[Beolab]

Agreed, DAVE could play the HE1000 loud but... not dynamically. XLR is where the magic is !

@bmichels

Have you had the DAVE at your home or how have you test this?

It would be a very nice feature if you can connect to the XLR if the sound are better from that output!

I hope Rob can fix this so we don't get a flat undynamic sound. ;(

 

[JaZZ]

I would be careful with such single reports. An output not meant for this purpose with a supposed impedance mismatch sounding «magical» makes me skeptical. Is your friend a tube lover by chance?

 

 

[lovethatsound]

I would be careful with such single reports. An output not meant for this purpose with a supposed impedance mismatch sounding «magical» makes me skeptical. Is your friend a tube lover by chance?  

JaZZ you make me skeptical lol

 

[chordguy]

  Unfortunately I don't know how an individual recording is put together. Either there is a lot of depth on the recording, or there is none - Nora Jones is flat, but that's OK, it just sounds like she is in your room and this is the intention of the recording engineer. But some studio recordings have tremendous depth, and its all done with reverb. Most classical have good depth, some exceptional. I must say film and TV sounds fantastic, the recordings have great spatial layering - notably Game of Thrones, Walking Dead, The leftovers (music for this is excellent too).
 
I don't think it matters if the depth is "natural" or close miked with mix down from ambient mikes or totally reverb added - they all can work if done carefully.
 
Rob​

Rob   ....  you mentioned in this post and an earlier post that Dave is great for movies.
How would this be implemented as the standard home cinema set up would be hdmi out of a Blu-ray player into a home cinema processor, then to amps and speakers. 

 

[bmichels]

 

[robeeert1]

, " ...(DAVE) sounded good.  The sound is very open and rich, much more musical than the Hugo.  As predicted, after about an hour, the DAVE became very hot as if it was working too hard.  I'm not sure if this is safe and what might happen if the DAVE was used like this all the time...)"

 
I'm very curious how the Dave sounds. I have to test it.  I'm a little worried about the high temperature inside the DAC. Heat problem is known from DPA Dacs, which Rob designed many years ago. What about the Dave Rob, why does it become so hot? Can we run it with continuos play for 24h a day?

 

[audiobill]

   
I'm very curious how the Dave sounds. I have to test it.  I'm a little worried about the high temperature inside the DAC. Heat problem is known from DPA Dacs, which Rob designed many years ago. What about the Dave Rob, why does it become so hot? Can we run it with continuos play for 24h a day?

That report was while DAVE was being used with an adapter from the XLR outputs driving headphones directly, which is the specific configuration that Rob advised to avoid since it is not designed to operate that way. He warned that it would run much too hot in that scenario, but not when connected as recommended for normal use.

 

[Beolab]

That report was while DAVE was being used with an adapter from the XLR outputs driving headphones directly, which is the specific configuration that Rob advised to avoid since it is not designed to operate that way. He warned that it would run much too hot in that scenario, but not when connected as recommended for normal use.

I can live with just using the SE output if it just sounded equally as the balanced, but i think its tuff to know that it sounds richer and more dynamic through XLR.

So i hope the finished version will have equal sound on the outputs, because it is an SE DAC , so it can only be the higher voltage on XLR against the SE output that differ the sound.

 

[Rob Watts]

Thermals - yes Dave naturally runs warm - there is a lot of power being dissipated, and the thermal conduction from die to case via the PCB is very effective, so case temperature is the PCB temperature. A thermal measurement was done (by myself and independently by Chord). In my case I ran it at 5v RMS into 33 ohms for several hours, then measured die temperature with an infra red sensor. The power electronics had 100 deg C safety margin (that is Dave would have to get 100 deg C hotter before the power devices would destroy). The critical FPGA had a 40 deg C margin - this is not the danger level but the level for which timing closure was set, so the FPGA would have to get 40 deg C hotter before problems. There is a thermal trip with Dave, this had another 20 deg C to go.
 
So thermals are not a problem.
 
Driving with balanced XLRs - this would sound terrible with lots of distortion at reasonable volume levels. So if a listener prefers it that way, then fine, some like distortion. Don't buy a Dave if you like the sound of distortion.
 
AES EBU - I have already said that this is a rubbish standard for high data rates. I contacted Matt at Chord, and there are no reports of problems using Blu with BNC cables and double data rates. The only problem that occurs is when people use poor RF cables. Replacing it with proper RF quality cables solves noise issues.
 
Balanced headphone drive - I have already stated that this would degrade transparency, so I do not and will not do it for headphones.
 
Rob

 

[JaZZ]

  Thermals - yes Dave naturally runs warm - there is a lot of power being dissipated, and the thermal conduction from die to case via the PCB is very effective, so case temperature is the PCB temperature. A thermal measurement was done (by myself and independently by Chord). In my case I ran it at 5v RMS into 33 ohms for several hours, then measured die temperature with an infra red sensor. The power electronics had 100 deg C safety margin (that is Dave would have to get 100 deg C hotter before the power devices would destroy). The critical FPGA had a 40 deg C margin - this is not the danger level but the level for which timing closure was set, so the FPGA would have to get 40 deg C hotter before problems. There is a thermal trip with Dave, this had another 20 deg C to go.
 
So thermals are not a problem.
 
Driving with balanced XLRs - this would sound terrible with lots of distortion at reasonable volume levels. So if a listener prefers it that way, then fine, some like distortion. Don't buy a Dave if you like the sound of distortion.
 
AES EBU - I have already said that this is a rubbish standard for high data rates. I contacted Matt at Chord, and there are no reports of problems using Blu with BNC cables and double data rates. The only problem that occurs is when people use poor RF cables. Replacing it with proper RF quality cables solves noise issues.
 
Balanced headphone drive - I have already stated that this would degrade transparency, so I do not and will not do it for headphones.
 
Rob

Thanks, Rob!
 
That makes me wonder if the reduced transparency (in the form of added distortion) be the actual sonic advantage to some with balanced headphone drive generally. I'm not insisting on that, because I don't know. After all people add amps (i.e. distortion) to Mojo, Hugo and TT to make it sound «better» (= warmer/more forgiving).
 
I for one feel well served by Chord and their (your) sound philosophy, since I much prefer transparency and purity to spectacularity.

 

[robeeert1]

Thanx Rob for thermal explaination, all I have to do now is to compare Dave with your old SX-512 which I consider it to be the best DAC ever released.

 

[rkt31]

now the things are very clearly explained why balanced headphone drive was avoided in dave. one thing more can headphones be attached through rca out of dave ? what is the output impedance of rca out, xlr out and headphone out ? are they all different or same like in  hugo ? i currently tap rca out of hugo both for my power amp and sub through rca splitter and it works great ! can i tap rca of dave similarly ?  it would be very kind to answer my queries ! thanks in advance .

 

[DaveRedRef-III]

One key area where Dave has been continually acclaimed by those who have heard it is in the dynamics. Yet someone comes along, misuses the product (if indeed he did) and proclaims it is 'flat in the dynamics' but it is brilliant if used in a way it was not designed for. Oh and it overheats when misused! If indeed it genuinely was tested in this way (which I doubt). 
 
Like Jazz I am becoming increasingly skeptical of some comments of late and I wouldn't be surprised if there were multiple aliases being used here too. Someone posts a ridiculous claim then someone else responds as if the ridiculous claim is now fact. I have seen this strategy over and over in many different sectors of business - When a commercial (or personal) pocket is likely to be hit there seems no level to which some people will not stoop in order to protect their position. 

 

[DaveRedRef-III]

Hopefully the fog will clear when units start hitting the streets. Though regardless of (anticipated) rave reviews I am sure there will always be someone who will claim something else, which sells at a 5th the cost, is so much better.
 
Trust no-one and use your own ears would seem to be the best approach.

 

[rkt31]

rightly said DaveRedRef-III. chord electronics has totally changed the DAC with the products like hugo and mojo. others may be waiting to respond but until someone comes up with a radically different idea ( like increasing tap lengths by the use of processing power of fpga), it is very difficult to compete the chord DACs based on price performance ratio. if mojo is close to hugo ( i have not heard mojo ), it is already finishing the markets of some of the biggies of headphone amps and DACs .  persoanlly i am so happy with hugo that i think it is the single component which has improved the sound qaulity the most of my full set up. adding a better amp further lends benefits indicating how better sounding hugo is campared to many  other DACs in the market. i have already saving for the DAVE  if at all i will able to buy one some day !