[thomaskong78]

That concern is one of the reasons I haven't picked up a Dave yet.

I want gear that inspires emotion, not analysis. Where you just get lost in the music and aren't focused or have attention called to details and transparency.

I'd be interested in knowing folks who do/do not have that emotion with Dave (owned, auditioned, returned). The case where you just turn on whatever you want to listen to, the music just sounds right, and you let the music take you away (or not, if the music doesn't move you).

You can tame Dave and HMS ( I do not recommend Dave without HMS) to full and round sound.

The main advantage of Dave is transparent 3D holographic soundstage.

It also works well with headphones.

The sound from Stax009s, Carbon Amp, Dave and HMS combination leave nothing to be desired with musical nuanced details and decent dynamics.

But If you are looking for rush and emotional sound, I recommend you to try Formular XHD or lower model, Lampiziatior Pacific or Golden Gate.

Those warm sounding Dac may work well with speakers but not with headphones

They can sound too soft with headphones.

 

[ecwl]

That concern is one of the reasons I haven't picked up a Dave yet.

I want gear that inspires emotion, not analysis. Where you just get lost in the music and aren't focused or have attention called to details and transparency.

The only times when I've heard DAVE sound bright or too analytical is when we are listening to really horrible recordings (and I mean they have to be really, really horrible) or when the speakers or headphones were bright to begin with (as in on objective measurements, you can see that their treble frequency response is often on the higher/louder end).

And often, I've found that people get so attached to their favorite speakers or headphones that would normally sound bright with neutral electronics that they specifically chose equipments that tamp down that brightness that are not neutral.

Obviously, I haven't listened to everyone's system so it's hard for me to comment on every scenario. But at least that's my general experience from listening to my DAVE, moving my DAVE around to various people's systems or Head-Fi meets and from my dealer's DAVE paired with various speakers of his.

 

[JaZZ]

You can easily tame brightness in an imperfect system (via equalizer – mandatory anyway if you want to maximize sound quality with any real-world sound transducer), but you can't restore lost transparency. So I would choose the most transparent and resolving DAC by all means. That is, if you want a sound close to the original, not a romanticized version of it.

 

[Deano1974]

Hmm.. I may need to reset expectations a bit lower: This is an update to some old DAVE vibration control posts. Now to include the HMS.

I find it hard to understand why hewn-from-rock products like DAVE or HMS could benefit from vibration control. They have thick enclosures, no moving parts, no large transformers, and I don't have loudspeakers to excite the room foundations.
So what is there left to vibrate? I don't know, but I've found that tweaks in this area can make incremental improvements, albeit in infuriatingly unpredicable ways. Price is no guarantee to success.

My DAVE sits on Black Ravioli footers, and my HMS sits on Clearlight RDC 4 cones. Both are reasonably priced compared to some Audiophool products.
I'm sure there are better sounding footers out there, but the Black Ravioli's in particular are a great match for DAVE because they are small, neat, kind to furniture and very stable because they can be stuck on (and this last point is why I'm not able to try them on my HMS - instead I dug out the old RDC cones from my spares box).

As examples of unpredictability, I heard no improvements to DAVE when using the more expensive HRS Nimbus footers, or the frighteningly expensive HRS Vortex footers.
And the RDC cones made no noticeable difference when they were cone-side up under my HMS, but did make a difference when cone-side down. Go figure.

What both these footers did was add a subtle touch of clarity/focus/dynamics to the sound. But neither of them did much to give a weightier, more solid presentation that some of us search for.
But HRS damping plates did just that. I started with the smallest DP II, which almost perfectly fits on top of DAVE's LHS. And the black finish almost perfectly matches my black DAVE. But the weighter sound came with some compromises - some over-smooothing, a loss of air and sparkle.

I later tried the thicker (and of course more expensive) DPX plates. These were well worth it. Even more weight and body, but now there was no loss in detail/air/sparkle - it was all there, just presented in a smoother, more natural manner.
Apart from cost, the main downside of the DPX is that it looks clumsier than the slim DP II on DAVE.

When the HMS arrived, I tried the now-spare DP II, but this didn't do much to SQ. But then the DPX gave the same improvement to HMS as it did to DAVE. Because the HMS surface area is so much greater, I could move around the DPX plate and did find that position subtly matters. So I currently have the DPX on the HMS and DPII on DAVE. And am considering trying a larger DPX on HMS to free up the small DPX to go back onto DAVE.

So, are these footers and damping plates worth it, as I keep saying how subtle the differences are?
In the contect of a 5-figure cost hifi system, then yes I think so, particularly if you are searching for that weighter, more natural sound.
But this area is so unpredicatble that I recommend a try-before-buy, or at least a dealer with a good returns policy.

Note that the HRS products are much better value in their home US than they are in the UK.
Note also, that both damping plates and footers will obstruct some of DAVE's ventilation holes. I've never noticed any difference in DAVE's enclosure temperature, but those in hotter climates should take extra care to leave DAVE at least in standby mode when not in use. On the plus side, the extra height of the footers will increase ventilation from below.

Thanks for the info, can you please post pictures of what the Dave and HMS look like with the isolation products

Cheers

Deano

 

[audio_1]

Point 100
There is nothing to criticize over MSB Select II except its high price around 100K$.
It has magical relaxed texture similar to top grade vinyl.

Dynamics, details, soundstage are all excellent.


Otherwise, I expect to use Chord Dave and Mscaler for 3 years or longer.

I open the possibility of upgrading to excellent music server like SGM Extreme in the near future.

It is physically impossible for the MSB Select DAC to sound better than the Chord Dave and Mscaler / Blu2 on 44.1 kHz material imho. Providing that RF hygiene has been taken care of with Ferrites or Wave cables. The MSB select DAC doesn't upsample, so transient reconstruction and timing are compromised. At the Munich show this year, the MSB Select DAC sounded slow and ponderous with very little emotional involvement with the Music. The Select DAC is very smooth sounding, perhaps like analogue, but not live music. It was partnered with MSB's new power amps and Magico M6 loudspeakers. It may have been the amplifiers or cables, it definitely was not the Magico M6 loudspeakers. They sounded great in the Soulution and Total Dac rooms. This was my assessment at the show. I have since seen 2 posts on What's best forum, that agree with my assessment. When the Dave and Mscaler or Blu2 are setup correctly, the sound quality is unique and not possible with conventional dacs. The timing, dynamics and prat, that leads to a foot tapping listening experience and puts a smile on your face are incredible. I have heard the Dave sound like this in 3 setups, but never any MSB or other dacs. Unfortunately, not in my own system at the moment as I an waiting on new loudspeakers. If your system doesn't time, you will never hear this.

 

[dac64]

Thanks for the info, can you please post pictures of what the Dave and HMS look like with the isolation products

Cheers

Deano

Sure!

 

[Christer]

Sure!

Nice Yoga pose. I know from long experience that the headstand is good for me.
But I did not know it is good for my Qutest and HMS too.
Do they need much time to learn this?
I remember it took me more than a few attemps before I mastered it myself many years ago.
Creative thinking.
I'll remember this for the tropics this coming winter.Both could get very hot indeed last winter when temperatures reached 34-35C. With the hot heart chakra of HMS facing up, heat dissipation will surely work much better in the headstand pose.
Cheers CC

 

[TheAttorney]

Thanks for the info, can you please post pictures of what the Dave and HMS look like with the isolation products

Deano

Here are some photos showing thick and thin damper plates on DAVE and HMS. The black finish is almost identical to DAVE's, as is the depth.
The Black Ravioli footers are too subtle to photograph properly - I don't think anyone would ever guess that there were audiophile footers under this DAVE.
These are about 2mm higher than stock.
The Clearlights are quite a bit higher than that - there are 2 at the back of the HMS and 1 at the front approximately in the middle.

 

[BassicScience]

When the Dave and Mscaler or Blu2 are setup correctly, the sound quality is unique and not possible with conventional dacs. The timing, dynamics and prat, that leads to a foot tapping listening experience and puts a smile on your face are incredible. I have heard the Dave sound like this in 3 setups, but never any MSB or other dacs. Unfortunately, not in my own system at the moment as I an waiting on new loudspeakers. If your system doesn't time, you will never hear this.

I understand fanboy enthusiasm, but stating that your setup is the only one capable of rendering music with compelling rhythmic drive is beyond silly.

 

[jlbrach]

is that a pair of susvara's being driven directly from the dave????

 

[audio_1]

I understand fanboy enthusiasm, but stating that your setup is the only one capable of rendering music with compelling rhythmic drive is beyond silly.

I actually said that my system wasn't able to. Please reread my post.

 

[thomaskong78]

is that a pair of susvara's being driven directly from the dave????

Dave has only 2 watts output.

Susvara needs at least 20 watts for full dynamics.

Thus you may try Dave on Susvara with only low volume.

 

[jlbrach]

Susvara most definitely does not require 50 watts but the Dave alone is not up to the task. I currently use the formula s powerman combo and it is outstanding

 

[thomaskong78]

Chord Dave and HMS is very good for the money although not better than MSB Select II as claimed by Fanboys here.

The nice thing of Chord Dave and HMS is transparent and 3D soundstage which matches MSB Select II in soundstage.

But if falls short of MSB Select II in dynamics and relaxed analog like texture.


Impression after spending 30 hours on Stax 009S and KGSSHV Carbon made by loligagger.


I am using Jays Audio CDT2 MK2 to connect to Lyngdorf 2170 for digital equalization and then to Mscaler and Dave.


Sablon Panatella BNC digital cables between Mscaler and Dave and Zenwave D4 from transport to Lyngdorf and Silnote Morpheus II from Lyngdorf to Mscaler.


From Dave to Carbon, I use Analysis Plus XLR cable.


After 20 hours of use and I had Stax and Carbon compared with my 2 channel system Lansche 4.1(plasma tweeter) driven by Line Magnetic 508 SET (Amperex 6SL7, 1944 Sylvania vt231 Nos tubes, Psavne Acme 805 and 300B tubes).

My 2 channel system go deeper to 20Hz with better dynamics and deeper soundstage.

Also my 2 channel system presents slightly more transparency and details.


Stax and Carbon sounds more intimate but with more realistic focus while the soundstage width are comparable.

With no eq, Stax and Carbon sounds very dynamic and no weakness of bass except sub 30Hz bass of organ.

It has a round texture with nuanced details neither hot or bright.

It is very musical and enjoyable.

I had done some experiment on equalization with Lyngdorf 2170.

With gradual eq of 2db up at 7khz and 3 db at 15khz, Stax and Carbon sounds more open and transparent.


I had paid 60K$ for my speaker and SET amplifier including the cost of tube rolling.

Stax009S and Carbon costs me 6500$ used ( Stax009S were 4 months old and Carbon amp is less than one month old, they looks like new one 9-10 condition).


I prefer my 2 channel system to Stax009S and Carbon on overall dynamics and more 3 D holographic soundstage.

But Stax009S and Carbon sounds so musical and nuanced with decent dynamics that I can enjoy music with windows open during summer time not to disturb my neighbors.


If I had got KGSSHV Carbon Ground Grid amplifier, there would be more room to tune the sound through tube rolling, but I am happy as is.

I expect to spend 60/40 time between my 2 channel and headphone system.

Thus after equalization using Lyngdorf 2170, Stax009S and KGSSHV Carbon headphone system perfectly fit my needs.

Thomas

 

[iDesign]

Chord Dave and HMS is very good for the money although not better than MSB Select II as claimed by Fanboys here.

The nice thing of Chord Dave and HMS is transparent and 3D soundstage which matches MSB Select II in soundstage.

But if falls short of MSB Select II in dynamics and relaxed analog like texture.


Impression after spending 30 hours on Stax 009S and KGSSHV Carbon made by loligagger.


I am using Jays Audio CDT2 MK2 to connect to Lyngdorf 2170 for digital equalization and then to Mscaler and Dave.


Sablon Panatella BNC digital cables between Mscaler and Dave and Zenwave D4 from transport to Lyngdorf and Silnote Morpheus II from Lyngdorf to Mscaler.


From Dave to Carbon, I use Analysis Plus XLR cable.


After 20 hours of use and I had Stax and Carbon compared with my 2 channel system Lansche 4.1(plasma tweeter) driven by Line Magnetic 508 SET (Amperex 6SL7, 1944 Sylvania vt231 Nos tubes, Psavne Acme 805 and 300B tubes).

My 2 channel system go deeper to 20Hz with better dynamics and deeper soundstage.

Also my 2 channel system presents slightly more transparency and details.


Stax and Carbon sounds more intimate but with more realistic focus while the soundstage width are comparable.

With no eq, Stax and Carbon sounds very dynamic and no weakness of bass except sub 30Hz bass of organ.

It has a round texture with nuanced details neither hot or bright.

It is very musical and enjoyable.

I had done some experiment on equalization with Lyngdorf 2170.

With gradual eq of 2db up at 7khz and 3 db at 15khz, Stax and Carbon sounds more open and transparent.


I had paid 60K$ for my speaker and SET amplifier including the cost of tube rolling.

Stax009S and Carbon costs me 6500$ used ( Stax009S were 4 months old and Carbon amp is less than one month old, they looks like new one 9-10 condition).


I prefer my 2 channel system to Stax009S and Carbon on overall dynamics and more 3 D holographic soundstage.

But Stax009S and Carbon sounds so musical and nuanced with decent dynamics that I can enjoy music with windows open during summer time not to disturb my neighbors.


If I had got KGSSHV Carbon Ground Grid amplifier, there would be more room to tune the sound through tube rolling, but I am happy as is.

I expect to spend 60/40 time between my 2 channel and headphone system.

Thus after equalization using Lyngdorf 2170, Stax009S and KGSSHV Carbon headphone system perfectly fit my needs.

Thomas

How can you possibly interpret how other people perceive sound or understand their individual preferences enough to generalize that the MSB Select is better let alone suggest someone who prefers one or the other is a “fanboy?”