CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[AndrewOld]

So does the master clock only effect jitter? If that doesn’t matter, then back to where if using optical, source should’t matter.

I’m open to trying a usb source just worried since optical wins in current situation.

As I understand it, when the source is optical there is a clock-signal embedded in the data and the receiver has to extract this clock signal and use it, so the source is the master, and the receiver is potentially a victim of any variation in the clock signal. Since in the case of a Mac virtually no thought or care will have been given to the quality of that clock signal, it isn’t a very good place to start. However, there are many ways for the receiver to attempt to cope with whatever uncertainty or jitter there is in the clock - ASRC, PLL, DPLL etc. and Rob has said that all his DACs have enormous tolerance to such jitter. Hence me saying that it’s only rational to change your source if you don’t trust your DAVE.

USB doesn’t have an embedded clock in the same way as s/pdif, but there may be other issues when the source is connected to mains. Jitterbug isn’t the answer, as according to Rob all current Chord DACs have adequate filtering/isolation.

If you are an Apple person and have an iPhone then for the cost of a CCK kIt you could try using your iPhone as a battery powered USB source - no mains, no disc drives, very low powered. Not probably a permanent solution but might give you some insights.

 

[doraymon]

Only if you don’t trust the DAVE to deal with jitter as well as Rob Watts says it does.

If you are looking for a Roon/UPnP endpoint with just USB out the Stack Audio Link II may have some merit. Lots of attention to low noise power supplies, clean USB etc. No disc drives, no noisy powerful processors. Seems quite a nice product, and would probably look good with a DAVE, but I haven’t tried it.

https://stackaudio.co.uk/link2/

Interesting, it would be good to hear it.
Today though I would not go for a streamer which doesn't give me the option of a toslink out.
I have never found a setup where USB sounded better than optical. In the best case, with a battery powered source they sounded similar.
That's obviously only my experience.

 

[AndrewOld]

Interesting, it would be good to hear it.
Today though I would not go for a streamer which doesn't give me the option of a toslink out.
I have never found a setup where USB sounded better than optical. In the best case, with a battery powered source they sounded similar.
That's obviously only my experience.

Maybe you should hang on for the 2Yu/2Go.

 

[iamoneagain]

As I understand it, when the source is optical there is a clock-signal embedded in the data and the receiver has to extract this clock signal and use it, so the source is the master, and the receiver is potentially a victim of any variation in the clock signal. Since in the case of a Mac virtually no thought or care will have been given to the quality of that clock signal, it isn’t a very good place to start. However, there are many ways for the receiver to attempt to cope with whatever uncertainty or jitter there is in the clock - ASRC, PLL, DPLL etc. and Rob has said that all his DACs have enormous tolerance to such jitter. Hence me saying that it’s only rational to change your source if you don’t trust your DAVE.

USB doesn’t have an embedded clock in the same way as s/pdif, but there may be other issues when the source is connected to mains. Jitterbug isn’t the answer, as according to Rob all current Chord DACs have adequate filtering/isolation.

If you are an Apple person and have an iPhone then for the cost of a CCK kIt you could try using your iPhone as a battery powered USB source - no mains, no disc drives, very low powered. Not probably a permanent solution but might give you some insights.

When I had the Hugo 2, I used this method for my work setup. But if found optical out of MacBook Pro laptop sounded better when I used it at home. Same improvement with airier sound and better bass compared to usb. That’s why I picked up Mac mini that could do 192k.

So it seems like all these expensive solutions may not be needed since Rob already takes care of these issues inside the Dave itself. Think I’ll keep options open but just stick with Mac mini until it dies.

Think I’ll bring out laptop again just to test another optical source. Even bough can’t do 192k I only have a handful of Qobuz in that format.

I should note I’m actually going thru mscaler first powered by Poweradd. Think whatever applies for the Dave wold be true for mscaler as well.

 

[AndrewOld]

When I had the Hugo 2, I used this method for my work setup. But if found optical out of Mac Pro laptop sounded better when I used it at home. Same improvement with airier sound and better bass compared to usb. That’s why I picked up Mac mini that could do 192k.

So it seems like all these expensive solutions may not be needed since Rob already takes care of these issues inside the Dave itself. Think I’ll keep options open but just stick with Mac mini until it dies.

Think I’ll bring out laptop again just to test another optical source. Even bough can’t do 192k I only have a handful of Qobuz in that format.

I should note I’m actually going thru mscaler first powered by Poweradd. Think whatever applies for the Dave wold be true for mscaler as well.

I‘m happy enough with USB, though I have a deliberately low-powered netbook/laptop with an SSD that I can run from battery if I’m feeling neurotic. But I also have a Logitech Squeezebox Touch which I’ve tried. It works very well as a Roon endpoint and has optical output to which some thought has been given - separate clocks for 44.1 and 48 k and multiples thereof, and a low-powered processor doing nothing but being an endpoint. You can even run it from batteries. They go for £100 or so second-hand, and you can sell them for what you pay for them, so if you are looking for something to play with you can do a lot worse.

 

[iamoneagain]

Just hooked up MacBook Pro and to my surprise it sounds better than the Mac mini. Soundstage opened up a little bit. The other surprise is the usb sounds the same as the optical. So just tells me Mac mini was a bad choice for an endpoint and usb can sound just as good. It may even sound slightly better than optical after more listening.

So next question would be whether worth it to get dedicated endpoint. I now know there is room for improvement with sources.

 

[iDesign]

Just hooked up MacBook Pro and to my surprise it sounds better than the Mac mini. Soundstage opened up a little bit. The other surprise is the usb sounds the same as the optical. So just tells me Mac mini was a bad choice for an endpoint and usb can sound just as good. It may even sound slightly better than optical after more listening.

So next question would be whether worth it to get dedicated endpoint. I now know there is room for improvement with sources.

If you prefer to run your Mac mini, perhaps Stylus and Uptone’s kit are potential options before going to an expensive server or NUC based solution.
https://uptoneaudio.com/products/mac-mini-dc-conversion-linear-fan-controller-kit-mmk

 

[iamoneagain]

If you prefer to run your Mac mini, perhaps Stylus and Uptohe’s kit are potential options before going to an expensive server or NUC based solution.
https://uptoneaudio.com/products/mac-mini-dc-conversion-linear-fan-controller-kit-mmk

I’m only using Mac mini as an endpoint, so only need to replace with a network bridge type item. I have no plans to continue with Mac mini. Looking for better usb endpoint since MacBook Pro was such big improvement.

 

[iamoneagain]

So think I’m almost ready to pull trigger on Stack Audio Link II. I like the single box idea, it’s under $1000, looks nice, and focused on just having clean usb out.

My MacBook Pro is so old that battery doesn’t even stay charged. That why surprised it sounds better than Mac mini but I guess that usb output is so noisy that even the Dave is affected.

Not sure what differences I expect from the Link II, but don’t think of MacBook as permanent solution and even if sound quality was the same, I’d still be happy to have a dedicated endpoint.

 

[AndrewOld]

So think I’m almost ready to pull trigger on Stack Audio Link II. I like the single box idea, it’s under $1000, looks nice, and focused on just having clean usb out.

My MacBook Pro is so old that battery doesn’t even stay charged. That why surprised it sounds better than Mac mini but I guess that usb output is so noisy that even the Dave is affected.

Not sure what differences I expect from the Link II, but don’t think of MacBook as permanent solution and even if sound quality was the same, I’d still be happy to have a dedicated endpoint.

Hope it works out - would really appreciate it if you let us know how you get on (If you pull the trigger that is!)

 

[adrianm]

I like the single box idea

Single boxes keep adding up

 

[iamoneagain]

Single boxes keep adding up

Well there are some solutions where need optical converter, plus bridge and separate power supplies, now have 4 boxes. Or some that are over $4,000. This one box at least would just replace laptop. So nothing new.

 

[doraymon]

So think I’m almost ready to pull trigger on Stack Audio Link II. I like the single box idea, it’s under $1000, looks nice, and focused on just having clean usb out.

My MacBook Pro is so old that battery doesn’t even stay charged. That why surprised it sounds better than Mac mini but I guess that usb output is so noisy that even the Dave is affected.

Not sure what differences I expect from the Link II, but don’t think of MacBook as permanent solution and even if sound quality was the same, I’d still be happy to have a dedicated endpoint.

No optical out though

 

[iamoneagain]

No optical out though

That’s fine. Current setup is proving that usb actually sounds better than optical. It’s good to have options but like that focus is just on usb.

 

[ekfc63]

Single boxes keep adding up

Tell me about it. My two channel speakers are running active which results in 6 boxes just for the amplifier......