CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[Mavwong]

I am very interested to know as well, it will be a shame if I need a separate balance amp to drive my soon to come HEK. And it's already well known that planner did gets better driving with balance. Hack, even my HD600 sound better with balance.
 
 
 
Quote:

  Rob,
 
based on some tests it seems that the HifiMan HE1000 lack some authority from the front Headphone out, but... it sound VERY good from the XLR on the back when using this adapter cable.
 
But... then the DAVE gets very hot.

 
--> Does this usage of a 35 ohms headphone connected on the XLR line out (like it is 100% OK to do with TotalDAC) may cause some damage to DAVE ?  What is the Impedence of those XLR line out ? 
 

 

[Beolab]

This most be fixed so the DAVE not get overheated ;(

 

[Rob Watts]

  could you please list (all dozen?, maybe?) commercial music digital releases that actually capture "natural depth cues" in the recording stage and didn't modify, mangle, or just paint it on to the usual multiple close miced feeds in the mastering?

Unfortunately I don't know how an individual recording is put together. Either there is a lot of depth on the recording, or there is none - Nora Jones is flat, but that's OK, it just sounds like she is in your room and this is the intention of the recording engineer. But some studio recordings have tremendous depth, and its all done with reverb. Most classical have good depth, some exceptional. I must say film and TV sounds fantastic, the recordings have great spatial layering - notably Game of Thrones, Walking Dead, The leftovers (music for this is excellent too).
 
I don't think it matters if the depth is "natural" or close miked with mix down from ambient mikes or totally reverb added - they all can work if done carefully.
 
Rob

 

[Rob Watts]

   
Rob, I heard the Dave proto-type in Tokyo at the end of Sept. The Dave proto-type already had unbelievable deep sound stage and sounded super real... 
So now, the production model is even more enhanced with the sound-stage depth? Any other updated points?
 
Really looking forward to hearing the production model... hopefully soon!

Yes depth is about 1/3 deeper now, and its a bit smoother, with better detail resolution. But upgrading the internal noise shapers was the only audio change I did; the rest of the work was control issues.
 
Rob

 

[Rob Watts]

  Rob,
 
based on some tests it seems that the HifiMan HE1000 lack some authority from the front Headphone out, but... it sound VERY good from the XLR on the back when using this adapter cable.
 
But... then the DAVE gets very hot.

 
--> Does this usage of a 35 ohms headphone connected on the XLR line out (like it is 100% OK to do with TotalDAC) may cause some damage to DAVE ?  What is the Impedence of those XLR line out ? 
 

Categorically do not do this. The balanced drive has insufficient current drive and is intended to drive power amps only.
 
Dave can drive the HE1000 with ease - they are rated at 90 dB 1mW 33 ohms. Dave will give 1.4W into 33 ohms that translates to ear damaging 121 dB SPL with the HE1000.
 
Moreover distortion is virtually identical with a 33 ohm load - that is hundreds or thousands of times smaller than the best headphone amps. Unless you like the sound of distortion, and prefer reduced transparency, and no depth, don't use an external amp.
 
Rob

 

[Sonic77]

  Yes depth is about 1/3 deeper now, and its a bit smoother, with better detail resolution. But upgrading the internal noise shapers was the only audio change I did; the rest of the work was control issues.
 
Rob

Well I'm excited! Can't wait to get this DAVE dac in my system.
Any idea when shipping starts?

 

[bmichels]

Dave can drive the HE1000 with ease - they are rated at 90 dB 1mW 33 ohms. Dave will give 1.4W into 33 ohms that translates to ear damaging 121 dB SPL with the HE1000

Rob

Agreed, DAVE could play the HE1000 loud

 

[Mavwong]

Oh man, come on Rob, just create the negative rail of the headphone out won't be too difiicult for this 13K USD DAC will it? I don't want to use another amp too as it will defeat the purpose of your highly transparent DAC!
 
 
 
Quote:

  Categorically do not do this. The balanced drive has insufficient current drive and is intended to drive power amps only.
 
Dave can drive the HE1000 with ease - they are rated at 90 dB 1mW 33 ohms. Dave will give 1.4W into 33 ohms that translates to ear damaging 121 dB SPL with the HE1000.
 
Moreover distortion is virtually identical with a 33 ohm load - that is hundreds or thousands of times smaller than the best headphone amps. Unless you like the sound of distortion, and prefer reduced transparency, and no depth, don't use an external amp.
 
Rob

 

[rkt31]

not expert but, as told by rob already that xlr out is for driving power amps which have impedance in kilo ohms and not in few ohms like in headphones. so obviously attaching headphones would stress the xlr out and may cause damage in long run to the circuitry.  why not use rca out instead of xlr out for headphones as that will also have the advantage of separate ground for left and right channel.

 

[lovethatsound]

well i don't think anyone should complain about chord taking their time to get dave absolutely right for the market.And on that note Rob i really think you and chord should really think about putting daul AES on dave and a balanced headphone output on dave,doing this would please alot more people than you could imagine,and most likely increase sales of dave as a 1 box solution for headphone users and blu transport users as well,don't just make dave great make it perfect . take your time rob (chord)get it right.

As you can see Mavwoug and bmichels i pointed this out a while ago in the above post.

 

[Sonic77]

hmmmmm.....
you all know the Dave Dac is about to be released, right? And you know all the retooling that would be required to add an xlr port right? Plus who knows what other circuit design changes that need to be accomplished, right? I think you all do.
You might not realize this, but this is starting to sound trollish, right when this dac is about to be released. 

 

[JaZZ]

I agree. People are starting to go overboard with their individual wishes – which are moreover based on unscientific half-knowledge.
 
If Rob Watts would have considered a balanced headphone output a useful addition on this noncompromizing DAC/amp, I'm sure he would have added it.

 

[lovethatsound]

hmmmmm.....
you all know the Dave Dac is about to be released, right? And you know all the retooling that would be required to add an xlr port right? Plus who knows what other circuit design changes that need to be accomplished, right? I think you all do.
You might not realize this, but this is starting to sound trollish, right when this dac is about to be released. 

No one is trolling,their just pointing out something that in their opinion their headphones sound better balance.All that will happen is they'll buy another product from another company,which is a shame because chord make some great sounding DACs.I know Rob prefers single ended,but alot of people prefer balance,and just maybe manufacturers should put both on and let the customer decide.

 

[Sonic77]

No one is trolling,their just pointing out something that in their opinion their headphones sound better balance.All that will happen is they'll buy another product from another company,which is a shame because chord make some great sounding DACs.I know Rob prefers single ended,but alot of people prefer balance,and just maybe manufacturers should put both on and let the customer decide.

Let the customers decide, thing is this design has been out there for awhile now, why all the last minute requests? Maybe the next version, if there is one will have that feature.

 

[JaZZ]

No one is trolling,their just pointing out something that in their opinion their headphones sound better balance.All that will happen is they'll buy another product from another company,which is a shame because chord make some great sounding DACs.I know Rob prefers single ended,but alot of people prefer balance,and just maybe manufacturers should put both on and let the customer decide.

 
You seem to acknowledge Rob's competence in terms of DAC design, but doubt his competence in terms of amplifier design. A bit illogical, if you ask me. Apparently he can build single-ended headphone-output stages that sound better than balanced ones (not least related to the puristic signal-path concept), whereas other manufacturers/designers choose the opposite path with balanced drives that sound superior to their own single-ended outputs. I guess if you want to hear DAVE's sophisticated multi-tap DAC with –350 dB modulation noise in all its purity, the best you can do is accept Rob's single-ended solution. If you insist in balanced drive (for whatever reason), choose another brand. Nitpicking on an already finished design is a bad habit.