[Beolab]

We got Trolls here in the woods up north, but i did not know they where interested in HiFi ?


To keep it short:

The DAVE vs Select II i can not say that either is better than the other from my listenings, its more down to your own taste.

The Select II sounds very spacious, with great musicality and dynamics, big soundstage, is very exact in its performance like a true precision instrument, and got a great 3D feeling to it, whereas the DAVE got the same tools in the Toolbox, but got better transparency slight better depth, that can be appreciated of some. The MSB is a little smoother in the upper end with great blackness so the details are very well presented, but in the turn you got slightly less transparency.
One observation for example is:
With DAVE i can here a very fine "rasp distortion" in the recording when it comes the tonal overlays in the mixing from the Studio, but with the Select II it is harder to here them, they are there but more subtle, so here is one proof of transparency.

So maybe in the long term the MSB is slight more forgiving less bright, but can feel a little dry in the upper mids from time to time , and the DAVE is just brutal honest to the source, but not veil or bright. It is a fine line here.

It is a slight different presentation in the tone flavour and dynamics in my opinion, but in a blind test i think not many in here should distinguish which one they are listening to, it is that close.

I would say it is a matter of taste, and you should listen to them both if money is not an object.

 

[miketlse]

I have a few questions.

Is the price difference between the Hugo and Dave worth it? There are regular posts on this thread, from people who own the Hugo, or Hugo TT, or Mojo, who audition the DAVE out of curiousity, and then are immediately convinced of the need to order a DAVE straight away. That tells me enough, that I too am curious to hear the DAVE in action, but I am nervous about how I might react next. Only you can decide about the value for money.

Will there be a Dave 2 in a few years? How do you suppose that us mere mortals will know that? Prerequisites for Chord will be that DAVE 1 sold enough units to demonstrate that there is a profitable market niche, and for Rob Watts to believe that updating DAVE 1 will expand the boundary of music enjoyment. 

Does it pair well with the Auralic Taurus MKII?

How does the Chord Dave compare to other high end DAC's in the $10.000+ segment? Read the thread - many people post that DAVE beats all rivals, some others prefer the sound signature of other dacs. This is similar to many other threads for other equipment. Ultimately these threads can provide opinions/preferences about equipment, that is helpful when you are deciding which equipment to demo, but then only you can make the final decision as to which you prefer to buy. 

Are the HD 650, HD 800 and HD 800 S good enough or is the resolution of such headphones not good enough to hear all the quality of the Chord Dave?

Is the Chord Dave good enough to be used in high end speaker setups? The consensus seems to be yes, but several posters state that they prefer using headphones. Again you need to demo.

 

[pkcpga]

I have a few questions.

Is the price difference between the Hugo and Dave worth it?

Will there be a Dave 2 in a few years?

Does it pair well with the Auralic Taurus MKII?

How does the Chord Dave compare to other high end DAC's in the $10.000+ segment?

It has its own sound signature which I'm biased to and love but I'd recommend adding it to your short list for demos.

Are the HD 650, HD 800 and HD 800 S good enough or is the resolution of such headphones not good enough to hear all the quality of the Chord Dave?

I use it with the hd800 and it matches very well.

Is the Chord Dave good enough to be used in high end speaker setups?

I use the Dave with nautilus speakers with naim preamp and amps and love the combo, it definitely shed some new light on these speakers verse my more expensive Linn DAC which it easily replaced.

Does the Chord Dave work with IEM's? (no hiss?)

I have no hiss with my IEM's but it is a more forward DAC so bright IEM's plus the Dave might not be everyone's taste.

 

[ubs28]

Thanks for all the information. Hopefully I should have the Chord Dave soon and then I'll test it out. Perhaps I'll throw in the Utopa and Elear in the mix if I have them in at the same time. 
 
Hopefully the Dave and the Utopia will not blow me away because else it will be an expensive month. 

 

[bmichels]

...It does not sound bright at all, with the right tubes on the BHSE and the right cables. 

what exactly do you recommend as "right tubes and right" cables ?   I know that very soon I will want to tune-up my BHSE

 

[STR-1]

Right click on the 'post #nnnn' at the top right hand corner of the post, then select the 'copy link address' option.

You can then include this link in your reply, by selecting the 'link' icon, and then pasting the link into the URL box. 

Thanks for that.

 

[miketlse]

  Thanks for all the information. Hopefully I should have the Chord Dave soon and then I'll test it out. Perhaps I'll throw in the Utopa and Elear in the mix if I have them in at the same time. 
 
Hopefully the Dave and the Utopia will not blow me away because else it will be an expensive month. 

 
I predict an expensive month. 

 

[drabbish]

i have seen some people that own a chord dave and berkeley reference dac so they are both quite good on high end 2 channel systems. that says alot since the berkeley is suppose to be one of the better dacs for pcm. the nice thing about the dave it has the headphone amp and usb connector. Also the 6v output is very impressive that is acutally suprisingly hard to find in high end dacs

 

[x RELIC x]

i have seen some people that own a chord dave and berkeley reference dac so they are both quite good on high end 2 channel systems. that says alot since the berkeley is suppose to be one of the better dacs for pcm. the nice thing about the dave it has the headphone amp and usb connector. Also the 6v output is very impressive that is acutally suprisingly hard to find in high end dacs

Actually, even more impressive for transparency, to me, is it has a headphone output from the DAC, not a headphone 'amp' per-se like conventional DAC/amp combos. Rob's designs and Chord's DACs are implemented quite differently because the low noise from the DAC directly allows for this. Yes, I agree, the amount of V out is impressive.

 

[EVOLVIST]

Actually, even more impressive for transparency, to me, is it has a headphone output from the DAC, not a headphone 'amp' per-se like conventional DAC/amp combos. Rob's designs and Chord's DACs are implemented quite differently because the low noise from the DAC directly allows for this. Yes, I agree, the amount of V out is impressive.

I was very impressed that by plugging my HD800s directly into the DAVE, and not using any crossfeed, that I was getting the same width and depth that I would by going balanced into a high-end amp. Getting a balanced-like effect from a singled ended jack, equals a big score for the DAVE!

 

[romaz]

Heard TotalDac and the MSB Select 2 finally. Unfortunately Dave is simply no match and those two are at another level it seems. But Dave, at its price, is really a steal and is probably the best high end DAC today in terms of price/performance ratio. But when it comes to the "money no object" category, Dave still falls short - not because it is not expensive enough, but that the true R2R DAC technology simply wipes the floor with Dave.

Each is entitled to his/her opinion but I would have to agree that many of your comments are very suspect. As a former owner of a TotalDac, please share with me how it wiped the floor with the DAVE? I presume, in your careful analysis, you were able to compare the TotalDac, Select II and DAVE using the same amp, cables, headphones/speakers so that the DACs were the only variable?

Regarding your comment that the Esoteric K-01 is more detailed than the DAVE, I find this comment also to be suspect. I know this CD player well and it is probably the best CD player I have heard. Up until recently, one of my very best audio friends who often assists me with blind testing owned a K-01. It was so good, it replaced his dCS Debussy. The DAVE has since replaced his K-01 and he will tell you it is because he has yet to hear a DAC that can retrieve even the subtlest details from a Redbook file better than the DAVE. This is what it means to be transparent and this is what the DAVE does better than anything I have yet to hear, R2R or otherwise.

I won't argue the charms of the best R2R DACs because they appeal to me as well. Rob has been clear with many of his posts about the inherent limitations of R2R and yet, with the best R2R DACs that I've heard, there is no denying their rich, relaxed and organic presentation. Having spent numerous hours directly comparing my former TotalDac d1-monobloc (TotalDac's best DAC that can directly drive headphones and 2nd best DAC overall) and having personally experienced most of MSB's line including the Select II on 3 separate occasions, these are my general observations of R2R as a class. Against the DAVE, R2Rs sound drier whereas the DAVE sounds more fluid and I have yet to hear an exception to this statement. R2R sounds softer, like DSD can sound relative to PCM, and can indeed result in a more forgiving presentation. Perceived noise floor, to my ears, is about the same and that is to say that both are excellent. Timbre and tone can sometimes be more pleasing with R2R but not necessarily more accurate and this could be due to the softness that I mentioned. Transparency and resolution? This one is easy. DAVE wins. Transparency connotes different things to different people. For 1950s jazz recordings, utter transparency isn't necessarily a good thing. This is where a soft DAC can excel and why it was perhaps a good idea to hang onto grandpa's vintage tube preamp. But what about modern recordings which will only improve further as recording technology improves? Are we to shun the depth of the details in these excellent recordings that will only become more abundant with time just so our bad recordings can sound more listenable?

One last comment and this perhaps a criticism against Chord or at least their U.S. distributor. I will agree that it is sometimes easy to get wowed by a certain product at an audio event based on how well the room was set up and such experiences, even though they represent suboptimal show conditions, can result in an excellent product being overlooked. For example, at THE Show in Newport this year, the Voxativ room was one of the rooms that won best of show and those Voxativs were fed sublimely by a TotalDac. It was also powered by High Fidelity Cables. Obviously, there were a variety of reasons this room sounded so good but IMO, it is the system integrator that gets the credit. The same kudos goes to MSB. At CES, AXPONA, and THE Show this year, MSB had their typical excellent setup that included a pair of YG Sonja speakers and very well implemented acoustical treatments. On top of that, Vince Galbo played an excellent host and was keen enough to specifically select tracks that highlighted the strengths of the Select II. One couldn't help but be impressed. As for the Chord room during these events? I'm sorry to say that with the exception of AXPONA, system integration left much to be desired and the DAVE, IMO, was not presented as well as it deserved to be.

 

[drabbish]

Romaz have u heard the trinity Dac by any chance? I have seen many say it is the finest pcm dac. I know Dave is quit good for pcm just wondered how it was against the best

 

[adyc]

Romaz have u heard the trinity Dac by any chance? I have seen many say it is the finest pcm dac. I know Dave is quit good for pcm just wondered how it was against the best

 
Recently, my friend and I visited a mutual friend who has Trinity DAC. We hear his Trinity DAC in a variety of music. For my taste, DAVE is comprehensively better than Trinity. The friend who joined this session and also listened to my DAVE in my home. He later then bought DAVE. 

 

[EVOLVIST]

One thing I didn't do was audition music recorded in mono with the DAVE.

Usually with headphones mono recordings have that hole-in-the-middle effect. Maybe the crossfeed will help with that; but has anyone listened to mono recordings with the DAVE through headphones? I imagine it's the same effect, yet I'm curious from experience that you guys might have had.

Thanks!

 

[JaZZ]

Usually I don't listen to mono recordings (even convert them manually to «stereo»), but just tested it. I can't reproduce the hole-in-the-middle effect, the music sounds like happening straight in the center of my head.
 
Crossfeed does nothing with mono recordings: You can't monophonize the low-frequency content therein any further.