CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE
Dec 9, 2016 at 2:28 PM Post #6,001 of 25,863
I am sure some have used (or are using) this combo, many have asked and some have answered this question...

How well will DAVE drives some of those power hungry cans such as Abyss and/or LCD-4 all by itself (without passing through another amp)?
 
Dec 9, 2016 at 2:34 PM Post #6,002 of 25,863
Just wish to add to my comments on balanced vs SE clarity. I have also tried Sarum Tuned Aray balanced vs Sarum Super Aray Balanced and the later ones indeed deliver greater clarity and control yet in SIngle Ended guise I just didn't notice the same benefit in my system. This surprised me.
 
Dec 9, 2016 at 2:35 PM Post #6,003 of 25,863
Balanced vs Single Ended
What am I giving up with Single Ended? In a word 'dynamics' or at least a reduction in this aspect of the delivery. (I believe the balanced output has twice the current. If so it is understandable really.) I prefer Balanced because the best dynamic and transient rendition will always deliver the best musical involvement. I have tested Chord Sarum Tuned Aray and Avid Reference Black 'balanced' against Chord Sarum Super Aray Single Ended. In both cases the balanced won me over with the greater dynamics and musical involvement despite being inferior cables to the SE cable. I found nothing else to differentiate the two choices. No change in clarity to my ears (on my system).

HF Filter
When I used Sonus Faber Olympica III speakers, I originally had problems with musicality when the Filter was on but I eventually found that this was due to the speakers already being a little to much (bass) for my room size and so when the sound warmed up with the Filter on the dynamics were impeded by wall proximity (to the speaker). Moving the speakers further from the wall brought the musicality back to its previous level. So the problem was my room and speaker size and not the Filter. The Filter definitely warms things up but it does something else which is not immediately obvious:- The music has more ease. It is more natural and relaxed with the Filter on. After a while I found this naturalness had seduced me and I now favour the Filter on. Not sure why it does that but there is something 'right' about it to my ears at least.

Balanced output from DAVE has twice the voltage (about 12V rms) compared to SE but because of its much higher impedance (about 32 ohms vs 0.055 ohms), the balanced outputs put out MUCH LESS current.  This is why you can't use the balanced outputs to drive headphones directly.
 
If you like how balanced sounds vs SE in your system, that's all that matters.
 
Dec 9, 2016 at 3:43 PM Post #6,004 of 25,863
Balanced vs Single Ended
What am I giving up with Single Ended? In a word 'dynamics' or at least a reduction in this aspect of the delivery. (I believe the balanced output has twice the current. If so it is understandable really.) I prefer Balanced because the best dynamic and transient rendition will always deliver the best musical involvement. I have tested Chord Sarum Tuned Aray and Avid Reference Black 'balanced' against Chord Sarum Super Aray Single Ended. In both cases the balanced won me over with the greater dynamics and musical involvement despite being inferior cables to the SE cable. I found nothing else to differentiate the two choices. No change in clarity to my ears (on my system).

 
That's a false conclusion. Twice the current translates to doubled loudness, not doubled dynamics. Valleys and peaks on the recording will cause identical current proportions in both cases. And if you have to turn the volume down for a comparable loudness level, you get the same output current as from the single-ended output (provided identical input sensitivity at the power amp).
 
However, I recall Rob stating that the balanced connection may sound superior in cases where the DAVE provides the better conversion than the attached amp – which won't be rare, I guess.
 
Dec 9, 2016 at 4:02 PM Post #6,005 of 25,863
  After Roys fabulous report on the Omega CAM loudspeakers i decided to order them. They arrived yesterday and I used them first with my Belles 150A V2 poweramp. Sounded OK but the mids were a bit shouty. Today I made a cable (an older DNM loudspeaker cable) with RCA-plugs and plugged it directly into the Dave (like Roy does). And even if the loudspeakers are not fully burnt-in I can say that it sounds fantastic, better than with my old system with power amp, loudspeakers and cables that cost me aboout 6000 dollar. A lot simpler and a lot better.
My room is 20m2 and I get enough power from the Dave to hear with relatively high volumes. Thank you, Roy! 

Wow, Ralf.  I never thought anyone else would do as I have but I'm glad someone else is hearing what I am hearing.  Synergy between speakers or headphones and amplifier is so important and somehow, the Alnicos and DAVE's amp is a match made in heaven.  The Alnicos have this natural warmth but also this sultry texture and wonderful bloom. I have not heard a better midrange than from this driver and it gives the impression of being driven by a tube amp even when driven by solid state amps.  While I loved how these speakers sounded with the Nelson Pass First Watt J2, driving them directly with the DAVE is an experience that has been unmatched for me.  The Alnicos are both extremely detailed and highly resolving while also being emotive and seductive, characteristics that are often on opposite ends of a spectrum and not present at the same time and so these speakers are like a freak of nature.  The rich delectable bouquet of details that is presented is unmatched by any headphones I have heard so far but more importantly, there is this wonderful depth and so there is a much truer sense of "being there."  The beauty of these drivers is they are high-efficiency and play well driven by DAVE's 2 watts, the cleanest and most transparent 2 watts a set of speakers will ever see.  Even at midnight whisper levels, the details and nuanced texture is all there.  
 
While these speakers will play loud, I would have to say this is not their strength.  In a large room, they can sound shouty with the DAVE but at moderate levels in a room of your size or smaller, they can definitely rock out.  While splendid with unamplified acoustical music, I find them just as compelling with rock, pop, EDM, etc as long as you pair them with a good subwoofer.  After trying several, I settled on the JL Audio Fathom F110V2 which utilizes a very fast 10 inch driver.  All Omegas are known for their speed as that is the hallmark of anything that Louis Chochos builds and finding a sub fast enough to keep up isn't easy but this sub, I believe, can keep up even with electrostats but still reach down to 19 Hz (+/- 6dB).  With the most demanding of my organ tracks, this sub maintains all of its integrity.  Another thing a sub like this adds is upper bass fill during quieter listening sessions.  During the times when I prefer to listen at lower volume levels, this is generally when I switch to headphones because you simply lose too much dynamics with speakers at low volumes, especially in the lower registers.  With this sub, however, you can independently increase its gain but also adjust the high pass filter from as low as 30 Hz up to about 100 Hz. Most subs I have heard don't sound good above 40 Hz but the bass quality is so good and tight that even when I start to have this sub provide fill in the 80 Hz region, I don't detect any compromise in SQ.  With the DAVE's RCAs directly feeding the Alnicos and DAVE's XLRs directly feeding the sub, it's as if my DAVE was custom designed for my setup.
 
While my Focal Utopias are not yet broken in yet, I am enjoying them.  They are the most resolving headphones I've owned and are easily a step up compared to my HD800S even though they sound more closed in than my Sennheisers.  They are not as airy or as musical as my HE1000s nor do they provide the bass levels of my HE1000 or Abyss but I am hoping that with a better headphone cable and with the HFC Trinity Helix, I will grow to enjoy them even more.  
 
One thing I am experimenting with is pairing the Utopias (and even the Abyss) with my subwoofer.  When you plug a headphone into the 6.35mm headphone jack of the DAVE, DAVE automatically shuts down the output to its RCA and XLR outputs and so it isn't possible to concurrently run a subwoofer with this configuration.  The current HFC prototype headphone device that I have has RCA inputs and so I can actually use my RCA interconnects to plug into this device and then plug my headphones into the other end of the device.  This allows me to drive my headphones and subwoofer at the same time and with open headphones like the Utopias and Abyss, I am finding the combination to be very enjoyable because the bass that this combination provides is not just audibly of higher quality but is also "pound your chest" palpable even when listening at low or moderate levels.  Having been spoiled by what I get with my subwoofer (which is one big reason I haven't had as much desire to listen to my headphones lately), I have to agree that the Abyss, in particular, isn't driven optimally by DAVE's headphone port.  Midrange and treble are wonderful but there's just not enough current output to provide satisfying levels of bass for this very inefficient planar magnetic headphone and so I can better appreciate why some prefer powerful amps for their Abyss but this combination seems to provide the best of both worlds.  
 
Dec 9, 2016 at 6:53 PM Post #6,007 of 25,863
That's a false conclusion. Twice the current translates to doubled loudness, not doubled dynamics. Valleys and peaks on the recording will cause identical current proportions in both cases. And if you have to turn the volume down for a comparable loudness level, you get the same output current as from the single-ended output (provided identical input sensitivity at the power amp).

However, I recall Rob stating that the balanced connection may sound superior in cases where the DAVE provides the better conversion than the attached amp – which won't be rare, I guess.


Jazz
As far as I could determine the volume was identical regardless but the dynamics were not.

EDIT: this was badly worded. I didn't notice any change in volume between the two but I have to say that was not where my focus was. The balanced output was clearly more dynamic.
 
Dec 9, 2016 at 7:14 PM Post #6,008 of 25,863
Dave, I wasn't questioning the sonic result, just the bolded sentence.
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(Editing is my profession.)
 
Dec 10, 2016 at 2:16 AM Post #6,009 of 25,863
Appreciate your point Jazz. My mistake
 
Dec 10, 2016 at 4:42 AM Post #6,010 of 25,863
Dec 10, 2016 at 8:38 AM Post #6,012 of 25,863
for those residing outside UK , it is not a good news. it could have been a good opportunity for those who are not from UK and can't afford dave.
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Yes, but sadly all the What Hifi competitions that I would like to win, also exclude non-UK entrants. 
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I think that it is Haymarket policy, because they collect all the entrants details, then supply them to the UK based advertisers - presumably Haymarket believe that in a global online world, UK advertisers can only attract online sales from UK readers. 
 
Dec 10, 2016 at 3:48 PM Post #6,014 of 25,863
  I am sure some have used (or are using) this combo, many have asked and some have answered this question...

How well will DAVE drives some of those power hungry cans such as Abyss and/or LCD-4 all by itself (without passing through another amp)?

I have the Dave along with the LCD-4 and the Utopia....the Dave drives the Utopia with ease...I use the Dave direct with the LCD-4 on occasions and on other occasions I use my Moon Neo 430.....people seem to be divided as to the Dave and hard to drive HP's...some think it sounds better direct and others think the amp gives it more body and a wider soundstage.....I have never heard the Abyss so I cannot comment on them...I think it all comes down to user preference because the Dave is capable of driving most anything
 
Dec 10, 2016 at 4:19 PM Post #6,015 of 25,863

Thanks for the input. Comparing the Abyss with the Utopia...my appreciation for the ease to drive the Utopia to it's full potential. However Abyss does need a bit more power to sound at it's best.

I am happily driving both with my Liquid Gold right now, but will hope to get my Dave in a couple of months time. Due to limited desk space, I might not be able to accommodate both piece of equipment, hence my question above 
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