CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[Reactcore]

@Rob Watts

Any chance of a DAVE revision with the newer FPGA architecture and UHD DSP, along with updated analogue circuitry?

With adding a Mscaler (feeding 705/768k), a big part of the code in Daves FPFA is bypassed and more space is not directly needed.

Ive asked Rob if this 'free' space while Mscaled could be switchable allocated to the final noise shaper to improve its small signal accuracy.. but i was told the current hardware circuitry is then the limiting factor.

As far as i understood the biggest steps are to be taken in further refining the transient reconstruction which will be done in the coming xMscaler that can be added to Dave as a 'upgrade'

Then it comes the waiting for actual shipments which can become a pain cause of Brexit and ..if i win the fight with my wallet

 

[RustyGates]

With adding a Mscaler (feeding 705/768k), a big part of the code in Daves FPFA is bypassed and more space is not directly needed.

Ive asked Rob if this 'free' space while Mscaled could be switchable allocated to the final noise shaper to improve its small signal accuracy.. but i was told the current hardware circuitry is then the limiting factor.

As far as i understood the biggest steps are to be taken in further refining the transient reconstruction which will be done in the coming xMscaler that can be added to Dave as a 'upgrade'

Then it comes the waiting for actual shipments which can become a pain cause of Brexit and ..if i win the fight with my wallet

The reason why I ask is because I've recently "downgraded" from the MTT2 to just a Mojo 2, with the intent of feeding it to an Enleum AMP-23R, then a new pair of speakers.

Currently, I've just got my HD650's being driven off the Mojo 2 while I wait for the AMP-23R to arrive, and I can't believe how good it is, not MTT2 good (and fair enough because the output stage is limited), but just as a DAC/Amp solution in such a small package, being fed TOSLINK, it sounds amazing, and the DSP function is such a useful feature. It's a lot closer to the TT2 than say the Qutest I reckon.

Whatever Rob was doing through Covid, it's definitely paid off and its obvious there have been big changes in his FPGA and maybe analogue architecture.

I mean, DAVE is already closing in on 8 years old, it can't be the flagship DAC product of Chord being so outdated relative to the architecture of the Mojo 2. I'd like to move up to a DAVE, but simply can't justify dropping reference level money on a product that's not up to date and missing big features such as UHD DSP.

 

[Ciggavelli]

The reason why I ask is because I've recently "downgraded" from the MTT2 to just a Mojo 2, with the intent of feeding it to an Enleum AMP-23R, then a new pair of speakers.

Currently, I've just got my HD650's being driven off the Mojo 2 while I wait for the AMP-23R to arrive, and I can't believe how good it is, not MTT2 good (and fair enough because the output stage is limited), but just as a DAC/Amp solution in such a small package, being fed TOSLINK, it sounds amazing, and the DSP function is such a useful feature. It's a lot closer to the TT2 than say the Qutest I reckon.

Whatever Rob was doing through Covid, it's definitely paid off and its obvious there have been big changes in his FPGA and maybe analogue architecture.

I mean, DAVE is already closing in on 8 years old, it can't be the flagship DAC product of Chord being so outdated relative to the architecture of the Mojo 2. I'd like to move up to a DAVE, but simply can't justify dropping reference level money on a product that's not up to date and missing big features such as UHD DSP.

That’s Chord’s problem at the moment. They are missing up to date features. I’ll probably get the new Choral M-Scaler if it’s $10k or less. Any more, it makes little sense given the competition. I guess if it’s revolutionary that could be different, but I don’t think that’ll be the case. $10K for the new M-Scaler and then $13 or $14K for a DAVE, puts the price in a whole other league with enticing competition. Then if you want to add an LPS, that’s another $5-10K depending on the architecture. We’re now looking at substantial money for what is essentially 8 year old tech. If I was a new buyer, who didn’t have a DAVE, I wouldn’t even consider it

 

[DJW50]

That’s Chord’s problem at the moment. They are missing up to date features. I’ll probably get the new Choral M-Scaler if it’s $10k or less any more, it makes little sense given the competition. I guess if it’s revolutionary that could be different, but I don’t think that’ll be the case. $10K for the new M-Scaler and then $13 or $14K for a DAVE, puts the price in a whole other league with enticing competition. Then if you want to add an lps, that’s another $5-10K depending on the architecture. We’re now looking at substantial money for what is essentially 8 year old tech. If I was a new buyer, who didn’t have a DAVE, I wouldn’t even consider it

Not sure if this is of any help but I recently had a Mola Mola Tanbaquie on trial for a few days, I've been considering buying a DAVE so I phoned Sevenoaks who very kindly sent me a new DAVE to try. For about 4 days I listened to both and it was a very close run thing for me. I listen to mainly rock and blues music and have a few 'go to' tracks and in all honesty I couldn't decide on the sound preference so in the end it was down to who did the best deal so I bought the DAVE.
I'd consider the Mola Mola a bang up to date unit and it didn't have anything over the 'old' DAVE for my sort of music. But I guess most important to me is not the age but what it does.
I bought a pair of the original Utopia's new in March last year and then Focal brought out the new model so I guess it's just pot luck when you buy something and it is replaced with a new version 6 months later. But I still love both units.

 

[Ciggavelli]

Not sure if this is of any help but I recently had a Mola Mola Tanbaquie on trial for a few days, I've been considering buying a DAVE so I phoned Sevenoaks who very kindly sent me a new DAVE to try. For about 4 days I listened to both and it was a very close run thing for me. I listen to mainly rock and blues music and have a few 'go to' tracks and in all honesty I couldn't decide on the sound preference so in the end it was down to who did the best deal so I bought the DAVE.
I'd consider the Mola Mola a bang up to date unit and it didn't have anything over the 'old' DAVE for my sort of music. But I guess most important to me is not the age but what it does.
I bought a pair of the original Utopia's new in March last year and then Focal brought out the new model so I guess it's just pot luck when you buy something and it is replaced with a new version 6 months later. But I still love both units.

I want user upgradable firmware, true balanced connections, and other up to date features. Honestly I have no complaints with my SJ mDAVE in terms of sound quality. I don’t know how it could be better, but I’m sure it could be. I’m very tempted by MSB, DCS and the like, but I can’t audition them where I live. I might fly somewhere and audition them, but that’s still not the same as an in home audition with all my surrounding equipment. The price of $30K dacs is substantial, so I won’t blind buy. And that’s why I still have my SJ mDAVE

 

[Reactcore]

We’re now looking at substantial money for what is essentially 8 year old tech. If I was a new buyer, who didn’t have a DAVE, I wouldn’t even consider it

Theres also the fact 2nd and even 3rd hand Daves can be found for reasonable prices since there more circulating in the market..
And a 8y old Dave sounds the same as a new one.

Lol as far as tech getting old.. i keep enjoying my 1970 made Bose 901 drivers in 1994 self made speakers

 

[Ciggavelli]

Theres also the fact 2nd and even 3rd hand Daves can be found for reasonable prices since there more circulating in the market..
And a 8y old Dave sounds the same as a new one.

Lol as far as tech getting old.. i keep enjoying my 1970 made Bose 901 drivers in 1994 self made speakers

Speakers are different then digital equipment though. I bet you aren’t still using 1990s self built computers in your house

 

[RustyGates]

Not sure if this is of any help but I recently had a Mola Mola Tanbaquie on trial for a few days, I've been considering buying a DAVE so I phoned Sevenoaks who very kindly sent me a new DAVE to try. For about 4 days I listened to both and it was a very close run thing for me. I listen to mainly rock and blues music and have a few 'go to' tracks and in all honesty I couldn't decide on the sound preference so in the end it was down to who did the best deal so I bought the DAVE.
I'd consider the Mola Mola a bang up to date unit and it didn't have anything over the 'old' DAVE for my sort of music. But I guess most important to me is not the age but what it does.
I bought a pair of the original Utopia's new in March last year and then Focal brought out the new model so I guess it's just pot luck when you buy something and it is replaced with a new version 6 months later. But I still love both units.

Same deal here, I actually had my sights on a MM Tambaqui the past half year, and the reason why I sold my MTT2 was so I could eventually purchase a reference level DAC after I have my HiFi set-up sorted, with the Mojo 2 being an interim DAC (which is very good).

See, B.Putzeys finished the Tambaqui design back in 2013; the analogue circuitry is phenomenal even by today's standards, but what makes it an up to date DAC, is the fact it is software defined, just a Chord (SHARC DSP vs FPGA code), but it can be updated via FW update, and quite a few updates have happened over the years.

So unless DAVE is updated, I don't think I'll be able to justify it over Tambaqui, especially when recent price hikes have made is even more expensive than the Tambaqui here in AUS.

 

[Reactcore]

Speakers are different then digital equipment though. I bet you aren’t still using 1990s self built computers in your house

Lol i was waiting for that response..

In terms of speakers a 1990 computer is equavalent to a early 1900's invented speaker driver.. No my 1970 drivers had been refined compared to the first types.

Same as a 2015 made DAC is already far up the ladder to possible improvents

 

[Ciggavelli]

Lol i was waiting for that response..

In terms of speakers a 1990 computer is equavalent to a early 1900's invented speaker driver.. No my 1970 drivers had been refined compared to the first types.

Same as a 2015 made DAC is already far up the ladder to possible improvents

It’s still not up to date compared to competitors. When I first started getting serious into HiFi the DAVE was the pinnacle in my eyes. I had the Hugo 2 fell in love with it, got the TT2 also loved it, then got the DAVE. Now that I have had the DAVE for a few years, I came to realize the pinnacle is higher than I thought.

Keep in mind I have a fully modded Dave with Sean Jacobs Linear Power Supplies. I love the DAVE. But that still doesn’t blind me. Other dacs have user upgradeable firmware that improves sound quality and brings about new features. That’s Chord’s biggest flaw. No user upgradeable firmware is kinda unacceptable in 2023.

 

[Reactcore]

It’s still not up to date compared to competitors. When I first started getting serious into HiFi the DAVE was the pinnacle in my eyes. I had the Hugo 2 fell in love with it, got the TT2 also loved it, then got the DAVE. Now that I have had the DAVE for a few years, I came to realize the pinnacle is higher than I thought.

Keep in mind I have a fully modded Dave with Sean Jacobs Linear Power Supplies. I love the DAVE. But that still doesn’t blind me. Other dacs have user upgradeable firmware that improves sound quality and brings about new features. That’s Chord’s biggest flaw. No user upgradeable firmware is kinda unacceptable in 2023.

Its not that i dont agree with you on this

I guess its Chord's marketing policy that they freeze their products when released and offer upgrades only by adding components like Mscaler Poly etc.

Im not bothered by it since most software features i would like and upgrade are in my player gear anyway..

 

[Powersquat]

So unless DAVE is updated, I don't think I'll be able to justify it over Tambaqui, especially when recent price hikes have made is even more expensive than the Tambaqui here in AUS.

I very much doubt Chord will update DAVE in it's current form, I think the new MScaler is where any potential improvement/update will be implemented . As far as Chord is concerned, I believe Rob is already well into the development of a new high end DAC, not a direct replacement for the DAVE but a totally new unit, I suspect price wise it will be bracketed with their current top of the range pre and power amplifiers.

 

[MvRBE10]

Hope to see the new dave and scaler soon so we can try it at home.

 

[piguetpolo]

Same deal here, I actually had my sights on a MM Tambaqui the past half year, and the reason why I sold my MTT2 was so I could eventually purchase a reference level DAC after I have my HiFi set-up sorted, with the Mojo 2 being an interim DAC (which is very good).

You're a rare bird that can go from HMS/TT2 to a Mojo 2 and not be tormented at the sonic regression—not saying that the Mojo 2 sounds terrible.

Early on, I went from a Qutest down to a Mojo on my main system and it was relatively painful. I couldn't tolerate anything less than Qutest, so I went up to HMS/TT2. If I were to hear a Dave, I might again become tormented.

 

[GuiltyRocker]

You're a rare bird that can go from HMS/TT2 to a Mojo 2 and not be tormented at the sonic regression—not saying that the Mojo 2 sounds terrible.

Early on, I went from a Qutest down to a Mojo on my main system and it was relatively painful. I couldn't tolerate anything less than Qutest, so I went up to HMS/TT2. If I were to hear a Dave, I might again become tormented.

Since you had both the Qutest and TT2, how is the TT-2 better than the Qutest?