CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE
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Kakki
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Marantz new SACD player SA-10 converts all the PCM to 11.2Mhz DSD (native DSD will not be up-sampled) and then convert it to analog signals using analog FIR filters.
I can see 14 MELF precision resistors in the discrete DA conversion section in SA-10 which I assume to be the analog FIR filters.
http://www.phileweb.com/news/audio/image.php?id=17665&row=7
This approach seems to be completely opposite of the Chord approach ... is there any point doing this???
I can see 14 MELF precision resistors in the discrete DA conversion section in SA-10 which I assume to be the analog FIR filters.
http://www.phileweb.com/news/audio/image.php?id=17665&row=7
This approach seems to be completely opposite of the Chord approach ... is there any point doing this???
romaz
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Well before my DAVE arrived, I asked Rob the following question earlier this year:
"Rob, does the DAVE benefit from mechanical isolation (Stillpoints, etc)?"
"Yes all products do."
And so, after months of putting it off because of more pressing priorities, I finally found the time to compare various methods of mechanical isolation with my DAVE. For those interested, here is what I have tried over the past couple of weeks:
During my initial evaluation of the DAVE back in November of 2015, I noticed that I couldn't detect much difference in SQ when I had the DAVE by itself planted on top of my TotalDac and when I had the DAVE suspended on top of a couple of HRS Nimbus footers. With my TotalDac, the Nimbus footers were quite effective. This suggested to me that the DAVE was already well isolated within its beefy aluminum block and might not benefit that much from further mechanical isolation. Here is a photo of that DAVE suspended on a pair of HRS Nimbus footers as I was comparing it against my TotalDac d1-monoblocs:
When my DAVE finally showed up, I was so pleased with how it sounded sitting directly on my cherry wood desk that I looked for a stand more for aesthetic reasons with isolation being a secondary concern. To my eyes, nothing is as attractive as Chord's own stand. While I have no idea how well it performs as a mechanical isolator, John Franks has certainly created a work of art with this stand but because of its larger footprint, I couldn't make it work for me. Here is the nicest looking portrayal of this stand with the DAVE I have seen which I borrowed from Frank Iacono's wonderful review on Headphone Guru:
As many of you know, I went with the Acoustic Revive TB-38H. It is very compact and appears tailor-made for the DAVE:
In this scenario, the DAVE sits on a Hickory plinth which then is floated on a bed of quartz crystals which absorb and eliminate vibrational energy by changing it to thermal energy. The concept bordered on snake oil to me but I did notice an immediate but subtle difference compared against the HRS Nimbus footers. With the TB-38H, the DAVE sounded a touch warmer with greater treble detail which were to my liking. The downside was that the sound seemed less focused, especially in the lower registers (bass was less defined) which was not a great trade-off. I had some low profile Black Ravioli footers that I was using for my CAD CAT music server that I placed initially between the DAVE and the hickory plinth and while this improved the focus, it diminished the slight warmth and enhanced treble detail that the TB-38H nicely brought out. I then tried the Black Raviolis underneath the TB-38H where they were directly positioned between my desk and the TB-38H. This led to my best scenario. The desired warmth and detail were there but also the focus and improved bass definition.
While I have been pleased with this setup over the months, the thought that there was something better continued to linger in my mind. At CES in January, I bumped into Mike Latvis, HRS' chief engineer, and told him how I found it odd that his highly acclaimed Nimbus footers worked so well with my TotalDac but not with the DAVE. When he realized that the DAVE was encased in a dense block of aluminum, he told me he had a new footer, the Vortex, that would be coming out soon and was specifically designed for such billets of metal and strongly encouraged that I try these Vortex footers. This is what these footers look like and they run $300 a piece. For the DAVE, I would need at least 3:
Unfortunately, I have been unable to locate these footers to borrow for evaluation and so I went with what I could find. There are literally dozens of options out there as you might imagine but rather than randomly picking out a few, I enlisted the counsel of several more knowledgeable than me about such matters.
Mechanical isolation boils down to the 3 "D"s -- dampening, drainage and dissipation. Many believe that mechanical isolation is more important with speaker setups than with headphone setups but my experience has shown me this isn't true. While it's intuitive to all that the vibrational energy created by a booming subwoofer would have deleterious effects on our sensitive components, what is less intuitive is that every electrical component we own creates its own resonances and sometimes it is the resonance created by a certain component that is that component's own worst enemy resulting in compromised noise floor, focus and dynamics. AC, by its definition as an alternating current creates a vibrational energy at 50-60 Hz (right in the middle of the critical bass range) that can impact SQ and so one of the most important places to apply vibrational control would be with our mains cables, line conditioners, distribution blocks and especially our power supplies that house power transformers. Of course, it doesn't take much imagination to understand how sensitive electronics like music servers, DACs and preamps can be impacted. Power supply components, as they charge and discharge, capacitors, resistors, ICs and output devices in the signal path all vibrate as they pass the audio signal and while these individual vibrations may be small, they can be additive and since they are occurring at the signal, these vibrations are poised to do the greatest damage. In these situations, dampening really isn't enough. Drainage of that vibrational energy from the component via some conduit and then dissipation of that energy in some harmless fashion (either as heat or work) is really what is more important.
But how should we approach vibrational control and can you overdo it? A good analogy would be a car's suspension. Many cars today have suspensions with different settings. My Audi, for example, has a "comfort", "standard," and "sport" mode where the "comfort" mode provides a softer suspension but it's at the compromise of control. Stiff or soft? It depends on the driver or in this case, the listener, but vibrational control is certainly one way to tune your sound. Where a wood plinth can sound warm and forgiving, granite, while less forgiving can result in tighter bass and better detail.
As for things like metal cones, hard hats, disks or spikes, these function as conduits that are designed to "drain" energy from a component and channel them to some mechanism that will then "dissipate" this energy.
As to footers, there seem to be two classifications when it comes to dissipation: the soft rubberish-based footers like the Black Raviolis and the HRS Nimbus that absorb vibrational energy and convert this energy to heat and the ball bearing-based footers like the Stillpoints that dissipate vibrational energy through rotating balls. Some believe the rubberish-based footers are better at dissipating vertical vibrational energy whereas the ball bearing-based footers are better at dissipating horizontal vibrational energy. Which is best? Each has its proponents but I don't think you can ever know for sure until you try. Finally, there are specialized racks that have some ability to mitigate broadband vibrations but I believe the consensus is that the ideal scenario employs a combination of efforts.
Now, without further ado, this is what I found:
Kellet Enterprises (KE) LP-13 Shake Absorber Vibration Isolation Pads ($0.45 per square inch)
@TheAttorney introduced these to me and I found their relatively low price ($0.45 per square inch) attractive and so I purchased a few custom sizes. In my photo at the top, a large KE pad is sitting underneath my TB-38H. A smaller KE pad is pictured 3rd from the left. They are comprised of an inert piece of ABS plastic sandwiched by two pieces of firm neoprene. The pieces of neoprene convert vibrational energy to heat that is then transferred to the piece of plastic in the middle. The concept is sound and their low price is attractive but as these devices were designed for heavy commercial equipment such as washing machines and large air conditioning systems, they have high durometer ratings (50-70) meaning their dampening abilities aren't maximized unless your component is very heavy. While they are effective in dampening, draining and dissipating vibrational energy from the DAVE and are definitely better than nothing, they are not as effective as the Black Raviolis which appear to have a more ideal durometer rating for components such as the DAVE. Where I found these very effective was under my speakers. In fact, these inexpensive foundations were more effective than even the Stillpoints Ultra 5s in dissipating energy from my speaker's cabinets resulting in a nice uptick in perceived resolution and clarity.
Agora Acoustics Magic Hexa Anti Vibration Feet ($49 for 4)
I won't spend too much time talking about these because they weren't very effective. They cost $49 for four footers.
VooDoo IsoPods ($100 each)
Upon first glance, these appear to be the rubberish-type of footers I described above but they are actually ball-bearing devices. They work well and are attractive (they come as either black or white footers) but because they work no better than the Black Raviolis and cost about $100 a piece, the Black Raviolis are a better value.
Stillpoints Ultra SS ($250 each)
The person that recommended these to me was confident these would represent the best bang for the buck with the DAVE. In his words, "They should blow away all your rubber footers and perform almost as well as the Stillpoint Ultra 5s for a lot less money than the Ultra 5s." As such, I had high expectations. I started with 3 footers but 4 were more effective. These are built to a very high standard and are comprised of heavy pieces of high-grade stainless steel. They are height adjustable and add an elegant touch to the DAVE as they complement the stainless steel rivets and chrome controls on the top of the DAVE. Based on aesthetic alone, I would have been happy to move to these footers. Interestingly, these footers sounded only slightly better than the Black Raviolis. They resulted in a definite uptick in clarity and detail with better-defined bass compared to no isolation and while they are better than the Black Raviolis (which I could barely discern under blind testing), I found the difference to be too small to pay nearly $900 more. I found a similar level of improvement against the Black Raviolis under my High Fidelity Cables MC-6 Hemisphere line conditioner. Where the Ultra SSs proved their worth were under my Oppo SACD transport. Under the Oppo, both Stillpoints reigned supreme.
Stillpoints Ultra 5 ($699 each)
At nearly $700 a piece, I never believed these would be a great value but I was open to the possibility that they could be so devastatingly good that I couldn't refuse them. Just to push the envelope, while two Ultra 5s can easily support the DAVE, I also compared what three Ultra 5s would accomplish. If I thought the Ultra SSs were heavy, these felt 10x heavier. Just so you know, these footers have no maximum weight capacity and were designed to also work under pianos. How did they do under the DAVE? Two Ultra 5s were just as good as three and two Ultra 5s were no better than a quad of Ultra SSs. While attractive, I would suggest you pass on these for the DAVE if value is a priority. Like the Ultra SS, they sound great under my Oppo but where they eclipsed everything else by a considerable margin was under a First Watt J2 amplifier (Pass Labs) that I am currently testing.
Black Ravioli Single Pad ($34 each)
While not easily seen, pictured above are 4 Black Raviolis between the DAVE and the large KE pad underneath. They are low profile being only slightly taller than the footers that come with the DAVE. As they are "pre-loaded," they are capable of dampening or dissipating vibration from even light components. While they couldn't compete with the Stillpoints underneath components that contain mechanically moving parts (like a CD transport) or a heavy amplifier, underneath the DAVE, they were almost as effective and provided the best bang for the buck.
In the end, I have decided to stay with my combination of an Acoustic Revive TB-38H and quad of Black Raviolis. As they say, you have to bring something special to be able to unseat an incumbent and none of these other footers were special enough. While I could have paired the Acoustic Revive with a quad of Ultra SSs underneath for a slightly improved presentation, this results in a very unappealing aesthetic. For my tastes, the combination of the TB-38H and Black Raviolis provide the right balance of warmth, resolution, clarity, and value while also providing an appealing aesthetic. As they say, YMMV.
"Rob, does the DAVE benefit from mechanical isolation (Stillpoints, etc)?"
"Yes all products do."
And so, after months of putting it off because of more pressing priorities, I finally found the time to compare various methods of mechanical isolation with my DAVE. For those interested, here is what I have tried over the past couple of weeks:
During my initial evaluation of the DAVE back in November of 2015, I noticed that I couldn't detect much difference in SQ when I had the DAVE by itself planted on top of my TotalDac and when I had the DAVE suspended on top of a couple of HRS Nimbus footers. With my TotalDac, the Nimbus footers were quite effective. This suggested to me that the DAVE was already well isolated within its beefy aluminum block and might not benefit that much from further mechanical isolation. Here is a photo of that DAVE suspended on a pair of HRS Nimbus footers as I was comparing it against my TotalDac d1-monoblocs:
When my DAVE finally showed up, I was so pleased with how it sounded sitting directly on my cherry wood desk that I looked for a stand more for aesthetic reasons with isolation being a secondary concern. To my eyes, nothing is as attractive as Chord's own stand. While I have no idea how well it performs as a mechanical isolator, John Franks has certainly created a work of art with this stand but because of its larger footprint, I couldn't make it work for me. Here is the nicest looking portrayal of this stand with the DAVE I have seen which I borrowed from Frank Iacono's wonderful review on Headphone Guru:
As many of you know, I went with the Acoustic Revive TB-38H. It is very compact and appears tailor-made for the DAVE:
In this scenario, the DAVE sits on a Hickory plinth which then is floated on a bed of quartz crystals which absorb and eliminate vibrational energy by changing it to thermal energy. The concept bordered on snake oil to me but I did notice an immediate but subtle difference compared against the HRS Nimbus footers. With the TB-38H, the DAVE sounded a touch warmer with greater treble detail which were to my liking. The downside was that the sound seemed less focused, especially in the lower registers (bass was less defined) which was not a great trade-off. I had some low profile Black Ravioli footers that I was using for my CAD CAT music server that I placed initially between the DAVE and the hickory plinth and while this improved the focus, it diminished the slight warmth and enhanced treble detail that the TB-38H nicely brought out. I then tried the Black Raviolis underneath the TB-38H where they were directly positioned between my desk and the TB-38H. This led to my best scenario. The desired warmth and detail were there but also the focus and improved bass definition.
While I have been pleased with this setup over the months, the thought that there was something better continued to linger in my mind. At CES in January, I bumped into Mike Latvis, HRS' chief engineer, and told him how I found it odd that his highly acclaimed Nimbus footers worked so well with my TotalDac but not with the DAVE. When he realized that the DAVE was encased in a dense block of aluminum, he told me he had a new footer, the Vortex, that would be coming out soon and was specifically designed for such billets of metal and strongly encouraged that I try these Vortex footers. This is what these footers look like and they run $300 a piece. For the DAVE, I would need at least 3:
Unfortunately, I have been unable to locate these footers to borrow for evaluation and so I went with what I could find. There are literally dozens of options out there as you might imagine but rather than randomly picking out a few, I enlisted the counsel of several more knowledgeable than me about such matters.
Mechanical isolation boils down to the 3 "D"s -- dampening, drainage and dissipation. Many believe that mechanical isolation is more important with speaker setups than with headphone setups but my experience has shown me this isn't true. While it's intuitive to all that the vibrational energy created by a booming subwoofer would have deleterious effects on our sensitive components, what is less intuitive is that every electrical component we own creates its own resonances and sometimes it is the resonance created by a certain component that is that component's own worst enemy resulting in compromised noise floor, focus and dynamics. AC, by its definition as an alternating current creates a vibrational energy at 50-60 Hz (right in the middle of the critical bass range) that can impact SQ and so one of the most important places to apply vibrational control would be with our mains cables, line conditioners, distribution blocks and especially our power supplies that house power transformers. Of course, it doesn't take much imagination to understand how sensitive electronics like music servers, DACs and preamps can be impacted. Power supply components, as they charge and discharge, capacitors, resistors, ICs and output devices in the signal path all vibrate as they pass the audio signal and while these individual vibrations may be small, they can be additive and since they are occurring at the signal, these vibrations are poised to do the greatest damage. In these situations, dampening really isn't enough. Drainage of that vibrational energy from the component via some conduit and then dissipation of that energy in some harmless fashion (either as heat or work) is really what is more important.
But how should we approach vibrational control and can you overdo it? A good analogy would be a car's suspension. Many cars today have suspensions with different settings. My Audi, for example, has a "comfort", "standard," and "sport" mode where the "comfort" mode provides a softer suspension but it's at the compromise of control. Stiff or soft? It depends on the driver or in this case, the listener, but vibrational control is certainly one way to tune your sound. Where a wood plinth can sound warm and forgiving, granite, while less forgiving can result in tighter bass and better detail.
As for things like metal cones, hard hats, disks or spikes, these function as conduits that are designed to "drain" energy from a component and channel them to some mechanism that will then "dissipate" this energy.
As to footers, there seem to be two classifications when it comes to dissipation: the soft rubberish-based footers like the Black Raviolis and the HRS Nimbus that absorb vibrational energy and convert this energy to heat and the ball bearing-based footers like the Stillpoints that dissipate vibrational energy through rotating balls. Some believe the rubberish-based footers are better at dissipating vertical vibrational energy whereas the ball bearing-based footers are better at dissipating horizontal vibrational energy. Which is best? Each has its proponents but I don't think you can ever know for sure until you try. Finally, there are specialized racks that have some ability to mitigate broadband vibrations but I believe the consensus is that the ideal scenario employs a combination of efforts.
Now, without further ado, this is what I found:
Kellet Enterprises (KE) LP-13 Shake Absorber Vibration Isolation Pads ($0.45 per square inch)
@TheAttorney introduced these to me and I found their relatively low price ($0.45 per square inch) attractive and so I purchased a few custom sizes. In my photo at the top, a large KE pad is sitting underneath my TB-38H. A smaller KE pad is pictured 3rd from the left. They are comprised of an inert piece of ABS plastic sandwiched by two pieces of firm neoprene. The pieces of neoprene convert vibrational energy to heat that is then transferred to the piece of plastic in the middle. The concept is sound and their low price is attractive but as these devices were designed for heavy commercial equipment such as washing machines and large air conditioning systems, they have high durometer ratings (50-70) meaning their dampening abilities aren't maximized unless your component is very heavy. While they are effective in dampening, draining and dissipating vibrational energy from the DAVE and are definitely better than nothing, they are not as effective as the Black Raviolis which appear to have a more ideal durometer rating for components such as the DAVE. Where I found these very effective was under my speakers. In fact, these inexpensive foundations were more effective than even the Stillpoints Ultra 5s in dissipating energy from my speaker's cabinets resulting in a nice uptick in perceived resolution and clarity.
Agora Acoustics Magic Hexa Anti Vibration Feet ($49 for 4)
I won't spend too much time talking about these because they weren't very effective. They cost $49 for four footers.
VooDoo IsoPods ($100 each)
Upon first glance, these appear to be the rubberish-type of footers I described above but they are actually ball-bearing devices. They work well and are attractive (they come as either black or white footers) but because they work no better than the Black Raviolis and cost about $100 a piece, the Black Raviolis are a better value.
Stillpoints Ultra SS ($250 each)
The person that recommended these to me was confident these would represent the best bang for the buck with the DAVE. In his words, "They should blow away all your rubber footers and perform almost as well as the Stillpoint Ultra 5s for a lot less money than the Ultra 5s." As such, I had high expectations. I started with 3 footers but 4 were more effective. These are built to a very high standard and are comprised of heavy pieces of high-grade stainless steel. They are height adjustable and add an elegant touch to the DAVE as they complement the stainless steel rivets and chrome controls on the top of the DAVE. Based on aesthetic alone, I would have been happy to move to these footers. Interestingly, these footers sounded only slightly better than the Black Raviolis. They resulted in a definite uptick in clarity and detail with better-defined bass compared to no isolation and while they are better than the Black Raviolis (which I could barely discern under blind testing), I found the difference to be too small to pay nearly $900 more. I found a similar level of improvement against the Black Raviolis under my High Fidelity Cables MC-6 Hemisphere line conditioner. Where the Ultra SSs proved their worth were under my Oppo SACD transport. Under the Oppo, both Stillpoints reigned supreme.
Stillpoints Ultra 5 ($699 each)
At nearly $700 a piece, I never believed these would be a great value but I was open to the possibility that they could be so devastatingly good that I couldn't refuse them. Just to push the envelope, while two Ultra 5s can easily support the DAVE, I also compared what three Ultra 5s would accomplish. If I thought the Ultra SSs were heavy, these felt 10x heavier. Just so you know, these footers have no maximum weight capacity and were designed to also work under pianos. How did they do under the DAVE? Two Ultra 5s were just as good as three and two Ultra 5s were no better than a quad of Ultra SSs. While attractive, I would suggest you pass on these for the DAVE if value is a priority. Like the Ultra SS, they sound great under my Oppo but where they eclipsed everything else by a considerable margin was under a First Watt J2 amplifier (Pass Labs) that I am currently testing.
Black Ravioli Single Pad ($34 each)
While not easily seen, pictured above are 4 Black Raviolis between the DAVE and the large KE pad underneath. They are low profile being only slightly taller than the footers that come with the DAVE. As they are "pre-loaded," they are capable of dampening or dissipating vibration from even light components. While they couldn't compete with the Stillpoints underneath components that contain mechanically moving parts (like a CD transport) or a heavy amplifier, underneath the DAVE, they were almost as effective and provided the best bang for the buck.
In the end, I have decided to stay with my combination of an Acoustic Revive TB-38H and quad of Black Raviolis. As they say, you have to bring something special to be able to unseat an incumbent and none of these other footers were special enough. While I could have paired the Acoustic Revive with a quad of Ultra SSs underneath for a slightly improved presentation, this results in a very unappealing aesthetic. For my tastes, the combination of the TB-38H and Black Raviolis provide the right balance of warmth, resolution, clarity, and value while also providing an appealing aesthetic. As they say, YMMV.
isquirrel
Headphoneus Supremus
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Thanks for your interesting comparison Roy, I have some Vortex footers on their way to try under a variety of components, I will let you know how they go. Re the Black Ravioli's I remember Scott from CAD telling me not to put them under certain areas of his DAC as they can mess with the signal, there must be some sort of active component in them, magnetic perhaps. In any case I have always found that I need to pay attention to the placement of any of these systems.
Rob Watts
Member of the Trade: Chord Electronics
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Gotta laugh.
I was doing this 25 years ago in an attempt to solve the innate problems of DSD 256 (PDM 256). But I was using multiple, individually dithered noise shapers in an attempt to improve the noise shaper resolution. The benefits of doing this is that it reduces the jitter sensitivity, but does not eliminate correlated jitter problems. It's why in 1995 I invented pulse array as this eliminates correlated jitter (its a fixed switching activity scheme independent upon the output), improves (in the case of Dave) noise shaper resolution by a trillion times and eliminates noise floor modulation - something you can't do with DSD.
What was also amusing is that they seem to be using an 8 bit shift register to re-time the outputs. I too used to do this too in the early 90's, but quickly found that using discrete flip-flops gave much better measured and SQ performance. Its due to switching activity on-chip changing the propagation delay of the OP FF - so making signal correlated jitter much worse. Also, power draw on each FF modulates the devices internal power rail, creating distortion. Using discrete flip-flops eliminates the signal correlated jitter issue, and with appropriate low impedance power planes, one can eliminate the PSU induced distortion problems too.
This issue of correlated jitter problems can't be solved on-chip. A silicon chip design I worked on over ten years ago had this issue; on chip we had separate clock buffers, custom designed IO buffers, internal separate PSU paths, and all we could do was minimize the issue - it was still there on simulation, and still measurable in reality - although we reduced the problem by two orders of magnitude. But going discrete eliminates the issue.
Rob
paulkwan
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Hi all,
I just have my DAVE for 1 week, except the first 24 hours, it sounds excellent !
I have a few questions see if anyone can share their experience with me.
1. I use it with microRendu, Roon install in NAS. I find it works in DoP mode only, native DSD can't play, read that there is discussion on driver for Linux before, any news on this ? I've encounter twice after I pause playing for a few min, it play bliss noise when I resume play, select next track will resume normal, so I believe I hit the so called DoP error handling problem.
2. I find DSD+ mode sound better for DSD file, more natural and closer to my previous DAC which is good at DSD playback. Any experience with conversion of DSD to PCM at Roon or player ?
3. Any real world experience with XLR output ? I'm considering WW Eclipse 7, wonder if I should take the XLR.
I just have my DAVE for 1 week, except the first 24 hours, it sounds excellent !
I have a few questions see if anyone can share their experience with me.
1. I use it with microRendu, Roon install in NAS. I find it works in DoP mode only, native DSD can't play, read that there is discussion on driver for Linux before, any news on this ? I've encounter twice after I pause playing for a few min, it play bliss noise when I resume play, select next track will resume normal, so I believe I hit the so called DoP error handling problem.
2. I find DSD+ mode sound better for DSD file, more natural and closer to my previous DAC which is good at DSD playback. Any experience with conversion of DSD to PCM at Roon or player ?
3. Any real world experience with XLR output ? I'm considering WW Eclipse 7, wonder if I should take the XLR.
yellowblue
100+ Head-Fier
Welcome to head-fi, paulkwan! You find your answer to question 1 in this thread.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/787020/review-comparison-of-5-high-end-digital-music-servers-aurender-n10-cad-cat-server-totaldac-d1-server-auralic-aries-audiophile-vortex-box/540#post_12822449
The short answer is: It works in DoP only.
EVOLVIST
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@romaz,a very nice write up. I plan to pick up some black raviolis. Still, just to play a little devil's advocate here, the CT-1 Power Cable is designed to magnetize your system, while supplying the best in AC power. The aforementioned Acoustic Revive company, who sells the TB-38H board, also sells a product that is designed to demagnetize your CDs and DVDs (I take it Blu Ray, too), because the only way listen, according to them, is to perfect and imperfect format:
https://www.acoustic-revive.com/english/cd_dvd/rd-3_1.html
Of course, this is also the company who sells a $252.00 CD-R which is supposed to perform some kind of magic to your system, just by playing it. http://www.technologyfactory.eu/index.php?item=acoustic-revive---cd-max-the-sound-at-zero-point&action=article&group_id=185&aid=2159&lang=EN
I wonder if it's required to demagnetize the $252.00 CD-R with your $423.99 RD-3 demagnetizer to play it, only to find out that your system has been sufficiently magnetized by the good folks over at High Fidelity Cables.
And then we have the guys and dolls at Chord who just test their product with the same cables they put in the box for you.
I'm reminded of how Samuel Clemons tired of his guests coming over and expecting good cigars after supper, so he went out and bought a bunch of cheap ones, and just took the bands off of his more expensive cigars and put them on the cheapos. His "expensive Havanas" were met with great applause. I was so smitten with the story that whilst in college I decided to take a few Budweiser kegs and fill them up with O'Doul's beer. Sure enough, everyone was as drunk as a vicar by midnight.
Anyway, I really don't know, having not experienced these cables, interconnects and CD-Rs. I have less than zero room to speak. I was just struck my the seemingly incongruous bedfellows the magnet and anti-magnet crowds appear.
https://www.acoustic-revive.com/english/cd_dvd/rd-3_1.html
Of course, this is also the company who sells a $252.00 CD-R which is supposed to perform some kind of magic to your system, just by playing it. http://www.technologyfactory.eu/index.php?item=acoustic-revive---cd-max-the-sound-at-zero-point&action=article&group_id=185&aid=2159&lang=EN
I wonder if it's required to demagnetize the $252.00 CD-R with your $423.99 RD-3 demagnetizer to play it, only to find out that your system has been sufficiently magnetized by the good folks over at High Fidelity Cables.
And then we have the guys and dolls at Chord who just test their product with the same cables they put in the box for you.
I'm reminded of how Samuel Clemons tired of his guests coming over and expecting good cigars after supper, so he went out and bought a bunch of cheap ones, and just took the bands off of his more expensive cigars and put them on the cheapos. His "expensive Havanas" were met with great applause. I was so smitten with the story that whilst in college I decided to take a few Budweiser kegs and fill them up with O'Doul's beer. Sure enough, everyone was as drunk as a vicar by midnight.
Anyway, I really don't know, having not experienced these cables, interconnects and CD-Rs. I have less than zero room to speak. I was just struck my the seemingly incongruous bedfellows the magnet and anti-magnet crowds appear.
romaz
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Thanks, Simon. You are the expert in mechanical isolation and so I will see what you have to say about the Vortex footers.
The Black Raviolis have no magnetic properties. I know since I inadvertently damaged one and so I cut it in half to see what was inside. Just to be sure, I tested one with my Trifield Broadband meter this evening and the Black Raviolis exhibit no magnetic properties. It's possible Scott was referring to overdampening which can happen if dampening is overdone.
During my conversation with Mike Latvis, as you've suggested, he told me placement should be strategic and certain key segments of a component such as power supplies, large transformers and the analog section should be especially targeted for drainage of vibrations. Here is a schematic of the DAVE that most of us have seen:
As you can see, the power supply is housed in the front/left portion of the chassis and the analog sections are in the front/right and rear/right portions. I tried to target these areas and perhaps this is one reason why 4 Stillpoints Ultra SSs at each corner sounded better than 3 positioned as a triangle. At the same time, based on how the internals are coupled to the chassis and as the chassis is a unibody design and is designed to also act as one giant aluminum heatsink, it would seem to me that you could effectively drain from any portion of the chassis but who knows for sure.
romaz
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@romaz,a very nice write up. I plan to pick up some black raviolis. Still, just to play a little devil's advocate here, the CT-1 Power Cable is designed to magnetize your system, while supplying the best in AC power. The aforementioned Acoustic Revive company, who sells the TB-38H board, also sells a product that is designed to demagnetize your CDs and DVDs (I take it Blu Ray, too), because the only way listen, according to them, is to perfect and imperfect format:
https://www.acoustic-revive.com/english/cd_dvd/rd-3_1.html
Of course, this is also the company who sells a $252.00 CD-R which is supposed to perform some kind of magic to your system, just by playing it. http://www.technologyfactory.eu/index.php?item=acoustic-revive---cd-max-the-sound-at-zero-point&action=article&group_id=185&aid=2159&lang=EN
I wonder if it's required to demagnetize the $252.00 CD-R with your $423.99 RD-3 demagnetizer to play it, only to find out that your system has been sufficiently magnetized by the good folks over at High Fidelity Cables.
And then we have the guys and dolls at Chord who just test their product with the same cables they put in the box for you.
I'm reminded of how Samuel Clemons tired of his guests coming over and expecting good cigars after supper, so he went out and bought a bunch of cheap ones, and just took the bands off of his more expensive cigars and put them on the cheapos. His "expensive Havanas" were met with great applause. I was so smitten with the story that whilst in college I decided to take a few Budweiser kegs and fill them up with O'Doul's beer. Sure enough, everyone was as drunk as a vicar by midnight.
Anyway, I really don't know, having not experienced these cables, interconnects and CD-Rs. I have less than zero room to speak. I was just struck my the seemingly incongruous bedfellows the magnet and anti-magnet crowds appear.
Thanks. I agree, HFC's magnetic conduction technology is counterintuitive to everything we have been taught. Most audiophiles work hard to demagnetize their systems. While most solutions propose to mitigate or repel EMI, HFC looks to harness it for its own purposes. And not all magnetism is bad. Without the magnets in your speaker and headphone drivers, sound would not be possible. I don't claim to understand all that is going on with this technology, only that I like what I hear. Nothing else has been more effective in allowing me to realize the DAVE's true potential.
romaz
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Hi Paul,
I have real world experience with the XLR outputs. In fact, I'm testing them now. If you take the time to read through Rob's posts, you will find that the RCA outputs of the DAVE will hold a slight edge over the XLRs in terms of transparency but by no means do the XLR outputs sound bad. If you need the massive gain provided by the XLR outputs (such as for driving an underpowered subwoofer), then by all means. Also, if for some reason your amplifier sounds best through its balanced inputs, you should probably go with the DAVE's balanced outputs. Given the choice, however, you should go RCA.
A great comparative review romaz. I like the way theory and practice are compared in a clear manner.
I may just have to get a set of these Black Ravioli pads, particularly as in the UK they are £24 each and free shipping.
BR also have a base plate that looks rather smart - I like that it's very low. But it is full size width, so a different kind of look to the Acoustic Revive plinth.
How did the BR pads sound on their own, or on the KE base, compared to having them with the Acoustic Revive?
I.e. is there enough to be gained by getting the BR pads first, then considering the base at a later stage?
Not sure if this was asked before but is it possible to switch between filters on Dave with the remote ?
romaz
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Thanks, it was your post on the KE pads that got me going finally.
Yes, the BR pads on their own provided a similar benefit with the DAVE as the Stillpoints but slightly less so. They add no color to the sound, which is generally what I look for but given that almost everything else I have is geared toward neutrality, I found the added warmth from the Acoustic Revive to be welcome. You could use your Ikea chopping board and possibly achieve a similar degree of warmth if this is what you desire but when I compared my maple rack against the Acoustic Revive, the Acoustic Revive brought out more treble detail. Those quartz crystals must be doing something although I have to say, it wasn't a night and day difference. As you've noticed in your own comparisons with the KE pads, the DAVE by itself sounds pretty good.
From the standpoint of draining and dissipating unwanted vibrational energy from the DAVE, if I had to choose between the BR pads and the Acoustic Revive, it would be a tough choice as they each provide something unique and both together are definitely better than each alone although the BR pads are definitely the less painful to obtain. If you noticed enough difference with the KE pads, I believe you will find the BR pads to be worth the money.
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