CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[musicday]

Always wanted a Dave so anyone in UK considering trading his Dave, PM i have some nice audio items.
Thanks.

 

[Sonic77]

Anyone have Yggy gen 5 vs Dave thoughts?
Also, if you do (even without the gen 5 part) any thoughts on it with the Abyss Phi?

I haven't heard the Yggy gen 5, but I listen to my Abyss Phi connected to WA33 tube amp, the dac I'm using is the PS Audio Directstream with Redcloud operating system. Even tho I own the Blu Dave, I prefer the PS Audio dac, it just sounds better to my ears.

 

[simorag]

Phi connected to the Dave certainly has the edge on detail and resolution which I prefer. It doesn't sound under driven to me probably because I haven't tried Dave/Rag combo (as the Rag/Yggy are in my office downstairs and the Dave in the bedroom upstairs).

Enjoying the DAVE / Abyss Phi combo since a few weeks, and I am not feeling that the DAVE holds back the Phi even with challenging tracks for dynamics like large orchestra, drum solos, organ etc..

I was used to drive the Phi with an Audio GD NOS 11 DAC / amp with plenty of juice (8W class A at 40Ohm, balanced) and I am not missing its raw power so far.

Maximum listening level I reached with the DAVE / Phi is -2dB with some low level classical recordings. According to Rob Watts, the DAVE should not add noticeable distortion or clipping until pushed over +4dB (its maximum is +19dB) so I believe the available headroom, at least for my tastes / habits / music preferences, is reasonably high.

The transparency and resolution of the DAVE with the Phi is astonishing, I often forget I am listening via headphones.

Another definite plus is the crossfeed functionality that, with some recordings where the soundstage lateralization is too apparent, brings back a more realistic imaging. I tried various crossfeed software in the past but did not like them, it seems that the DAVE implementation has some "magic" that preserves tonal integrity and transparency.

 

[jlbrach]

I have the Dave/Blu2 combo with the Phi and I find i listen between -20 and -5 for the most part...I understand the Blu 2 reduces volume by 3 DB so with Dave only that would translate to -23 to -8.....I listen mostly to rock,blues and jazz so maybe that accounts for the difference...on some older jazz recordings that are mono or just mastered at low volume I go to -5 or perhaps a bit beyond...with some newly mastered rock i end up around -20 or even a tick behind that......I do not have any issues with the ability of the combo to drive the Phi for the most part....perhaps if i listened to a lot of classical I would think differently

I haven't heard the Yggy gen 5, but I listen to my Abyss Phi connected to WA33 tube amp, the dac I'm using is the PS Audio Directstream with Redcloud operating system. Even tho I own the Blu Dave, I prefer the PS Audio dac, it just sounds better to my ears.

I happen to also have Dave/Blu 2 and the ps audio dac...i use the ps audio with my speaker system because of the bridge 2 which allows me to integrate with roon....i am a fan of the ps audio and think it is outstanding for the price and love the upgrades but it is not in the league of the Dave/blu and that is not a negative comment because the dave/blu is several times more expensive and IMHO perhaps as good as any digital option no matter price.....just one mans opinion

 

[draytonklammer]

Thanks for all the thoughts everyone!

Really starting to think I might take the dive.

 

[Sonic77]

I have the Dave/Blu2 combo with the Phi and I find i listen between -20 and -5 for the most part...I understand the Blu 2 reduces volume by 3 DB so with Dave only that would translate to -23 to -8.....I listen mostly to rock,blues and jazz so maybe that accounts for the difference...on some older jazz recordings that are mono or just mastered at low volume I go to -5 or perhaps a bit beyond...with some newly mastered rock i end up around -20 or even a tick behind that......I do not have any issues with the ability of the combo to drive the Phi for the most part....perhaps if i listened to a lot of classical I would think differently


I happen to also have Dave/Blu 2 and the ps audio dac...i use the ps audio with my speaker system because of the bridge 2 which allows me to integrate with roon....i am a fan of the ps audio and think it is outstanding for the price and love the upgrades but it is not in the league of the Dave/blu and that is not a negative comment because the dave/blu is several times more expensive and IMHO perhaps as good as any digital option no matter price.....just one mans opinion

Yup we all have our own opinions and preferences, for example I'm not impressed with the headphone out of the Dave, (sucks) but that's my opinion.

 

[jlbrach]

It sure is and a minority opinion

 

[astrostar59]

Anyway, everyone should really hear how great the DAVE/LCD4 combo is. I can even listen to all my Beatles stuff (including lots of rare stuff / alternative unreleased versions/recording sessions that are now available) with great depth and reach with no annoying digital glare or brashness). It's the next best thing to DSD.

I use NO EQ AT ALL with any of my headphones with any of my music with the DAVE.

Essentially miraculous.

Interesting subject here. I am playing around with my system at the moment, and just sold out my 009s and 007As plus Carbon amp, for a simpler system. I heard the LCD4 out of the DAVE at Can-Jam in London last year as was surpassed how good it sounded and how well the DAVE was driving it. It got me thinking. Could I too drive direct somehow from my DAC?

At the moment I have a stand-in AMR DP-777 NOS DAC with tubed gain stage. I am using this to feed my really simply Metrum Aurix (on low gain setting) to drive the LCD2 Classic 2018 model. Plenty of gain here. I have the LCD4 arriving next week. I believe the LCD4 is 12dB less efficient more or less using the data off Audeze into a watts calculator. In low gain the Aurix is basically a constant impedance potentiometer, no gets or anything messing with the signal going through it.

The DAVE puts out 6.6v I think. I have a different DAC incoming in a few eels which has powerful tube gain stage in it, basically a full pre-amplifier based on the Aries Cerat Incito. The output is 10v at a low impedance of 50ohms. Thus it has 5 times more voltage and probably a lot more current.

My current idea is if the DAC used has enough gain, volts and current, and can handle driving a HP at 200 ohms, then I may experience exactly what you guys are enjoying driving your HPs directly from the DAVE. I would not recommend connecting any line out to your HPs, even it the DAC has volume control built in, as a line out is expecting to see a 10K load at least at the pre-amp or power amp next stage. A 200 ohms load is way too low and the DAC gain stage will probably run out of juice very quickly, resulting in odd FR and maybe even phase shifts?

The Aurix has a 25K input then the Alpha pot. The other cool thing (if this works out) is I use the protection circuitry in the little Aurix, and can defeat the sound if I want to use my speakers.

Any thoughts guys on the subject of the DAVE direct to your cans v DAVE and a HP amplifier.

 

[Jawed]

The output is 10v at a low impedance of 50ohms.

50 Ohms is not low impedance - it's disastrously high and will substantially change the frequency response of most headphones you connect.

I would not recommend connecting any line out to your HPs, even it the DAC has volume control built in, as a line out is expecting to see a 10K load at least at the pre-amp or power amp next stage. A 200 ohms load is way too low and the DAC gain stage will probably run out of juice very quickly, resulting in odd FR and maybe even phase shifts?

Hugo, Hugo TT, Hugo 2 and DAVE all have RCA outputs that are full power into headphones - exactly the same as the headphone socket.

Now playing: Dave Brubeck Quartet - Three to get Ready

 

[draytonklammer]

So you guys are saying it's safe to plug in my Abyss to the balanced output on the back?

I'd be tempted to try it when I get a Dave.

 

[Jawed]

No the XLRs on the back of DAVE are low power and will not drive headphones happily.

 

[astrostar59]

I think you will find met DACs have an output impedance around this figure. For example the benchmark:
https://benchmarkmedia.com/products/benchmark-dac3-hgc-digital-to-analog-audio-converter

which is 60 ohms. Genrally they say you need a factor of 10, so 50 ohms out, 500 ohms input impedance minimum.

Also you will find (for example) most of the Lampizator DACs output at 3-10Kohms spending which model.
As I stated, my method is to use the Aurix as pass through which has an input impedance of 25K ohms. Works perfect on 2v and feeding my LCD2s. Just now need to see how it works on my next DAC.

Interesting looking at the Hugo2, it's HP outputs 94mW into 300 ohms, so maybe 150mW into 200 ohms, and Audeze give it the thumbs up for the LCD4. Maybe we don't need 1-4 Watts after all?

 

[astrostar59]

Thanks for the info.

Looking at Ohms law tables just now, and the 94mW at 1% distortion at 300 ohms on the Hugo2
(looks like there max output) we have:
Resistance (R): 300
Current (I): 0.0177
Voltage (V): 5.13
Power (P): 94mW

which would be roughly (for the CD4):
Resistance (R): 200
Current (I): 0,0216794834
Voltage (V): 4,33589668
Power (P): 125mW

The DAVE is 6.8v quoted at 1% distortion, so again, assume that is the max output.

so we have:
Resistance (R): 200
Current (I): 0,034
Voltage (V): 6.8
Power (P): 231.2mW

So we can see the DAVE has almost double the Watts available at the HP output.

Thus I am thinking 10v on my incoming DAC is 1.47 times that figure, so may get away with it on the LCD4 (I hope).

So I am thinking the DAVE can technically play louder than the Hugo2, and has more current so better for dynamics and bass (for example).

Thanks for the input guys.

 

[jlbrach]

Interesting subject here. I am playing around with my system at the moment, and just sold out my 009s and 007As plus Carbon amp, for a simpler system. I heard the LCD4 out of the DAVE at Can-Jam in London last year as was surpassed how good it sounded and how well the DAVE was driving it. It got me thinking. Could I too drive direct somehow from my DAC?

At the moment I have a stand-in AMR DP-777 NOS DAC with tubed gain stage. I am using this to feed my really simply Metrum Aurix (on low gain setting) to drive the LCD2 Classic 2018 model. Plenty of gain here. I have the LCD4 arriving next week. I believe the LCD4 is 12dB less efficient more or less using the data off Audeze into a watts calculator. In low gain the Aurix is basically a constant impedance potentiometer, no gets or anything messing with the signal going through it.

The DAVE puts out 6.6v I think. I have a different DAC incoming in a few eels which has powerful tube gain stage in it, basically a full pre-amplifier based on the Aries Cerat Incito. The output is 10v at a low impedance of 50ohms. Thus it has 5 times more voltage and probably a lot more current.

My current idea is if the DAC used has enough gain, volts and current, and can handle driving a HP at 200 ohms, then I may experience exactly what you guys are enjoying driving your HPs directly from the DAVE. I would not recommend connecting any line out to your HPs, even it the DAC has volume control built in, as a line out is expecting to see a 10K load at least at the pre-amp or power amp next stage. A 200 ohms load is way too low and the DAC gain stage will probably run out of juice very quickly, resulting in odd FR and maybe even phase shifts?

The Aurix has a 25K input then the Alpha pot. The other cool thing (if this works out) is I use the protection circuitry in the little Aurix, and can defeat the sound if I want to use my speakers.

Any thoughts guys on the subject of the DAVE direct to your cans v DAVE and a HP amplifier.

I have gone back and forth between LCD-4 straight out of Dave...in my case Dave/Blu2 and adding my Moon 430.....In the end i usually opt for straight out of the Dave due to the transparency which is wonderful plus the Dave does a fine job driving the LCD-4 IMHO

 

[astrostar59]

Interesting indeed. So the Moon is rated at 20v and 3 times the DAVE output. How is the volume on the Moon v the DAVE?