laughter and derision when someone like Rob mentions -300db as if something could be heard at that level instead of reading that the -300db is the accuracy of the relative level of audible signals.

 

[griff500]

It's funny how engineering excellence seems to be equated to 'good enough as you're not going to hear any benefit from anything more than that' by some. Striving for more should be a good thing, much like a car being over-engineered. Certain semi-automatic gearboxes perform objectively worse than others yet add something raw and welcome to the driving experience. Some will prefer the modern seamless experience while others appreciate something more visceral. The majority either have no interest in cars beyond something to get somewhere as cheaply as possible or exercise inverted snobbery against cars they will never be able to afford. I think there's a fair amount of this on a certain objectivist website.

Dave fell into the 'excellent' part of the scale on ASR, which is impressive for a DAC that's 7 years old, but that scale is simply SINAD and I'm sure there's more to how a DAC sounds than that. There's no point in saying that I've clearly heard the differences between DACs, however, as everyone who hears such differences is, apparently, wrong. When the Dave was released it must have been so very far ahead of anything else. I still have no desire to 'upgrade' - it's still a fabulous bit of kit.

Apparently the Mola Mola is recommended and value for money isn't something for him to base his conclusion on, yet it is for the Dave and it was for the Vega G2, which was not recommend but performed very well, has a streamer built in with an excellent app and is a product that I thought sounded great when I had one for a few weeks on loan. Interestingly, the Vega G1 measured 'worse' than the G2 yet was recommend (it's cheaper). If you're going to be 'scientific' then at least be consistent.

 

[pichler]

A mains filter might have only a marginal effect as these are passive devices. You probably need a mains regenerator. This takes the mains, in crude terms in effect basically using it to power a high-quality oscillator which is effectively used as the input of a power amplifier. Your kit is then fed mains voltage and frequency from that amplifier.

The mains itself in general has three major defects: high frequency random noise picked up from external sources, distortion in what is supposed to be a sinusoidal waveform, and drifting frequency.

The first is omnipresent, the others are a function of the loading on the grid. It seems that as you have noticed a degradation in sound quality at certain times of the day only then it is the last two that are most likely bothering your system.

To fix these a regenerator is the way to go. They tend to be a lot more expensive than conditioners/filters.

You can also consider a DIY battery and inverter. That way you can have a go at nailing all three problems.

Hello and thank you for your replies, much appreciated.
I think the proof I can do without big economic damage is to buy the inverter (TS-400-212B - MeanWell 400W Inverter - In 12V Out 220 VAC) 215 euros....
I already have a 12V 95AH lead battery that I use to power the Mscaler and the network modem. If, as I believe, the benefits are significant, I can think of investing in 12V batteries like you did. If I understand correctly you use an inverter for the Dave and one for the amp ...... I guess it is better to power the Dave alone, the two Etudes with another inverter.
Probably so the absorption is minimal if I want to remove the fan of the inverters.

 

[AxelCloris]

As a reminder our guidelines require that all posts in a thread remain on-topic, which in this thread is the Chord DAVE. Those who would like to discuss other topics such as other websites are welcome to start a thread in the Members' Lounge forum as that is off-topic here. Personal commentary of others is never allowed on Head-Fi. Let's please keep the topic of discussion focused on the DAVE and our personal first-hand experiences with it as part of our systems. Thanks everyone.

If anyone has any questions, please feel free to PM me. Now let's bring the conversation back to the DAVE. Thanks all.

 

[SteveHulk]

Hello and thank you for your replies, much appreciated.
I think the proof I can do without big economic damage is to buy the inverter (TS-400-212B - MeanWell 400W Inverter - In 12V Out 220 VAC) 215 euros....
I already have a 12V 95AH lead battery that I use to power the Mscaler and the network modem. If, as I believe, the benefits are significant, I can think of investing in 12V batteries like you did. If I understand correctly you use an inverter for the Dave and one for the amp ...... I guess it is better to power the Dave alone, the two Etudes with another inverter.
Probably so the absorption is minimal if I want to remove the fan of the inverters.

The amp I have is quite power-hungry at 180W as the valve heaters have to run. That's why I have it on a separate higher power inverter. All the low-wattage digital items run on the other inverter.

If you are spooked by the idea that the m scaler might somehow transmit noise to the DAVE via a shared power supply then you can eliminate this worry by having the two on separate batteries and inverters.

I think the 400W inverter is a good choice for you. Removing the fan is a good idea as well

Hello and thank you for your replies, much appreciated.
I think the proof I can do without big economic damage is to buy the inverter (TS-400-212B - MeanWell 400W Inverter - In 12V Out 220 VAC) 215 euros....
I already have a 12V 95AH lead battery that I use to power the Mscaler and the network modem. If, as I believe, the benefits are significant, I can think of investing in 12V batteries like you did. If I understand correctly you use an inverter for the Dave and one for the amp ...... I guess it is better to power the Dave alone, the two Etudes with another inverter.
Probably so the absorption is minimal if I want to remove the fan of the inverters.

The other detail, before you order the inverter, is to make sure the output socket on it is of the type appropriate to where you live.

Using adapters is not really a good idea.