CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[jlbrach]

it seems to me that the dave is now just the body and the upgrades come from the m-scaler so I dont expect anything new regarding the dave itself

 

[RustyGates]

You're a rare bird that can go from HMS/TT2 to a Mojo 2 and not be tormented at the sonic regression—not saying that the Mojo 2 sounds terrible.

Early on, I went from a Qutest down to a Mojo on my main system and it was relatively painful. I couldn't tolerate anything less than Qutest, so I went up to HMS/TT2. If I were to hear a Dave, I might again become tormented.

Yes, but this is a Mojo 2, not Mojo. There have been serious circuit design changes between the two, so much so that I'm not overly tormented going from MTT2 to Mojo 2.

 

[piguetpolo]

Since you had both the Qutest and TT2, how is the TT-2 better than the Qutest?

The TT2 is warm, lush and fuller sounding. It's got a much wider, richer deeper soundstage and the sonics are more immersive because of it. The TT2 experience akin to watching an IMAX movie where the stereo imaging fills ones entire view.

The Qutest has a sharper, leaner and cooler sound. The stereo image is narrower and the center stereo image feels more distant. The details are there but recedes due to this distance.

While the Qutest doesn't work for me in my main system where I'm sat 11 ft from speakers, it's sonic characteristic works very well in a near-field desktop setup. This is where I currently have it and it sounds amazing as the more distant and narrower stereo imaging works well when speakers are 3 feet away.

Yes, but this is a Mojo 2, not Mojo. There have been serious circuit design changes between the two, so much so that I'm not overly tormented going from MTT2 to Mojo 2.

Relative to the Qutest, the original Mojo was very vague, flabby and bloated in the bass. I got rid of it super fast and actually thought about getting the Mojo 2 to replace but no retailers had them in stock.

 

[RustyGates]

I very much doubt Chord will update DAVE in it's current form, I think the new MScaler is where any potential improvement/update will be implemented . As far as Chord is concerned, I believe Rob is already well into the development of a new high end DAC, not a direct replacement for the DAVE but a totally new unit, I suspect price wise it will be bracketed with their current top of the range pre and power amplifiers.

The problem is the new high-end DAC with all the power pulse array stuff to drive speakers is going to cost silly money. There needs to be something reference level at the current DAVE price point.

And adding more features for DAVE on the digital side by throwing it into another separate box for an additional 10k+ is just a big nope, and that won't help with the analogue side either.

 

[LucyWu]

I would be interested to understand the objective data that leads people to conclude that the DAC market has moved technically and substantially forward since the release of DAVE. There has been - as far as I can see - no real technical innovation since then.

I see much footling-about with things like resistor ladder dacs (not in any way new, but merely reworking of technology that goes back to the '70's).There are other FPGA technologies, but non seem any more advanced than Rob's tech. Rob has himself complained about the slow movement forward of FPGA chips.

New iterations of existing tech (DCS APEX or updated ESS/AKM chips) do not really move the game on beyond the usual more-of-the-same "improvements" that merely tidy up the compromises of earlier versions.

The tech in the Tambaqui is ultimately very similar to the Dave, as is the DCS. Linn may have done something fresh with the Klimax DAC tech, but I haven't seen anything that points to real innovation.

Not picking a fight here, just curious.

 

[griff500]

@LucyWu Perhaps people confuse features with benefits.

 

[LucyWu]

@griff500 - absolutely. Features are great but are often just marketing and a way to extract more margin from an existing platform, which is fine (we need these companies to stay solvent).

My own wish would be for a DAVE-lite, basically removing the WTA1 and focussing on optimising the final upsampling/noise shaping process and the best performing pulse array/output stage. Offline upsampling allows me to bypass the WTA1 filter (which seems the most resource heavy part of the overall process) so I have paid for a lot of FPGA that just not being used. From a product point of view separating the WTA1 out seems to make sense for Chord too as customers could buy an Mscaler version that suits their needs/budget but still get the benefits of the better pulse array/noise shaping that separates a DAVE from the lower end models which use fewer elements.

I know this may horrify Rob (who will always believe his WTA filter beats anyone else's upsampling filter, of course) so I accept it's unlikely to happen, but ultimately it may lead me away from Chord DACs because I am happy with my offline upsampling solution. Tried to switch back to a Qutest but it lacks the sheer transpareny and energy I hear playing the same upsampled files through my DAVE.

 

[Godbluffer]

Yes, but this is a Mojo 2, not Mojo. There have been serious circuit design changes between the two, so much so that I'm not overly tormented going from MTT2 to Mojo 2.

Absolutely! The first Mojo sounds overly warm and smoothed over compared with the Mojo, which is much more revealing, yet with no hint of glare or harshness on top.

 

[audio_1]

I would be interested to understand the objective data that leads people to conclude that the DAC market has moved technically and substantially forward since the release of DAVE. There has been - as far as I can see - no real technical innovation since then.

I see much footling-about with things like resistor ladder dacs (not in any way new, but merely reworking of technology that goes back to the '70's).There are other FPGA technologies, but non seem any more advanced than Rob's tech. Rob has himself complained about the slow movement forward of FPGA chips.

New iterations of existing tech (DCS APEX or updated ESS/AKM chips) do not really move the game on beyond the usual more-of-the-same "improvements" that merely tidy up the compromises of earlier versions.

The tech in the Tambaqui is ultimately very similar to the Dave, as is the DCS. Linn may have done something fresh with the Klimax DAC tech, but I haven't seen anything that points to real innovation.

Not picking a fight here, just curious.

I don't believe there is objective data that leads people to conclude that the DAC market has moved on technically. People appear to like change. Some also believe that more expensive brands are better. Firmware updates aren't necessary if the firmware is optimum from a sound quality and functionality pov from the start. The new Dave and Mscaler should move the DAC market on technically and substantially imho.

 

[naynay]

After a number of people asking about my DIY BNC ferrite core cables, referring to the latest and final ones using HFB159079-100 with Oyaide Cable and Oyaide BNC plugs, and if I had compared them to the Wave Storm Reference BNC cables.

Well I have finally got around to completing the test.

I would like to thank my friend who was kind enough to loan me his Wave Storm Reference cables.

Cylindrical Ferrite Cores used in my cables as said previously are HFB159079-100

I used two of the Audiowise SRC-DX so I can quickly switch from BNC 4 input to BNC 3 input on the Dave Dac when testing.

How I set things up.

Identical USB going out of Antipodes Server to USB input of the first Audiowise SRC-DX then my DIY BNC cable goes out of Audiowise SRC-DX BNC output into Dave BNC 4 input.

Identical USB going out of Antipodes Server to USB input of the second Audiowise SRC-DX then Wave Storm Reference BNC cable goes out of Audiowise SRC-DX BNC output into Dave BNC 3 input.

My findings when playing back music is that there was no change in sound when switching from Dave BNC 4 input having my DIY BNC cable to Dave BNC 3 input having Wave Storm Reference BNC cable.

YMMV

Hopefully this has answered all those that messaged me asking. Anyone wanting to have a go at DIY BNC that is unsure with anything such as say the soldering or materials I am happy to help just drop me a PM.

Thanks

These are my DIY cables used in the test.

 

[griff500]

Could be confirmation bias.

 

[Reactcore]

when switching from Dave BNC 4 input having my DIY BNC cable to Dave BNC 3 input having Wave Storm Reference BNC

I think your test method is not right.. to see how one cable rejects RF vs the other cable you should always disconnect the non used cable..

 

[naynay]

I think your test method is not right.. to see how one cable rejects RF vs the other cable you should always disconnect the non used cable..

That was just one of many tests I did. I also ran them separately into Dave and through M Scaler.

 

[zen87192]

Happy Chinese New Year to all our Far Eastern Brothers & Sisters of HeadFi. May we all 'Rabbit' on about our HiFi wonders and woes for a Prosperous New Year.
Gong Hei Fat Choy!

 

[jlbrach]

I have owned my Dave for several years and have listened to numerous new DAC's and as much as I love to switch things up and own new things nothing I have heard in the same zip code price wise has convinced me to move away from my dave