[halloweenman]

thanks ecwl, i tried audirvana with apple low shelf filter audio unit and it just killed the music. i'll try jriver.

 

[ecwl]

thanks ecwl, i tried audirvana with apple low shelf filter audio unit and it just killed the music. i'll try jriver.

I think this is what I meant. I don't think Audirvana killed the music because you were using a low-shelf filter. I think it killed the music because you over-corrected for the bass peak with the low-shelf filter. So you might have reduced the 40Hz peak let's say but incidentally, you have also reduced your bass output between say 20-35Hz and 42-48Hz. The solution is to measure it so that you can accurately remove the specific problematic frequencies without touching the non-problematic frequencies. There is no good way of doing that without the proper measurement tools. Considering the cost of Chord DAVE, the price of a USB microphone and the time spent learning Room EQ Wizard is probably super worth it.

 

[JaZZ]

  I'm a very happy Chord DAVE DAC owner of approximately 4 months and was wondering how fellow DAVE owners have it connected to their speakers.
 
I have been primarily connecting it in DAC mode running through my Music First Audio Classic MKII Passive Transformer pre-amplifier as I still listen to vinyl and during a short A-B of the DAVE in DAC v Pre-amplifier found I lost some dynamics with the DAVE using its pre-amplifier.
 
I understand this is counter intuitive as the DAVE in pre-amplifier mode should be more direct, however my MFA pre-amplifier is as neutral as you can get, I will do more exhaustive A-B listening in the immediate future, however was wondering how other DAVE owners had configured it in their speaker setup?

 
I don't listen to speakers (anymore), so can't offer any ideas. But since you mentioned your transformer-based passive «pre-amp», you should be aware that transformers like that generate harmonic distortion – they aren't really «as neutral as it gets». Those will most likely be the cause of the perceived additional «dynamics».

 

[pkcpga]

thanks rkt31, the speakers are pretty much already fully toed in, firing to just behind the listening position. the eq really is a last resort as i have tried pretty much everything now.

Have you tried just moving the speakers a few more inches away from the wall or making sure they are sturdy on the ground or stand.

 

[Rob Watts]

 Please at which value in ns do you estimate that LF drifts or LF jitter are audible ?
Just curious since I am used to deal with them in non audio applications (Telecom).
Thanks.
Rgds.

 
Take a look at the J-test plot from Dave:

 
You can see the skirting at the bottom as the 12 kHz tone merges into the noise floor. So at -160 dB its a spread of about +/- 20 Hz. This level is about 1 pS of 20 Hz low freq jitter. Unfortunately, the APX 555 test equipment itself creates skirts - due to the ADC and the FFT windowing function, and its dominated by this rather than Dave.
 
In terms of skirting being audible, then if it gets measurably worse than this, then I have in the past (only just) heard it as it sounding brighter. Its very curious that such small low frequency jitter is audible and that it sounds like noise floor modulation. Of course it looks a bit like noise floor modulation, but only around the actual signal; normal noise floor modulation is the whole noise floor 20 Hz to 20 kHz pumping up and down.
 
Rob

 

[Arpiben]

Rob Watts
Many thanks for the precious information.
Once Davina will be ready, do you think we can still improve Dave's general performance? Probably my nonsense, but I was wondering if by knowing Davina's signature or Transfer function, Dave could push even further its limits.
Regards.

 

[rkt31]

@halloweenman, try placing speakers away from wall and you can even put foam bungs in the bass ports of speakers. i have kef r300 and had to put foam bung in the rear bass ports to match with my monitor audio rsw12 sub crossover. the results were much more tight bass and better focus.

 

[halloweenman]

hi ecwl i measured it both with my ears and level meter and using usb microphone and room eq wizard and all agreed the 45hz bump. i will try what you suggest with eq and q value once i get the correction data from room eq wizard.

does it matter which plugin\audio unit you use or are they all the same sound quality?

 

[halloweenman]

rjt31 and pkcpga the speakers are sealed design and already placed best i can. changing placement does not seem to resolve problem. i have 3 solid brick walls out of 4 leaving very little area for the bass to be absorbed.

 

[halloweenman]

rob watts, would there be any benefit in including an eq feature in the dac itself, such as low shelf filter, so that those with room bass boom issues could optimise sound? or would this distroy transparancy and sq?

 

[DaveRedRef-III]

I'm a very happy Chord DAVE DAC owner of approximately 4 months and was wondering how fellow DAVE owners have it connected to their speakers.

I have been primarily connecting it in DAC mode running through my Music First Audio Classic MKII Passive Transformer pre-amplifier as I still listen to vinyl and during a short A-B of the DAVE in DAC v Pre-amplifier found I lost some dynamics with the DAVE using its pre-amplifier.

I understand this is counter intuitive as the DAVE in pre-amplifier mode should be more direct, however my MFA pre-amplifier is as neutral as you can get, I will do more exhaustive A-B listening in the immediate future, however was wondering how other DAVE owners had configured it in their speaker setup?

Watermad
Some of the following, you may have already done so I apologise in advance If it sounds like I am trying to teach my grandmother how to suck eggs.
I have the MFA Baby Reference MkII but I do not use it with Dave. Another set of interconnects and a passive pre-amp (albeit possibly the worlds best analogue preamp) in the chain will inevitably degrade the sound given the level DAVE works at. Given your experience I would guess the following may be an issue:

a) you may have a grounding or hum problem with your electrics. The baby reference has two ground lifts, one for 'in' connections and one for 'out'. My system (pre ownership of DAVE) was greatly improved with these lifts and, as Rob always predicts, my sound became warmer and more natural when when using these ground lifts. This was a sure sign i had problems with my electrics and I suspect you may have a similar problem. I tested this further with a single Isotek 'Synchro' mains lead feeding my Chord SPM1200 MkII power amp with the MFA in the chain and ground lifted. (The Synchro is no ordinary mains lead. It cancels mains hum.) Sure enough the dynamic change, particularly speed, was startling. I then went on to purchase another Synchro and Isotek Sigmas to cover my whole system. This brings us on to b)

b) Isolation:
I use VertexAQ platforms and Stillpoints for my isolation. Why both?, because ground based vibration is just one of the problems. CD players, hard disk sources etc create their own vibrations and music creates airborne vibrations too. The stillpoints provide an anchor of sorts for these later vibration problems. Last week in a post here I highlighted the degradation caused by thin metal sheets used as bottom plates underneath my CD player and power amp. They shimmer. Anyway the great thing about DAVE is the better you sort you electrics and improve your isolation the better DAVE sounds. In the old days, much of the above hid the weakness in our dac sound and we were glad of it!

 

[DaveRedRef-III]

Btw guys, here is a wacky tip which I found out by accident. If you have a pretty live room, in regards to reflections, try putting 3 coats of Farrow and Ball paint on the walls.

It won't do as much as serious room acoustic treatment or a heavy wallpaper but there is so much 'chalk' in their paint it does help calm the brightness down a little.

 

[watermad]

Hi Dave Red Ref,
Thanks for the feedback, I checkout your profile and you have a well sorted system, some similarities to mine, albeit more advanced, Sonus Faber speakers and MFA passive pre!
 
Yes I have used isolation, imported an audio rack from South Africa, decoupled design, they are out of business now I think, Soundations. I also have Nordost SortFut feet on the rack, and Track Audio isolation feet on my speakers, however my electrics with ground loop maybe an issue as the MFA takes hum out of the equation. I do have dedicated audiophile power cords and power extensions though.
 
Your MFA Baby MKII is a rung above my Classic MKIIm did you ever A-B it against the DAVE in pre mode?
 
I take it you don't listen to vinyl, I have a large collection so would have to find a decent phono to digital converter, as a lot of my music hasn't been re-leased on CD or available as a download .
 
Regards
David

 

[ubs28]

rob watts, would there be any benefit in including an eq feature in the dac itself, such as low shelf filter, so that those with room bass boom issues could optimise sound? or would this distroy transparancy and sq?

Why honestly? You have specialized companies who design EQ's very good.

Also some speakers have EQ's. It is not the job of the DAC to correct for the room.

 

[Rob Watts]

rob watts, would there be any benefit in including an eq feature in the dac itself, such as low shelf filter, so that those with room bass boom issues could optimise sound? or would this distroy transparancy and sq?

The honest answer is I am not sure. I have designed DSP bi-quads to go into chips before, and it is a challenge to get right. IIR bi-quads use tiny coefficients (for bass) in a continuous loop that is constantly truncated, so low level distortion can easily become a major issue.Given that Dave works to a digital domain accuracy of 350dB, in order to make each module transparent, then this is certainly a challenge to keep this level of performance. It certainly suggests why some people prefer different EQ software. So my advice is to try it and if its better for you, run with it. But don't make the assumption that because its digital it will be perfectly transparent.
 
Rob