CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[Triode User]

I may try the DaveBlu2 prior to release or dare I say it jump ship to the PS Direct Steam which looking at the feed back seems to compare (close 2nd, equal or preferred by some people on this forum) with DaveBlu2, so my thinking is Dave vs PS DS may possibly be even closer..? I have yet to try..?

I have compared Blu2Dave to PS DirectStream with the latest Redcloud firmware and with both of them in the same system (ie a like for like comparison).

Blu2Dave was miles ahead to my ears. The DirectStream dac was not capable of resolving complex orchestral tracks during crescendos such as in Holst Planets Mars and sounded closed in compared to Blu2Dave. So in my books it was not even a close 2nd never mind equal.

 

[Clive101]

Yes, the LCD-4 I had on loan for a week were, according to the dealer, fully broken in (a demo unit they had since a year or so).
But as you said, the pairing with the DAVE could change a lot my overall impressions of the LCD-4, and this is why I am indeed curious about re-listening to them. Vocals should be wonderfully seductive!

I must admit I love vocals.
Or maybe I should try the Phi as you have the advantage over me...?

I have compared Blu2Dave to PS DirectStream with the latest Redcloud firmware and with both of them in the same system (ie a like for like comparison).

Blu2Dave was miles ahead to my ears. The DirectStream dac was not capable of resolving complex orchestral tracks during crescendos such as in Holst Planets Mars and sounded closed in compared to Blu2Dave. So in my books it was not even a close 2nd never mind equal.

Thank you for the input, I always wondered as Blu2Dave (16.5k plus two bnc cables) vs PS DS (5.5k) does cost three times as much, there must be some added value, did you manage to compare Dave vs PS DS...?

 

[flyte3333]

I've been so happy with my Hugo2 I've decided to proceed with the Dave purchase (and yes I have demo'ed Dave), pending a couple of things lining up this month.

If not this month, it's still only a question of when, not if - definitely by the end of this year.

It was nice to read that Dave will remain Rob's flagship DAC for a couple years (at least).

 

[Triode User]

Thank you for the input, I always wondered as Blu2Dave (16.5k plus two bnc cables) vs PS DS (5.5k) does cost three times as much, there must be some added value, did you manage to compare Dave vs PS DS...?

Yes. The same basic criticism was there for me against the DirectStream compared to Dave in that Dave resolved the complex orchestral passages where the DirectStream seemed to amalgamate into a single 'wall of sound'. My personal view as ever of course and others may hear different.

 

[Clive101]

Yes. The same basic criticism was there for me against the DirectStream compared to Dave in that Dave resolved the complex orchestral passages where the DirectStream seemed to amalgamate into a single 'wall of sound'. My personal view as ever of course and others may hear different.

Thank you, your view is appreciated and of value.

 

[jscmd2000]

I have come to believe that I am overly sensitive to sibilants, and what is annoying for me may be totally OK for someone else.
For reference, when I listen to Spanish Harlem by Rebecca Pidgeon (which overall is extremely enjoyable and which the DAVE has made even more real than before ) I tend to cringe with some of the S'es .. "There iS a roSe in SpaniSh Harlem ....".


Sibilance was an issue with my Phi as well, with the Dave and also with my Yggy/Rag. It is noticeably better now at >150 hrs, so have faith and keep listening. I still hear it but instead of being bothersome, sounds more like it is there to sharpen the edges for better imaging.

I also found the mids to be mildly recessed initially, thought it was purposeful to create more expansive stage. This is also better but still there.

 

[Jawed]

I had a (brief) listening session with the Utopia and I liked them very much. As you noted, the show-stopper for me was the soundstage size. I listen to a lot of classical orchestral music and the HD800S (and even more so the Abyss Phi I purchased later on) do a better job, IMHO, at building an expansive and immersive presentation of that type of music.

I've not even listened to Utopia, but the strong consensus on the presentation puts me off - I love the immersion in the atmosphere of recordings that DAVE + HD 800 S brings. When I upgraded from Hugo TT, DAVE made the soundstage size larger. Utopia would make the soundstage smaller again, undoing the improvement brought by DAVE, so that is a very unappealing prospect.

As for HF / RF noise, I am using my laptop on battery, and with the Uptone ISORegen (with the galvanic isolation switch set to on) in between the PC and the USB cable.

I suspect the ISO Regen only works properly if "battery powered" by the LPS-1 (or 1.2 as it is now).
​

I also tried 20x Topsinius ferrite cores with my previous USB cable (Forza Audio Works) and NOS 11, and did not notice a significant effect on sibilants.
I will try again the ferrites with my new USB cable (Phasure Lush), which by itself did a good job in smoothing out sibilance, and report back if I hear some clear benefits this time!

It's very interesting that the Lush makes a difference, as that would imply that RF noise is a problem. Very interested in your continued experiments.

I have come to believe that I am overly sensitive to sibilants, and what is annoying for me may be totally OK for someone else.
For reference, when I listen to Spanish Harlem by Rebecca Pidgeon (which overall is extremely enjoyable and which the DAVE has made even more real than before ) I tend to cringe with some of the S'es .. "There iS a roSe in SpaniSh Harlem ....".

Here that recording comes across as very sibilant but it doesn't make me cringe.

RF noise seems to "smear" the sibiliants and exaggerate them at the same time. DAVE, in general, improves sibilants because it is very fast with transients and when the RF is reduced the speed increases again and this cuts out the smearing and exaggeration on sibilance.

What I wanted to say is that the DAVE has noticeably increased the overall blackness of the background (and this perhaps plays a role at why we find it so transparent), thus making very small details and contrast in the music much more apparent with respect to my previous DAC. I find this feature even more striking via the Abyss Phi compared to the HD800S, which has also benefited by the DAVE a lot in terms of transparency and purity, but with some tracks it shows a spurious background noise (like the old hiss on cassette tapes) which is not audible to me via Phi.

I doubt that any sounds in the recording can ever be called spurious. But we don't want them to be unnecessarily exaggerated, and that can be part of the mystery of system setup.

I have noticed this when I compared the HD800S and the LCD-4 as well, and I thought at the time that the HD800S were showing this noise just because of better resolution and transparency, and the LCD-4, which I actually found veiled and overly thick with some recordings, were filtering out these "signals" due to some inferior technicality with this specific sonic performance.

Now, I am puzzled as well, because the Abyss Phi are by no means less resolving, detailed and transparent than the HD800S to my ears, and able to faithfully render the "atmosphere" with those recordings where ambience is well captured, but still they seem to "mask" these actually undesired noise effectively without making me loosing anything in the music.

This happens with very few recordings, and I need to go back and find a specific track or two to share with you so to be more specific.

The Stax guys have a good word for this concept, "plankton". In Spanish Harlem at around 1m30s you can hear the rest of the band getting ready to start playing, that's "good" plankton

Now playing: Kelly Lee Owens - Lucid

 

[simorag]

Sibilance was an issue with my Phi as well, with the Dave and also with my Yggy/Rag. It is noticeably better now at >150 hrs, so have faith and keep listening. I still hear it but instead of being bothersome, sounds more like it is there to sharpen the edges for better imaging.

I agree with you, also in my case the sibilance is now much less annoying that in the first 20hrs. I think I should be around 120hrs at this point, if in the next weeks I'll hear some further improvement I'll report back.

I also found the mids to be mildly recessed initially, thought it was purposeful to create more expansive stage. This is also better but still there.

Compared with the NOS 11, the DAVE has improved the presence of the vocals. Also, the break in of the Abyss have improved this. At this point, Phi + DAVE and HD800S + DAVE are both nicely presenting a focused and well placed picture of (for example) a singer in a group, or a solo violin in front of a piano. The HD800S are, to my ears, slightly more in-your-face than the Phi, and depending on the recording this is something I like or not.

I suspect the ISO Regen only works properly if "battery powered" by the LPS-1 (or 1.2 as it is now).

You are right, in fact I use the ISO Regen powered by the LPS-1 power supply.

 

[statfi]

The Stax guys have a good word for this concept, "plankton".

(I'm a Stax user.) I had not heard of "plankton" before. Do you have one or two links to its usage/description?

 

[Jawed]

Plankton is the micro-detail stuff in the recording that's not merely reverb and usually not musical - just sounds from the performance and objects in the space.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-stax-thread-iii.677809/page-724#post-13127806
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/off...mpressions-thread.767883/page-8#post-11633299

Plenty more results with a search...

Now playing: Imrat Khan - Rag Darbari

 

[xxx1313]

As for HF / RF noise, I am using my laptop on battery, and with the Uptone ISORegen (with the galvanic isolation switch set to on) in between the PC and the USB cable.
I also tried 20x Topsinius ferrite cores with my previous USB cable (Forza Audio Works) and NOS 11, and did not notice a significant effect on sibilants.
I will try again the ferrites with my new USB cable (Phasure Lush), which by itself did a good job in smoothing out sibilance, and report back if I hear some clear benefits this time!

Try your ferrites also on the cable between Iso Regen and its power supply. This was the main entry point for HF/RF noise in my case. Even the cheap ferrites made a significant difference there.

 

[draytonklammer]

Why did I wait a year to pull the trigger on a DAVE?

 

[flyte3333]

As for HF / RF noise, I am using my laptop on battery, and with the Uptone ISORegen (with the galvanic isolation switch set to on) in between the PC and the USB cable.

Are you using the Mean Well to power the LPS-1? If so, have you grounded the Mean Well's DC plug?

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/37034-smps-and-grounding/?page=1

 

[simorag]

Try your ferrites also on the cable between Iso Regen and its power supply. This was the main entry point for HF/RF noise in my case. Even the cheap ferrites made a significant difference there.

Interesting, thank you for the suggestion!

Are you using the Mean Well to power the LPS-1? If so, have you grounded the Mean Well's DC plug?
https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/37034-smps-and-grounding/?page=1

The LPS-1 is plugged in a power distributor:
http://www.systemsandmagic.com/index_file/eight.htm
thank you for the link, I'll study it and check whether it is applicable to my situation!

 

[flyte3333]

The LPS-1 is plugged in a power distributor:
http://www.systemsandmagic.com/index_file/eight.htm
thank you for the link, I'll study it and check whether it is applicable to my situation!

No problem! But is it the 7.5Vdc Mean Well SMPS (that comes with the LPS-1) that is "energizing" your LPS-1? Or are you using a linear PSU to power/energize your LPS-1?

If it's the former, you will want to follow that thread for best performance with your LPS-1 (Uptone's recommendation, not mine).

If you are using a linear PSU to power your LPS-1, no need to do anything.