[jlbrach]

Which is why I think the remastered Beatles stereo CDs are unlistenable unless I use my DAVE with crossfeed or I play them in mono.

I listen to the early Beatles in Mono only .....

 

[TheAttorney]

I voted yes, as I could see how that could be very irritating for anyone who regularly switches between headphones and loudspeakers. I currently only listen to headphones, so in practice I'd wait for other design fixes (I use the term deliberately) before going to the expense of returning my unit for a firmware update.

The main other usability fix would be to remove that irritating 8 second timout on function select. The number of times now where I've paused slightly too long on deciding whether a particular album was positive or negative phase, or what CF setting to use - and suddenly the sound goes blank becuase the input has changed instead the function I'm changing. I then have to press several times to get back to where I was. Yes it's a first world kind of problem, but that doesn't stop it being irritating.

From memory, Rob didn't say that he would never do a DAVE firmware update. He said he would only do an update if there was a very strong reason, and that he didn't expect that to happen because he takes the time at the beginning to get things right first time. Something like that. Well, the above are two examples of not getting it right first time - from a usability point of view. We understand how these things have happened, What gets irritating is that the Chord team doesn't seem to think such things are a big deal - that simply by explaining the history, or the design constraints at the time, somehow lets them off the hook for ever fixing any issue.

 

[iDesign]

I hope Chord explores the possibility of offering firmware updates when meaningful enhancements can be made rather than taking advantage of our consumerist culture and throw away mentality that is driven by the iPhone 3GS, 4, 4S... cycle. Offering updates reduces the secondhand market and will help Chord retain customers. Schiit has very clearly demonstrated this with the success of their $550 Yggdrasil Analog 2 upgrade. The DAVE reached a new audience for the first time largely because of its headphone capabilities and it arguably set a new benchmark for DACs in terms of both performance and cost within the hobbyist headphone community. I suspect those owners are far less likely to purchase a DAVE 2 or 3 and are far more likely to opt for a firmware upgrade as Rob Watts innovates his technologies.

 

[Mython]

.... I suspect those owners are far less likely to purchase a DAVE 2 or 3 and are far more likely to opt for a firmware upgrade as Rob Watts innovates his technologies each year.

Hmmm... well... a few things to contemplate:

Rob has already made it clear that 'DAVE 2 or 3' are not planned for the reasonable forseeable future (especially since Blu2 already elevates DAVEs performance to unprecedented levels)

Without meaning to speak for him, I know that he writes code when he has a specific project goal (usually one quite ground-breaking, since that tends to be an interesting and exciting motivator), not because of any sense of obligation to appease the annual-update kind of mindset. DAVE is very much on the leading edge of the SOTA, at present, and is unlikely to be substantially eclipsed any time soon (especially at it's non-stratospheric price-point).

In light of the fact that Rob has also openly discussed that he is actively developing one or more digital amplification projects, and also a state-of-the-art ADC (AKA 'DAVINA'), it seems doubly unlikely that he will have the time to remove himself from those projects in order to dedicate valuable time to creating a DAVE 2.

Lastly, it's worth keeping in mind that Rob is an independent contractor working alongside Chord, but not under their juris diction. His code is his own intellectual property. The hardware is manufactured by Chord & their industrial subcontractor(s).

 

[JaZZ]

Of course it is necessary to fix the manual in terms of crossfeed, that's undisputed. And I agree the now solution isn't ideal for people who switch between headphones and speakers either way. On the other hand I really welcome the preserved crossfeed function through the line outputs – although I'm not affected myself –, since it can be disabled after all: Think of listening through electrostatic headphones (dependent on an external amp anyway), and those who believe to need an external amp for dynamic headphones, too.

 

[miketlse]

Hmmm... well... a few things to contemplate:

Rob has already made it clear that 'DAVE 2 or 3' are not planned for the reasonable forseeable future.

He writes code when he has a specific project goal (usually one quite ground-breaking, since that tends to be an interesting and exciting motivator), not because of any sense of obligation to appease the annual-update kind of mindset. DAVE is very much on the leading edge of the SOTA, at present, and is unlikely to be substantially eclipsed any time soon (especially at it's non-stratospheric price-point).

In light of the fact that Rob has also openly discussed that he is actively developing one or more digital amplification projects, and also a state-of-the-art ADC (AKA 'DAVINA'), it seems doubly unlikely that he will have the time to remove himself from those projects in order to dedicate valuable time to creating a DAVE 2.

Lastly, it's worth keeping in mind that Rob is an independent contractor working alongside Chord, but not under their juris diction. His code is his own intellectual property. The hardware is manufcatured by Chord.

I agree with @Mython that we are unlikely to see an update to the DAVE code, for a few years yet.
A large part of my daily job is engineering communication, and I do wish that Chord would update the user manuals, to remove confusion. This is not a dig at Chord, and i realise that the physical version of the user guide may be printed in batches of X hundred, but I think it in the short-term it would be good practice to update the user guides on the Chord websites etc.

 

[Mython]

To lighten the tone, around here, for a moment, here's something beautiful (in more ways than one) to kick back and enjoy, this Sunday evening...

If any of you lucky DAVE owners have a flatscreen in your listening room, you can enjoy the spectacular view, at the same time!


www.youtube.com/watch?v=53lhcN47_YY

 

[Rob Watts]

My question to rob, is there any sound clip available recorded by Davina yet ?

Sadly no - I have been too busy on other projects. I am in Cusco, Peru today, ready to do the Machu Pichu 4 day trail, and when I get back from the family holiday, I will be actually coding for Davina, as other project pressures are diminishing. It will take some time before recordings are made...

 

[miketlse]

Sadly no - I have been too busy on other projects. I am in Cusco, Peru today, ready to do the Machu Pichu 4 day trail, and when I get back from the family holiday, I will be actually coding for Davina, as other project pressures are diminishing. It will take some time before recordings are made...

Enjoy your visit. I have long thought about how it would be good to visit Machu Pichu for nearly 20 years, but recognised that I needed to lose weight and get fitter, to allow my body to cope with the high altitude. Years of cycling give me hope.
In the meantime, it will be interesting to hear your feedback.

 

[MacedonianHero]

I listen to the early Beatles in Mono only .....

Yep...me too. I only listen to them in stereo after The White Album. Thankfully the crossfeed on the DAVE makes everything from The White Album and before listenable. Sadly as stereo was just coming into vogue, they often created this "fake" hard pan left and right stereo to mimic a proper stereo recording.

 

[doraymon]

Is it a dream to build and keep updated a matrix of the cables/accessories used with Dave, listing: user, power conditioner, power cable, digital interconnect, analogue interconnect?
It would be a good source of ideas for someone willing to upgrade their system.
I don't want to pester this thread so maybe it's a better idea to open a separate one only with this purpose? Maybe a poll?
Not sure this is something realistic or just a silly idea...

 

[AndrewOld]

Of course it is necessary to fix the manual in terms of crossfeed, that's undisputed. And I agree the now solution isn't ideal for people who switch between headphones and speakers either way. On the other hand I really welcome the preserved crossfeed function through the line outputs – although I'm not affected myself –, since it can be disabled after all: Think of listening through electrostatic headphones (dependent on an external amp anyway), and those who believe to need an external amp for dynamic headphones, too.

Right enough, that’s a fair point about using electrostatic headphones or an external amp. But in which case why make it necessary to find a headphone jack, stick it in your DAVE, fiddle with crossfeed settings the effects of which you wouldn’t hear, remove the headphone jack and then have no visual indication of which mode you have set? Not smart imo.

 

[musickid]

I'm hoping someone can help me understand a key point about dave's operation. Normally when you hear the expression garbage in garbage out it refers to bad quality recordings and the inability of a dac to do much with it. With dave however you often hear that it can even make a bad recording sound good. I understand of course there are limits to this. My two questions are 1) what are the top three or so negative qualities found in bit perfect streaming services such as roon/tidal lossless flac which make a recording sound bad. Finally what does or can dave do to compensate for this i.e. why do a lot of listeners say dave can even make a bad recording sound good? Many thanks to all MK. (I do understand that streaming services can be limited by the original master recording of an album and i also have a fairly good understanding of how chord dacs work. I'm really looking for a broader response here).

 

[Rob Watts]

I'm hoping someone can help me understand a key point about dave's operation. Normally when you hear the expression garbage in garbage out it refers to bad quality recordings and the inability of a dac to do much with it. With dave however you often hear that it can even make a bad recording sound good. I understand of course there are limits to this. My two questions are 1) what are the top three or so negative qualities found in bit perfect streaming services such as roon/tidal lossless flac which make a recording sound bad. Finally what does or can dave do to compensate for this i.e. why do a lot of listeners say dave can even make a bad recording sound good? Many thanks to all MK. (I do understand that streaming services can be limited by the original master recording of an album and i also have a fairly good understanding of how chord dacs work. I'm really looking for a broader response here).

I first noticed this effect with the original Hugo; before Hugo, as I improved my designs, then things became more transparent - and a recordings' flaws were easier to hear - to the point where a lot of recordings were unlistenable. But all that changed with Hugo; I could play bad quality recordings, and still enjoy the music. And this progress has been maintained with Blu Dave for example. Actually with the addition of an M scaler, this is the aspect you will appreciate the most. Now clearly from a measurement POV, and from the POV of how accurately the original waveform is being reconstructed, a Blu Dave is very much more accurate than say a Mojo. And you can play a 1930's mono recording, and enjoy the music- even though you can hear huge levels of distortion and noise, and the EQ is all wrong.

So why is this the case? I puzzled about this for a long time,and my conclusions are that digital introduces profound distortions that the ear brain has not been programmed to deal with. So the brain is used to coping with noise; it's used to dealing with simple harmonic distortion (the ear is very non-linear as a transducer); it's used to dealing with different frequency responses (when you go into a bright room or a dull room your brain auto compensates). But it can't deal with the unnatural distortions that digital introduces; and my path has been to identify and reduce these problems in a very aggressive way, without making assumptions on the way.

So I think conventional digital just destroys the music, and that's why things have profoundly changed for the better; when you listen to a Blu Dave, then you are there, in touch with the original master recording.

A pro recording engineer put it to me rather well - your gear allows me to easily hear what is wrong with a recording; but I can also experience what is right about the music.

And getting the music right is all that really matters...

 

[musickid]

Many thanks. Out of the darkness and into the light. The darkness being conventional digital the light being chord dacs and the way they deal with this. How close does H2 get you to the original master recording just to put this into some perspective. Or should one think 12 bit accuracy vs 16 bit and take that as a guide for the non technically educated amongst us. mk.