CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[adrianm]

The only issue I have is the loudness of my big PC. Although it's liquid cooled when the main fan spins fast it is extremely noisy, not compatible with critical listening.

What kind of gpu/cpu are you running? i have a 9900k cooled by a Noctua Nh-d15 and an msi trio-x 2080 in a cooler master h500p mesh case (pretty open case) and it's dead quiet when listening to music ,also pretty quiet when gaming.I can hear the bathroom fan across the apartment louder than the pc.
Using a corsair k70 keyboard with low profile cherry mx and it's also pretty quiet for a mechanical keyboard. Plus the tactile feedback feels a lot nicer when switching tracks than a touchscreen

 

[doraymon]

What kind of gpu/cpu are you running? i have a 9900k cooled by a Noctua Nh-d15 and an msi trio-x 2080 in a cooler master h500p mesh case (pretty open case) and it's dead quiet when listening to music ,also pretty quiet when gaming.I can hear the bathroom fan across the apartment louder than the pc.
Using a corsair k70 keyboard with low profile cherry mx and it's also pretty quiet for a mechanical keyboard. Plus the tactile feedback feels a lot nicer when switching tracks than a touchscreen

I'm running a 9600KF cooled by an Asus Rog Strix LC120 an msi RTX2070Super Armor OC graphics card in a NZXT H200 case.
I haven't tried Roon on this computer but when gaming it's a bloody turbofan....

 

[adrianm]

I'm running a 9600KF cooled by an Asus Rog Strix LC120 an msi RTX2070Super Armor OC graphics card in a NZXT H200 case.
I haven't tried Roon on this computer but when gaming it's a bloody turbofan....

You should be able to set up some dead quiet custom fan curves for when you're not gaming without too many issues. Especially since the gpu has the zero frozr technology as well.

 

[doraymon]

You should be able to set up some dead quiet custom fan curves for when you're not gaming without too many issues. Especially since the gpu has the zero frozr technology as well.

Errrr, I wouldn't know how to do that. I guess I have a long google session ahead.
Thanks for the hint though.

 

[muski]

Very interesting, I am actually looking for a budget network player with Optical out and Ethernet to connect to my Dave (the Roon core will sit elsewhere).
This would allow me to avoid using my massive desktop PC as a Roon endpoint.
Using an optical connection to Dave I don't care about mains related noise and I trust that the jitter will be properly handled by the Dave. The only issue I have is the loudness of my big PC. Although it's liquid cooled when the main fan spins fast it is extremely noisy, not compatible with critical listening.

That's why I'd like to consider a small, cheap streamer with Ethernet connection and optical out.

The most budget-friendly would be a Raspberry Pi with a HiFiBerry Digi+ board. It has optical out. And no need to pay extra for a galvanically isolated board. I have a couple that I use this setup with a pair of Devialet Phantoms. Sounds and works great. And no fans. You might find an upgraded power supply can improve sound.

If Raspberry Pi is too IT-DIY, another idea would be to find a used Squeezebox SB3. They have optical out, too. And you get a display! (Amazing how Slimdevices were so ahead of their time). I still have a couple of Transporters that I mean to sell. Absolutely loved them back in the day.

Cheers,
muski

 

[adrianm]

Errrr, I wouldn't know how to do that. I guess I have a long google session ahead.
Thanks for the hint though.

Np, pm me if you need help

 

[doraymon]

I have finally gotten round to listen to the AQ jitterbug, as a quest to understand where the RF noise problems from the source was coming from - via the mains or the USB.

Firstly - very much - YMWV as RF noise is a funny thing and source noise may affect other parts of the system, so the findings here may well be different in other circumstances.

So I did the tests with just a Win 10 lap-top (jRiver), Dave and pair of Nighthawks, in a hotel in Singapore. The idea was to try to evaluate whether the SQ improvements I heard when disconnecting the lap-top from mains and running off battery was from the USB connection or via the mains supply. Now Dave is galvanically isolated from LF and RF noise, and this makes a huge difference in SQ. But the galvanic isolation is not perfect as there exists a 2pF coupling capacitance. Now you may think 2pF is nothing to worry about; but at 1 GHz it is nearly 80 ohms impedance, so RF noise in the GHz will couple through - and I know that GHz noise is significant in causing noise floor modulation and hence changing the sound quality.

I used my design lap-top, an MSI Intel i7 machine, as it will be noisier than my music lap-top (HP Pavilion) which is very power efficient. This is so it would be easier to hear any changes.

So adding the Audioquest Jitter Bug did indeed improve SQ - it was fairly easy to hear it, with it sounding smoother, warmer, with less sibilance and glare. Instrument separation and focus was better. These are exactly the kind of change I hear with lower RF noise, so it was not unexpected.

Next was to do the listening test with the lap-top on batteries - and then it became impossible to reliably hear the effect of the jitter bug. Additionally, the improvements heard were much smaller with the jitter bug connected when you disconnect the lap-top power. Here is a rough assessment of SQ performance with 100% for best, 0% for worst:

Lap-top battery power, no jitter bug 100%
Lap-top battery power with jitter bug 100%
Lap-top mains power with jitter bug 75%
Lap-top mains power no jitter bug 0%

So what does this tell us? Basically the most significant path of RF is residual coupling via the USB, not via the mains supply as the jitterbug alone gets you most of the way.

Use the jitter bug for mains powered USB sources - it is worth the small cost.

The best sound is still with a Win 10 lap-top on battery and for critical listening that is what I do. Battery operation and Dave's galvanic isolation means effectively perfect RF noise isolation from the source.

Note also Win 10 is technically better than iOS xx, Android or Linux as these driver less USB's do not guarantee bit perfect data at the DAC; but Chord's Win driver does resend faulty packets, so we can guarantee bit perfect data for Dave. It would be interesting to do a listening test of driver less against Win.

Rob

A change of country, home, computer etc... pushed me to look again into the best possible setup to feed my Dave.
I am running Roon on my main desktop PC (Windows 10) and have the possibility to feed the Dave through either optical or USB.

So, following up from this old post of yours, the question would be:

How does the Lap-top mains power via OPT compare with Lap-top battery power via USB and Lap-top mains power via USB with jitter bug?

 

[Triode User]

A change of country, home, computer etc... pushed me to look again into the best possible setup to feed my Dave.
I am running Roon on my main desktop PC (Windows 10) and have the possibility to feed the Dave through either optical or USB.

So, following up from this old post of yours, the question would be:

How does the Lap-top mains power via OPT compare with Lap-top battery power via USB and Lap-top mains power via USB with jitter bug?

Your post says 'best possible' set up and yet each of your options mentions lap top. It might be worth trying a dedicated streamer/server . . . . at least if you listen to one then you will have tried it.

 

[adrianm]

A change of country, home, computer etc... pushed me to look again into the best possible setup to feed my Dave.
I am running Roon on my main desktop PC (Windows 10) and have the possibility to feed the Dave through either optical or USB.

So, following up from this old post of yours, the question would be:

How does the Lap-top mains power via OPT compare with Lap-top battery power via USB and Lap-top mains power via USB with jitter bug?

I'm willing to bet you can't distinguish them in a blind a/b test. And you can throw a Desktop with and without the Jitterbug in for good measure. In all my testing Optical was the way to go (but not by a lot), with the usb laptop on battery and "noisy" desktop usb + jitterbug indistinguishable from each other in careful listening. Maybe the jitterbug made a small difference with the desktop (which is also plugged into the same mains filter as Dave,not sure if that matters), but 0 differences with the laptop.
It's been 3 weeks since then and i'll probably revisit this soon just for fun.

 

[doraymon]

Your post says 'best possible' set up and yet each of your options mentions lap top. It might be worth trying a dedicated streamer/server . . . . at least if you listen to one then you will have tried it.

I was indeed expecting this comment to come. Definitely something to try but tough times now, I'm not sure I can afford anything more expensive than a Node 2i...

 

[doraymon]

I'm willing to bet you can't distinguish them in a blind a/b test. And you can throw a Desktop with and without the Jitterbug in for good measure. In all my testing Optical was the way to go (but not by a lot), with the usb laptop on battery and "noisy" desktop usb + jitterbug indistinguishable from each other in careful listening. Maybe the jitterbug made a small difference with the desktop (which is also plugged into the same mains filter as Dave,not sure if that matters), but 0 differences with the laptop.
It's been 3 weeks since then and i'll probably revisit this soon just for fun.

I did an A/B test with my desktop on mains, OPT vs USB (w/o Jitterbug) but not blind.
The most noticeable difference was that optical felt more immersive (3D), airy (like space between instruments) and bass more snappy.
Also, on many tracks on USB I felt the need to lower the volume while this never happens with optical. But this could be only due to different gain between the two paths on Dave?
I ordered a jitterbug just to check it out.

 

[Triode User]

I was indeed expecting this comment to come. Definitely something to try but tough times now, I'm not sure I can afford anything more expensive than a Node 2i...

I have a Node 2i which I use as a Roon endpoint going into a Qutest. I like the 2i as a streamer but it gets even better with an outboard power supply . . .

 

[iamoneagain]

I did an A/B test with my desktop on mains, OPT vs USB (w/o Jitterbug) but not blind.
The most noticeable difference was that optical felt more immersive (3D), airy (like space between instruments) and bass more snappy.
Also, on many tracks on USB I felt the need to lower the volume while this never happens with optical. But this could be only due to different gain between the two paths on Dave?
I ordered a jitterbug just to check it out.

This is about same results I get when I compared optical to USB. The weird thing is I heard different results between 2 optical cables. I did further testing and one them changed the soundstage making vocals more prominent. It narrowed the width and had a little more depth. The cheap one kept the same soundstage as the usb but has the airy sound and snappier bass. I preferred the cheap one because it seemed more balanced and soundstage sounded more natural.

I’ve been looking into something else than the Mac mini though. Seeing that with optical the master clock would be the Mac mini, not the Dave. So wouldn’t it make sense to have a device with a better clock? Jitter doesn’t matter with the Dave but wouldn’t the master clock? Also wasn’t sure if something with a coax or bnc would be a good idea? But thought that could bring in RFI. But seeing these raspberry pi based roon endpoint with hifi add on with these options.

What would be a good roon endpoint solution? Looked at Node 2i but it included built in dac, which wouldn’t be using, so why pay extra for that. But do like idea of easy setup one box solution.

 

[AndrewOld]

So wouldn’t it make sense to have a device with a better clock? Jitter doesn’t matter with the Dave but wouldn’t the master clock?

Only if you don’t trust the DAVE to deal with jitter as well as Rob Watts says it does.

If you are looking for a Roon/UPnP endpoint with just USB out the Stack Audio Link II may have some merit. Lots of attention to low noise power supplies, clean USB etc. No disc drives, no noisy powerful processors. Seems quite a nice product, and would probably look good with a DAVE, but I haven’t tried it.

https://stackaudio.co.uk/link2/

 

[iamoneagain]

Only if you don’t trust the DAVE to deal with jitter as well as Rob Watts says it does.

If you are looking for a Roon/UPnP endpoint with just USB out the Stack Audio Link II may have some merit. Lots of attention to low noise power supplies, clean USB etc. No disc drives, no noisy powerful processors. Seems quite a nice product, and would probably look good with a DAVE, bit I haven’t tried it.

https://stackaudio.co.uk/link2/

So does the master clock only effect jitter? If that doesn’t matter, then back to where if using optical, source should’t matter.

I’m open to trying a usb source just worried since optical wins in current situation.