[bluecar]

Yes I get that too but when I took a step back and just listened to the music without analyzing and comparing, I found I was enjoying the overall balance and weight more with HF on. But if directly comparing, with HF off, there is more detail in the highs but the sound is a little thinner. It sounds better right away but loses something with longer listening but this is all headphone dependent too.

I went with the 'official' Watts advice, which was to leave Hi-Fil On, unless using the M-Scaler. It's a definite Off with the scaler for me

 

[iamoneagain]

I went with the 'official' Watts advice, which was to leave Hi-Fil On, unless using the M-Scaler. It's a definite Off with the scaler for me

So when I was advised to use the Poweradd battery at 12v, I had the HF filter on and it was too dark. I never tried 12v with the HF filter off at the time. Now comparing 16v with HF on vs 12v and HF off, I choose off. It’s the right balance of weight with a touch more detail. But as mentioned, it’s hard to compare since brighter sounds better at first. So it sounds like I’m contradicting myself, but I’m now doing longer listening sessions to determine best settings. And this is using Utopia’s, so someone with warmer headphones might have different results.

 

[NeoDiNardo]

I have a Chord Hugo TT2 on order but I’m going to try and upgrade that order to a Chord Dave. Alas, the Dave review envy finally won me over. I also have on order Focal Stellia headphones which I think the Dave can comfortably drive.

My research shows that while the TT2 has a far more powerful and desirable headphone amplifier, M Scaler or no M Scaler, the Dave is still the better DAC. I can always pair the Dave with a more powerful headphone amp. And I can always upgrade the Dave with the M Scaler as well. But I don’t believe the math of a TT2 + a M Scaler = a Chord Dave. I can get behind the math of a Dave + a M Scaler + a slightly warm high-end headphone amplifier = possible DAC headphone amplifier heaven.

 

[bluecar]

I have a Chord Hugo TT2 on order but I’m going to try and upgrade that order to a Chord Dave. Alas, the Dave review envy finally won me over. I also have on order Focal Stellia headphones which I think the Dave can comfortably drive.

My research shows that while the TT2 has a far more powerful and desirable headphone amplifier, M Scaler or no M Scaler, the Dave is still the better DAC. I can always pair the Dave with a more powerful headphone amp. And I can always upgrade the Dave with the M Scaler as well. But I don’t believe the math of a TT2 + a M Scaler = a Chord Dave. I can get behind the math of a Dave + a M Scaler + a slightly warm high-end headphone amplifier = possible DAC headphone amplifier heaven.

I went for the HPA4 for amp duty with the DAVE - not regretting the choice - the HPA is unobtrusive and that suits me just fine, as I like the fundamental sound of the DAVE. For me, that made more of a hit that getting the m-scaler first. It's good to have something to save for

 

[NeoDiNardo]

I went for the HPA4 for amp duty with the DAVE - not regretting the choice - the HPA is unobtrusive and that suits me just fine, as I like the fundamental sound of the DAVE. For me, that made more of a hit that getting the m-scaler first. It's good to have something to save for

I looked up the Benchmark HPA4, it looks very nice. In the past, I had thought that model was a DAC headphone amplifier, now I see now it’s all analog XLR offering.

 

[Malcyg]

I have a Chord Hugo TT2 on order but I’m going to try and upgrade that order to a Chord Dave. Alas, the Dave review envy finally won me over. I also have on order Focal Stellia headphones which I think the Dave can comfortably drive.

My research shows that while the TT2 has a far more powerful and desirable headphone amplifier, M Scaler or no M Scaler, the Dave is still the better DAC. I can always pair the Dave with a more powerful headphone amp. And I can always upgrade the Dave with the M Scaler as well. But I don’t believe the math of a TT2 + a M Scaler = a Chord Dave. I can get behind the math of a Dave + a M Scaler + a slightly warm high-end headphone amplifier = possible DAC headphone amplifier heaven.

I think you will not be disappointed by that decision. And you may find that you don’t need a headphone amp with the Stellia. I find that Dave can drive my Utopia’s perfectly well without any extra assistance.

I have recently been reminded of just how good a stand-alone Dave is. When I got Dave - getting on for 5 years ago now - I remember how delighted I was with how it sounded. I had upgraded from a Chord DSX1000 which itself had been a remarkable step up from what had gone before, but Dave was simply transformative in my main system. I then got the Blu II when it came out and a few of us on here, recognising the huge potential of this pairing, set out in pursuit of maximising our system around it.

I ended up changing everything else apart from my amp - including my speakers and headphones. The main thing about the BluDave pairing was that it opened the windows so wide, it was clear to see shortcomings elsewhere in your system, especially in the whole digital front end that fed into the BluDave. The CD player in the Blu II was instrumental in this since comparisons were easy and clear to hear the differences.

Last week, I tore my rack down and reconstructed it and whilst rebuilding it, it struck me that I had never actually heard Dave alone in my current set up. So I left it set up with Dave alone for a couple of days and was amazed all over again at how good it sounded. I found myself thinking that I could definitely live with this and wondering whether I actually needed the Blu II in my system. Yesterday, I put Blu II back in the system and whilst I am happier with the sound, I still think that I could live with Dave alone - maybe.....

 

[iamoneagain]

I have a Chord Hugo TT2 on order but I’m going to try and upgrade that order to a Chord Dave. Alas, the Dave review envy finally won me over. I also have on order Focal Stellia headphones which I think the Dave can comfortably drive.

My research shows that while the TT2 has a far more powerful and desirable headphone amplifier, M Scaler or no M Scaler, the Dave is still the better DAC. I can always pair the Dave with a more powerful headphone amp. And I can always upgrade the Dave with the M Scaler as well. But I don’t believe the math of a TT2 + a M Scaler = a Chord Dave. I can get behind the math of a Dave + a M Scaler + a slightly warm high-end headphone amplifier = possible DAC headphone amplifier heaven.

It’s not recommended to get a separate amp if don’t have demanding headphones since lose transparency. However, this comment is also made about the Hugo 2 and that should have been powerful enough to drive the Utopia’s but the Dave was huge upgrade in terms the fullness and power it offers. The Stella is even more efficient than the Utopia’s.

 

[CRITICALSHOT]

The DSD filtering is much more complex that with Hugo, simply because I have more space on the FPGA. There is almost no limit to how much filtering you need to do to remove the HF distortion and noise that the DSD noise shaper generates. Out of band noise creates intermodulation distortion with analogue electronics, if the noise is random then the distortion is random, so you then get noise floor modulation. The brain is very sensitive to noise floor modulation, and perceives it as a brightness to the sound, so reducing it makes it sound smoother and darker. There is virtually no limit to how small noise floor modulation needs to be, so any trace of HF and RF noise is audible.

Just to give you an idea how sensitive RF/HF noise is, I have a HF filter option with Dave. This is a 60 kHz filter, and is used to remove the ADC noise shaper noise from 192k, DXD and 384k recordings. Now with DXD recordings it works a treat, its much smoother and darker. But oddly, you can hear the benefit with 44.1k - even CD sounds smoother. Now that was very unexpected, as the WTA filter has at worst 120 dB of filtering, and typically (for music sources) is 140dB. So HF noise is below -140 dB for CD, but an extra stage of filtering gives a subjective benefit - and its down to the reduction of HF/RF noise. Just to illustrate the problem DSD64 is -20dB down at 100kHz.

With Dave, I had the freedom to make much more elaborate filters - and ended up with a non decimating design that used 64 DSP cores alone. But it would not fit with the large PCM WTA filters, so Dave has two modes - PCM+ and DSD+. PCM+ is 164k taps, and has Hugo DSD 64/128/256 filter. DSD+ is 82k taps PCM and has the better DSD filter, and also supports DSD512. You can use DSD+ with video, as the group delay is smaller, although most projectors have enough delay to match PCM+ delay.

Rob

https://goldmund.com/does-high-resolution-audio-sound-better/

With my previous two channel system (Dave/MS) I always had the HF Filter off. With my new SET Integrated it sounds best with the HF Filter on. I can venture to explain it; but if you read the link, plus what Rob said and do some research you can come to your own conclusion. If you don't want to be technical, choose what sounds best to you.

 

[Triode User]

https://goldmund.com/does-high-resolution-audio-sound-better/

With my previous two channel system (Dave/MS) I always had the HF Filter off. With my new SET Integrated it sounds best with the HF Filter on. I can venture to explain it; but if you read the link, plus what Rob said and do some research you can come to your own conclusion. If you don't want to be technical, choose what sounds best to you.

And this post from RW way back in 2015 explains the nature of the the HF filter and why it was incorporated in the Dave.

The HF filter is a sharp cutoff filter set to 60 kHz. The intention was to bandwidth limit high sample rate recordings - DXD and 384k have huge amounts of noise shaper noise from the ADC. This noise will degrade SQ by increasing noise floor modulation as the out of band noise creates intermodulation distortion with the wanted audio signal in the analogue electronics.

Now it works very well, in using it makes it sound smoother and darker - exactly what you get from lower noise floor modulation. But the curious thing is that it also sounds better with 44.1 k - curious because the WTA filter typically has a stop band attenuation of 140 dB (worst case 120 dB). So out of band noise is very low with 44.1 k and I was not expecting a SQ change with the filter with CD. The filter is not something added, its just a different set of coefficients for the 16 FS to 256 FS WTA filter.

Something else to look into in the future as this suggests that 140 dB (typical) stop band attenuation is not enough.

Rob

 

[NeoDiNardo]

I officially upgraded my Chord DAC order, the Dave is on the way. Hooray!! Five years of Head-Fi and internet hype, thousands of dollars, it better be mind blowing!! My Focal Stellia is ready.

 

[CRITICALSHOT]

I officially upgraded my Chord DAC order, the Dave is on the way. Hooray!! Five years of Head-Fi and internet hype, thousands of dollars, it better be mind blowing!! My Focal Stellia is ready.

You should of got a Mojo it's more organic.

 

[iamoneagain]

So think I’m done playing around with settings. I finally settled on Poweradd at 16v for the mscaler with HF on. The longer I listened at 12v the more dull it started to sound. I tired to convince myself this is how the music should sound, very dark, but it’s not for me. So now can go back to just listening again.

 

[NeoDiNardo]

After much internal debate, I decided to back out of my Chord Dave purchase after all. What can I say, the Dave is just too rich for my blood. And for various reasons partly including price, the Chord Hugo TT2 is not what I’m after anymore either. I know this is not what Chord believes people want, but I’d rather Chord just maximize my dollars and simply make a nicer DAC only product. I could probably afford that much easier and I would be happier.

The Qutest is OK, but it lacks XLR out, it’s powered by a fragile Micro USB port, and I’d prefer a higher FPGA taps count. Whereas the TT2 has all that, but also adds all these other functions, and then is a bit too expensive to use as just a DAC. With the TT2, I feel that you have to like everything about it for that price to make sense. And there are things about it I don’t like as much as the DAC section. For better or worse, I’d much rather pick out my own headphone amplifier and preamplifier or integrated amplifier. And the Dave just makes my wallet cry, it’s far too pricy for me.

In the future, I would prefer Chord make something like a DAC only $3,000 Chord Qutest 2 with 100,000 taps, XLR out, and a high quality power supply (a quality built in PSU, a custom barrel plug for a quality external PSU, or a nice USB-C implementation, USB mini / micro is just the worst). Then have an optional matching $2,000 Chord Qutest M Scaler with half a million taps. For $5,000 total you could have a giant killer. Do that Chord and you have my money.

As it is, Chord’s solitary DAC only option is the Chord Qutest, with the Chord M Scaler as an optional upgrade. It’s an interesting if oddly mixed-matched upgrade path. For now, I think I’ll do something else that is a bit different and cheaper, like a nice separate DAC into a powerful headphone amplifier perhaps. It may not sound as good as a Chord DAC, but the budget and setup will be more to my liking. Otherwise, sorry Chord, but I will keep a hawkeye on your future products.

 

[hmartin]

After much internal debate, I decided to back out of my Chord Dave purchase after all. What can I say, the Dave is just too rich for my blood. And for various reasons partly including price, the Chord Hugo TT2 is not what I’m after anymore either. I know this is not what Chord believes people want, but I’d rather Chord just maximize my dollars and simply make a nicer DAC only product. I could probably afford that much easier an.....

...liking. Otherwise, sorry Chord, but I will keep a hawkeye on your future products.

Your thinking is very similar to mine before getting the chord dac. But I think Chord is maximizing the value because the quality of the direct connection to either a power amp or headphones. Hence saving money and giving higher quality. Only cases that is problematic is if you need a preamp for analogue source eg vinyl / tape or electrostatic headphones. But to my ears qutest is amazing value, would have no problem living with qutest especially with msc. For short cables I think unbalanced is fine ...

 

[iamoneagain]

After much internal debate, I decided to back out of my Chord Dave purchase after all. What can I say, the Dave is just too rich for my blood. And for various reasons partly including price, the Chord Hugo TT2 is not what I’m after anymore either. I know this is not what Chord believes people want, but I’d rather Chord just maximize my dollars and simply make a nicer DAC only product. I could probably afford that much easier and I would be happier.

The Qutest is OK, but it lacks XLR out, it’s powered by a fragile Micro USB port, and I’d prefer a higher FPGA taps count. Whereas the TT2 has all that, but also adds all these other functions, and then is a bit too expensive to use as just a DAC. With the TT2, I feel that you have to like everything about it for that price to make sense. And there are things about it I don’t like as much as the DAC section. For better or worse, I’d much rather pick out my own headphone amplifier and preamplifier or integrated amplifier. And the Dave just makes my wallet cry, it’s far too pricy for me.

In the future, I would prefer Chord make something like a DAC only $3,000 Chord Qutest 2 with 100,000 taps, XLR out, and a high quality power supply (a quality built in PSU, a custom barrel plug for a quality external PSU, or a nice USB-C implementation, USB mini / micro is just the worst). Then have an optional matching $2,000 Chord Qutest M Scaler with half a million taps. For $5,000 total you could have a giant killer. Do that Chord and you have my money.

As it is, Chord’s solitary DAC only option is the Chord Qutest, with the Chord M Scaler as an optional upgrade. It’s an interesting if oddly mixed-matched upgrade path. For now, I think I’ll do something else that is a bit different and cheaper, like a nice separate DAC into a powerful headphone amplifier perhaps. It may not sound as good as a Chord DAC, but the budget and setup will be more to my liking. Otherwise, sorry Chord, but I will keep a hawkeye on your future products.

Were you planning on using hard to drive headphones or only the Focal Stellia? With the Dave or TT2, you wouldn’t need a separate amp and the headphone jack is basically a direct connection to the Dac, so get the most transparent sound. The mscaler and all the fancy cables are not needed.

The Dave sounds amazing on its own. The mscaler will bring it up another level but could easily live with just the Dave alone since it’s so enjoyable. I was able to find a used one under $6500, which is great value since I didn’t need to buy separate amp and end up with end game setup. But I’m sure there are other options out there for less that people love.