[mlxx]

  What tracks were you listening from Tidal? Maybe I'm waaaaaay off course here, but most of the stuff on Tidal is new(ish) and therefore a part of the overtly compressed/limited/brickwalled mastering philosophy that has been prevalent since roughly 1992. These lusterless, flat and fatiguing recordings have been the bane of audiophilia for decades now, and are not limited to popular music, but also many classical, jazz and popular live recordings have suffered the same fate..

 
It was Thriller album. At first I thought it may be the 2016 LCD3 which I had never heard before but my 2014 LCD3 was exactly the same. It was basically unlistenable and by the time I got to Billie Jean I gave up. I have been playing with the EQ here now and if I mute everything above 10kHz I get something similar sounding.

 

[GreenLeo]

   
True. Yggdrasil's digital filter only has around 18000 taps while Mojo exceeds it by about 8000 taps (26000 taps total). Probably why Mojo sounds less distorted than any Schiit's R2R DACs, but YMMV of course.

Do you mean that Mojo sounds better than the Yaggy?

 

[Rob Watts]

You will find Dave sounds very different on different recordings - so dark rich recordings will sound exactly that way - sharp bright and incisive will sound that way too. Other DAC's have a fixed footprint, so you listen to the DAC, and every recording sounds similar - not so with Dave.
 
On another topic - one thing I seem to have noticed - and I wonder if anybody else has - is that Dave allows you to hear differences in headphones much more easily. By this I mean the individual sound of a particular headphone is much more pronounced. 
 
Rob

 

[x RELIC x]

I had a very odd experience first time listening to the Dave. It was from a Windows desktop (USB) running Tidal to a 2014 and a 2016 LCD3. The volume was at -20dB. It was overly dark and very thick sounding, like it wasn't been driven properly. Seemed like there was no treble at all, no sparkle like the LCD3 usually has. I have tried the LCD3 on many high end systems and never heard it sound like this.

However, there was lots of depth especially at the front and it was very clean with no distortion at all. Later on when I was home and listened to my Conductor (with Sabre DAC) it now was sounding harsh and a bit distorted in comparison, but its tone sounded right. Not sure if it was a dud, I think I might have to find somewhere else to try it again just to be sure. So all this has left me very confused.

Not unexpected at all from my experience. When I went from the HA-1 (Sabre ESS9018) to the Mojo it was interesting that the Mojo sounded smoother, but I could still pick out the detail easily. Going back to the Sabre it become easy for me to pick out the shortcomings of the DAC in comparison. Rob has spoken at length about DACs adding digital hardness that initially sounds like detail, but it isn't.

As Rob has mentioned before, as romaz just posted above, this aggression can be fatiguing:

"And the benefit of an analogue character? Much smoother and more natural sound quality, with much better instrument separation and focus. Of course, some people like the sound of digital hardness - the aggression gets superficially confused with detail resolution - but it quickly tires with listening fatigue, and poor timbre variation, as all instruments sound hard, etched and up front. But if you like that sound, then fine, but its not for me."

(bold emphasis added by me)

I heard this quite quickly comparing the HA-1 DAC to the Mojo (and earlier comparing the R2R AGD DAC-19 to the HA-1). My point is that some DACs make everything sound hard and you may have simply become used to it. I've sold the HA-1 before I aquired my DAVE so I haven't compared them directly. If the track has hard sounds then the DAVE will present it as hard. If the track has a smooth sound then the DAVE will present it as smooth. The depth, as you note, is fantastic with the DAVE and something I find particularly addicting with the Focal Utopia.

My advice is to give your brain some time to forget the sound of the overtly etched, smeared, and bright sound of ESS9018. At least that's how I felt about the ESS in the end. Then again, if the Conductor's tone is preferable to you then that's what really matters.

Edit: Rob answered above more efficiently than myself.

 

[x RELIC x]

You will find Dave sounds very different on different recordings - so dark rich recordings will sound exactly that way - sharp bright and incisive will sound that way too. Other DAC's have a fixed footprint, so you listen to the DAC, and every recording sounds similar - not so with Dave.

On another topic - one thing I seem to have noticed - and I wonder if anybody else has - is that Dave allows you to hear differences in headphones much more easily. By this I mean the individual sound of a particular headphone is much more pronounced. 

Rob

Yes, I notice this as well Rob. Actually, to me, that's a testament to the DAVE not adding undue colouration.

 

[mlxx]

  You will find Dave sounds very different on different recordings - so dark rich recordings will sound exactly that way - sharp bright and incisive will sound that way too. Other DAC's have a fixed footprint, so you listen to the DAC, and every recording sounds similar - not so with Dave.

 
It is a long story actually, first I couldn't find a parking spot after driving around for 30mins so I parked in a loading zone. I was willing to get a ticket to get a chance to listen to it. This was a speaker store and they stuck the Dave on one of the admin pc's at the back for me to listen so as to not take up one of the speaker rooms. The pc had their email stuff up on the screen so I really didn't want to touch it after they got it playing. It sounded way too dark for me and I thought there must be something wrong with the setup or the unit, that this can't be what everyone is raving about and I didn't want to get a ticket anymore so I left after that.
 

Not unexpected at all from my experience. When I went from the HA-1 (Sabre ESS9018) to the Mojo it was interesting that the Mojo sounded smoother, but I could still pick out the detail easily. Going back to the Sabre it become easy for me to pick out the shortcomings of the DAC in comparison. Rob has spoken at length about DACs adding digital hardness that initially sounds like detail, but it isn't.

As Rob has mentioned before, as @romaz just posted above, this aggression can be fatiguing:
(bold emphasis added by me)

I heard this quite quickly comparing the HA-1 DAC to the Mojo (and earlier comparing the R2R AGD DAC-19 to the HA-1). My point is that some DACs make everything sound hard and you may have simply become used to it. I've sold the HA-1 before I aquired my DAVE so I haven't compared them directly. If the track has hard sounds then the DAVE will present it as hard. If the track has a smooth sound then the DAVE will present it as smooth. The depth, as you note, is fantastic with the DAVE and something I find particularly addicting with the Focal Utopia.

My advice is to give your brain some time to forget the sound of the overtly etched, smeared, and bright sound of ESS9018. At least that's how I felt about the ESS in the end. Then again, if the Conductor's tone is preferable to you then that's what really matters.

Edit: Rob answered above more efficiently than myself.

 
I know the sabre has a bad rep especially the one in the Conductor and I have always been looking for a better DAC (for one that blows me away not one that is a little bit better). I tried the Yggy (but not one that has been on for a week), the M51, Vega etc, but they where still very close sounding, not really worth it for me. I could hear that the Dave was very very clear and spacious, but wow, if this is how it is meant to sound, it will take me a year to get used to this. It is just way too dark.

 

[EVOLVIST]

You will find Dave sounds very different on different recordings - so dark rich recordings will sound exactly that way - sharp bright and incisive will sound that way too. Other DAC's have a fixed footprint, so you listen to the DAC, and every recording sounds similar - not so with Dave.

This makes perfect sense of a DAC like DAVE, but the OP said he was listening to Michael Jackson's Thriller album, produced by Quincy Jones and recorded at Westlake Studios in LA, 1982, right to two-inch tape.

I wouldn't consider Thriller an audiophile album (most pop albums aren't), but the album is very tonally balanced throughout, with very little in the way of frequecy conflicts between instruments and voice. The album is certainly not "dark" by any stretch of the imagination.

That said, the master tapes for the Thriller album are extremely well preserved for their relatively "older" vintage, but there have been some severely compromised remasters out there that have been limited and compressed to death in 2001, 2006, 2008, 2013 and 2015, rendering them unlistenable.

I'm not sure which master of Thriller Tidal uses (they generally pull the most recent), and which one the OP has at home, but he might have heard one of the rancid remasters and mistook it for the sound of the DAVE.

All of that digital modern compression and limiting can make for a very dark, and often distorted sound.

 

[Sunya]

 
This is Mola-Mola's DAC design. Why not just say it? It's still up-sampling to 3.125MHz/32-bit and then to 100MHz PWM so more like 32xDSD (or DSD2048). And as Romaz and Relic have said, Rob Watts has addressed his fundamental issue of PWM/DSD, even at high frequencies, because of signal correlated jitter amongst other things. But obviously, if you already own the Mola-Mola DAC and like the sound, great for you.

 
First, the company that makes it is irrelevant to the question about the working concept; second, I haven't asked what you think of it and I don't think you are Rob's spokesman. If Rob doesn't want to share his thoughts on the design (being a product from a competitor) I fully understand.
 
Anyway, here is a short description about it from Bruno Putzeys.
 

 

[Rob Watts]

The problem I have is that Head-Fi have stricter posting guidelines, in particular:
 
 A Member of the Trade may not post subjective assessments or negative comments about the products/services of competitors.
 
So for example if you had posted about "what are the problems with PWM based DAC's" I could have answered it. But showing a graphic which to anybody that knew a lot about DAC's then put me in a difficult position as its obvious it is Mola-Mola, and I can't then be critical, as I would infringe the posting rules. Moreover, I personally don't want to disrespect anybody else's work.
 
That said, I have designed PWM based chip DAC's - way back in 2002. I got very good measured performance but I could not get 350 dB noise shaping performance nor could I reconstruct transients to nS accuracy with it as there are fundamental limitations to PWM.
 
Rob 

 

[pkcpga]

Do you mean that Mojo sounds better than the Yaggy?

I actually thought the Yggdrasil didn't sound great when I demod it for two days. I was very unimpressed, was very unrefined sounding and a bit closed in sounding when used for two channel speakers. I was planning on replacing a naim DAC in my office with the Yggdrasil but it went back after two days, I think my mojo even sounds more refined and has better separation with less grain sound than the Yggdrasil.

 

[theveterans]

  Do you mean that Mojo sounds better than the Yaggy?

 
You have to demo to know. To me, Mojo sounds more analog than any Schiit's multibit DAC, but if you like "dynamic" sound, you might prefer it especially if you listen to a lot of pop, edm and compressed music. For classical, jazz, soft music, Mojo beats it by miles IMO.

 

[shuttlepod]

 
 
Stillpoints Ultra SS ($250 each)
 

 

 
The person that recommended these to me was confident these would represent the best bang for the buck with the DAVE.  In his words, "They should blow away all your rubber footers and perform almost as well as the Stillpoint Ultra 5s for a lot less money than the Ultra 5s."  As such, I had high expectations.  I started with 3 footers but 4 were more effective.  These are built to a very high standard and are comprised of heavy pieces of high-grade stainless steel.  They are height adjustable and add an elegant touch to the DAVE as they complement the stainless steel rivets and chrome controls on the top of the DAVE.  Based on aesthetic alone, I would have been happy to move to these footers.  Interestingly, these footers sounded only slightly better than the Black Raviolis.  They resulted in a definite uptick in clarity and detail with better-defined bass compared to no isolation and while they are better than the Black Raviolis (which I could barely discern under blind testing), I found the difference to be too small to pay nearly $900 more.  I found a similar level of improvement against the Black Raviolis under my High Fidelity Cables MC-6 Hemisphere line conditioner.  Where the Ultra SSs proved their worth were under my Oppo SACD transport.  Under the Oppo, both Stillpoints reigned supreme.
 
 
 

 
Thank you, Roy, for your usual thorough and entertaining roundup of various isolation devices. I have a few thoughts on the subject. First, while I think that isolation is generally undervalued by most audiophiles and is critical to getting the best out of a system, I have personally found that certain components benefit from isolation more than others, and the DAVE is less sensitive to vibration than other components. In fact, almost every other component in my system has benefited more from isolation treatments than DAVE. Thus, my primary turntable sits on a wall-mounted rack, which isolates it from my suspended oak floor. This was a huge improvement. I have eight Stillpoints Ultra SS under my speakers; again, a huge improvement. I'm a big fan of Stillpoints, and it appears that the consensus among Stillpoints users is that they are most effective with the following components (in descending order):  speakers, power supplies and power conditioners, amplifiers, source components. That is certainly my experience. In my system, Stillpoints have outperformed everything else I have tried (which is certainly not comprehensive), including various cones, cork and rubber devices, Finite Elemente Ceraballs, and spikes and various interfaces for spikes.   
 
My solution for the DAVE is to use the Stillpoints Ultra Minis, which are half the price of the Ultra SS ($125 vs. $250). The Minis are designed for components weighing up to 50 pounds, so the DAVE obviously fits the bill. And, in my opinion, they look better than the Ultra SS under the DAVE because of their smaller footprint, while still retaining good aesthetic compatibility. As Roy said, Stillpoints provide better clarity and detail. I find that the overall sound is more focused and easier to follow. But with DAVE, we are talking a fairly small incremental improvement, nothing transformational. DAVE sounds pretty damn good just sitting on a solid, stable surface. 
 
Here is a picture of my DAVE with the Minis under them. You will notice that I also have the IKEA cutting board ($15), which I have found to be an ideal interface for the Stillpoints.
 

 

[romaz]

 
I have a few thoughts on the subject. First, while I think that isolation is generally undervalued by most audiophiles and is critical to getting the best out of a system, I have personally found that certain components benefit from isolation more than others, and the DAVE is less sensitive to vibration than other components. In fact, almost every other component in my system has benefited more from isolation treatments than DAVE. 

I completely agree, Jon.  As I had stated, during my initial evaluation of the DAVE, I heard no difference between the DAVE without isolation and the DAVE sitting on a pair of highly regarded HRS Nimbus footers.  When my DAVE first came in, it sounded so good just the way it was that when I selected the Acoustic Revive TB-38H, it had more to do with aesthetic appeal than vibrational control.  While vibrational control devices like the Black Raviolis or the Stillpoints do make a difference, the differences, while meaningful, are indeed subtle and this is a testament to the comprehensive thoughtfulness of the DAVE's design.  This is why I had a hard time justifying the Stillpoints Ultra SS or Ultra 5 with the DAVE.  For the price of even 3 Ultra SSs, you can buy a microRendu which would provide considerably more bang for the buck.  While the Stillpoints were better than the Black Raviolis, the difference was just barely discernible making them difficult to recommend if value is a priority.  At half the price, I agree that the Ulta Minis are a much better value and your particular setup is a very attractive one.  
 
Regarding the TB-38H, I am using this also as a tuning aid.  If your system borders on being bright, I would avoid it but the warmth that the hickory plinth provides is unmistakeable.  For those who seek to subtly alter the tone of their DAVE, consider trying your DAVE under a variety of plinths (granite, MDF, plastic, maple, cherry, hickory, etc).  

 

[EVOLVIST]

My DAVE will come in tomorrow.

I'm going to give it about 200hrs burn in time, which I'm sure is overkill (maybe) before I give it a listen. I was shocked, though, that the last amp I purchased I gave 400hrs burn in and it didn't change one bit. My iDSD micro sure changed after about 300hrs.

Anyway, when I get the DAVE in I'll order 4 BRs. If I don't find enough of a change I can always set them under my computer tower to be on the safe side, since the tower occupies the same desk (from Ikea) that my PS300 and current DAC resides.

I've been contemplating getting a BPT balanced isolation transformer to go between my wall jack and my PS300 Power Plant, but I'm really not sure if it will do any good, since the PS300 turns the juice into a nice and clean sine wave. Being that the DAVE is galvanically isolated, I'm not sure there's much I can do. I might use the bread on some upgraded power cables, instead.

I'm really vibing on the KISS method for this rig. After all, the shortest distance between two points is a straight line.

 

[lovethatsound]

My DAVE will come in tomorrow.

I'm going to give it about 200hrs burn in time, which I'm sure is overkill (maybe) before I give it a listen. I was shocked, though, that the last amp I purchased I gave 400hrs burn in and it didn't change one bit. My iDSD micro sure changed after about 300hrs.

Anyway, when I get the DAVE in I'll order 4 BRs. If I don't find enough of a change I can always set them under my computer tower to be on the safe side, since the tower occupies the same desk (from Ikea) that my PS300 and current DAC resides.

I've been contemplating getting a BPT balanced isolation transformer to go between my wall jack and my PS300 Power Plant, but I'm really not sure if it will do any good, since the PS300 turns the juice into a nice and clean sine wave. Being that the DAVE is galvanically isolated, I'm not sure there's much I can do. I might use the bread on some upgraded power cables, instead.

I'm really vibing on the KISS method for this rig. After all, the shortest distance between two points is a straight line.

Enjoy your Dave straight away,listen to it getting better with burn in,or as some might say.brain in.your in for a great feast of musical realism.