CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[Rob Watts]

  Would somebody kindly explain how we should read following specification of Dave and would kindly explain how good it is?
 
Dynamic range at -60 dBFS 1kHz -127 dBA A wt
 
I was told from one of our hifi forum member that this specification is not so good when compared with other DACs and was wondering if that was true.
But am not so technically strong and would appreciate if someone would provide easy-to-understand explanation about it. Thanks.

People get confused with DR - somebody once said that Dave was poor compared to some silly DAC - they claimed 160dB - it turned out that the DAC measurement was the noise floor. Dave noise floor is -180 dB and has zero measurable noise floor modulation. Here are some recent measurements:
 





 
No other DAC comes anywhere close to Dave's measured performance. As too DAC dynamic range, its a pretty meaningless number - it just tells you the residual hiss level. What is more important is noise floor modulation, of which Dave has none, and small signal distortion, which again Dave has none.
 
Rob 

 

[Kakki]

  People get confused with DR - somebody once said that Dave was poor compared to some silly DAC - they claimed 160dB - it turned out that the DAC measurement was the noise floor. Dave noise floor is -180 dB and has zero measurable noise floor modulation. Here are some recent measurements:
 
No other DAC comes anywhere close to Dave's measured performance. As too DAC dynamic range, its a pretty meaningless number - it just tells you the residual hiss level. What is more important is noise floor modulation, of which Dave has none, and small signal distortion, which again Dave has none.
 
Rob 

 
Thanks Rob, for your prompt response, the recent / detailed measurements, and clear answer!
Really appreciated. I would convey your information to our hifi forum. Thank you.

 

[STR-1]

Getting increasingly frustrated that the London stockists of Dave keep selling their demo
models before I get the chance to listen. But then I suppose I might try to persuade them to sell to me after a demo. Come on you lucky guys who already own a Dave, is the gap between TT and Dave bigger than gap between Hugo and TT?

 

[JaZZ]

Getting increasingly frustrated that the London stockists of Dave keep selling their demo
models before I get the chance to listen. But then I suppose I might try to persuade them to sell to me after a demo. Come on you lucky guys who already own a Dave, is the gap between TT and Dave bigger than gap between Hugo and TT?

 
Sorry, I haven't heard the TT.
 

I ordered mine for more than 4,5 month ago, but the "big selling" countries like UK / AUS / Asia / US got the the highest priorety, then the rest will receive their units.

 
That's odd. Why should Switzerland be considered one of the most important markets? I could have bought two or three by the end of 2015, in silver and/or black. Without ordering.

 

[Beolab]

Sorry, I haven't heard the TT.






That's odd. Why should Switzerland be considered one of the most important markets? I could have bought two or three by the end of 2015, in silver and/or black. Without ordering.

Where have i wroted Switzerland JaZZ ?

US= USA
AUS= Australia
UK= United Kingdom
Asia= Asia continent.

 

[Mavwong]

I come from auralic vega. Straight jump to Dave once I heard it. This could explain why demo set keep flying off the shelf. Before I hear the Dave. I have no intention to buy it frankly speaking. I under estimate the ability of Dave. The most high end dac / transport combos ever heard is emmlabs dac2x. It's good but it's usb input failed big time. I have no idea how other 50k dac sound but hack care. If I could get such a great sounding dac with 12kusd, I would be more than happy. I know even at this price, many would not be able to afford it. But I think it's still a reachable price point for many others. I would say Chord and Rob did a great job advancing Dac market and take lead.

Just buy what you can afford now and keep saving for Dave.

 

[JaZZ]

 

That's odd. Why should Switzerland be considered one of the most important markets? I could have bought two or three by the end of 2015, in silver and/or black. Without ordering.

Where have i wroted Switzerland JaZZ ?

 
You haven't. But apparently Switzerland has been served as well as the mentioned countries – otherwise I wouldn't own a DAVE since early January. And you're still waiting for yours despite having placed an order long time ago...

 

 

[Beolab]

You haven't. But apparently Switzerland has been served as well as the mentioned countries – otherwise I wouldn't own a DAVE since early January. And you're still waiting for yours despite having placed an order long time ago... :blink:  

Okey! Sorry JaZZ

A little OT but does someone have a link to share where you can sell your used Chord products if we dont have any luck at HeadFi, where folks are selling / buying Chord gear, because here in Scandinavia it is a totally dead market for pre-owned Chord products

So i thaught if it where a bigger UK site where you can sell/ trade your Chord product ?

 

[highendhifi]

Okey! Sorry JaZZ

A little OT but does someone have a link to share where you can sell your used Chord products if we dont have any luck at HeadFi, where folks are selling / buying Chord gear, because here in Scandinavia it is a totally dead market for pre-owned Chord products

So i thaught if it where a bigger UK site where you can sell/ trade your Chord product ?

Not sure about a chord specialist site but I hear good things about 2ndhandhifi co uk. Never personally used them so don't know much though

 

[rgs9200m]

There is a lot of activity and posted questions on audiogon for a used hugo on sale.

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

Okey! Sorry JaZZ

A little OT but does someone have a link to share where you can sell your used Chord products if we dont have any luck at HeadFi, where folks are selling / buying Chord gear, because here in Scandinavia it is a totally dead market for pre-owned Chord products

So i thaught if it where a bigger UK site where you can sell/ trade your Chord product ?

HiFiWigwam and PinkFish Media are two UK HiFi websites that have a private classified section.   Or if you want a possible quicker sale....ebay UK (although you have to swallow the 10% ebay charge ! ).

 

[mslatr]

What i am most curious about is whether DAVE is noticeably better across all types of music? That is, do I need to listen only to classical or acoustic music to enjoy the benefits of the DAVE or will it enhance the enjoyment of all files? That is, say I were to listen to something like Adele's 25 or the new Coldplay album (examples only, please don't flame am trying to pick typical modern music) would the difference be noticeable? While my first choice is to listen to well recorded, engaging, music sometimes you just want to rock and those options aren't available.
 
Also, I'd be curious to hear the gear that Mr. Watts uses to monitor the output from the DAVE on the road and at home. What speakers or headphones does he use in his everyday or critical listening?
 
Finally, if I understand MQA properly it adjusts the playback for the A/D converter used in the preparation of the file. Is it possible to program DAVE to make a similar adjustment? By this i mean not MQA implementation, but improvement of the sound by overcoming limitations or biases introduced by the A/D converter used.
 
Waiting for the one US demo unit to find its way to Chicago so I can give it a whirl...in the meantime I would love to see a full comparison to HUGO and the TT.
 
thanks.

 

[Beolab]

What i am most curious about is whether DAVE is noticeably better across all types of music? That is, do I need to listen only to classical or acoustic music to enjoy the benefits of the DAVE or will it enhance the enjoyment of all files? That is, say I were to listen to something like Adele's 25 or the new Coldplay album (examples only, please don't flame am trying to pick typical modern music) would the difference be noticeable? While my first choice is to listen to well recorded, engaging, music sometimes you just want to rock and those options aren't available.

Also, I'd be curious to hear the gear that Mr. Watts uses to monitor the output from the DAVE on the road and at home. What speakers or headphones does he use in his everyday or critical listening?

Finally, if I understand MQA properly it adjusts the playback for the A/D converter used in the preparation of the file. Is it possible to program DAVE to make a similar adjustment? By this i mean not MQA implementation, but improvement of the sound by overcoming limitations or biases introduced by the A/D converter used.

Waiting for the one US demo unit to find its way to Chicago so I can give it a whirl...in the meantime I would love to see a full comparison to HUGO and the TT.

thanks.

From what Rob and from all personal impressions has described, the DAVE is as transparent and musical that it is technical possible today, so it is neutral in that aspect, very revealing to Commercial-Radio -Loudness-boasted-recorded music-with-limited-Dynamic-Range.

It is a Reference DAC so its not gonna forgive or smoothen out any flaws in the music.
So it is up to Adele and Coldplay mastering technichans to learn to not put on max Loudness on every singel radio hit.

Here you can search in the database for music with high DR:

http://dr.loudness-war.info/

I have found out that music with great recordings does 90% of the time have a great DR value, so it seems to go hand in hand.

And you can also see that many of the recorded tracks in the Database from HD tracks are have less DR than the org. CD / Vinyl recording.

 

[ubs28]

From what Rob and from all personal impressions has described, the DAVE is as transparent and musical that it is technical possible today, so it is neutral in that aspect, very revealing to Commercial-Radio -Loudness-boasted-recorded music-with-limited-Dynamic-Range.

It is a Reference DAC so its not gonna forgive or smoothen out any flaws in the music.
So it is up to Adele and Coldplay mastering technichans to learn to not put on max Loudness on every singel radio hit.

Here you can search in the database for music with high DR:

http://dr.loudness-war.info/

I have found out that music with great recordings does 90% of the time have a great DR value, so it seems to go hand in hand.

And you can also see that many of the recorded tracks in the Database from HD tracks are have less DR than the org. CD / Vinyl recording.

How much better does the $10k+ DAVE sound over the Chord Hugo? Is it 2 times better?
 
I can't demo it anywhere so I have to buy it without hearing it.

 

[Beolab]

How much better does the $10k+ DAVE sound over the Chord Hugo? Is it 2 times better?

I can't demo it anywhere so I have to buy it without hearing it.

Thats a good question for @DaveRedRef-III or another user who have received it and who had the chance to direct compare it with the TT.

My estimation is at least more of the same characteristics that the TT got, with more refinement and resolution on another level.