[adrianm]

Quite possibly, but not what I’m asking in regards to dedicated high end power supplies …

I wouldn't count on it.

 

[marcmccalmont]

Quite possibly, but not what I’m asking in regards to dedicated high end power supplies …

Not sure what your after? I isolate Dave using tos optical connections and all of my equipment is plugged into a different outlet on the powerplant. What more is there to do? I guess batteries would guarantee isolation at all frequencies but I think Sean and others tested batteries against newer regulators and found lower output impedance and better sq with the regulators. I’ve never done the experiment.

 

[The Jester]

I’m sure your system works very well, and probably asking the wrong person, but consider someone just starting out and looking at a Chord DAC plus MScaler, apart from just plugging everything together with the supplied components what would be the minimum extra expense needed to take it to the next level by first breaking the well reported RF loop, will one item do the job on its own or is an upgrade of the dual BNC connectors, an upgraded PSU and a power regenerator all needed ?

 

[marcmccalmont]

I’m sure your system works very well, and probably asking the wrong person, but consider someone just starting out and looking at a Chord DAC plus MScaler, apart from just plugging everything together with the supplied components what would be the minimum extra expense needed to take it to the next level by first breaking the well reported RF loop, will one item do the job on its own or is an upgrade of the dual BNC connectors, an upgraded PSU and a power regenerator all needed ?

So your talking about the infamous “ground plane modulation” When I had a Blu2 there was a noticeable improvement with ferrited coax cables between Blu2 and Dave. Since then the Mscaler was designed with internal ferrites. And a company called audiowise has a opto dx optical isolator which would mitigate the issue and coax cables with ferrites. I did not replace my Blu2 with an mscaler so I haven’t done the experiment. Some swear by the mscaler others don’t I’d like to try one in my system to see if I like it. A friend of mine with MBL speakers didn’t. It cast too large of a sound stage for his taste and as he measured jitter the upscaling proportionately increased the jitter. Chord claimes Dave is immune to jitter but as my sources jitter was reduced (Aurender N10 and ProJect cd box rs) the sq increased.

 

[The Jester]

So your talking about the infamous “ground plane modulation” When I had a Blu2 there was a noticeable improvement with ferrited coax cables between Blu2 and Dave. Since then the Mscaler was designed with internal ferrites. And a company called audiowise has a opto dx optical isolator which would mitigate the issue and coax cables with ferrites. I did not replace my Blu2 with an mscaler so I haven’t done the experiment. Some swear by the mscaler others don’t I’d like to try one in my system to see if I like it. A friend of mine with MBL speakers didn’t. It cast too large of a sound stage for his taste and as he measured jitter the upscaling proportionately increased the jitter. Chord claimes Dave is immune to jitter but as my sources jitter was reduced (Aurender N10 and ProJect cd box rs) the sq increased.

Enlightening … thanks …
Interesting too are the varied preferences from one persons ideal of a soundstage that has width and depth with the individual speakers audibly vanishing, usually due to more accurate transients and low level signals, to the other extreme of those preferring monaural recordings for the more realistic centre stage image of a solo vocalist, and even some amps providing a “Mono” switch for a similar effect, plus all those somewhere in between …. Like a fine wine, what makes some people “heady” just gives others a headache …

 

[phonyx]

Isn’t there a post by Rob Watts back at the start of this thread where he ran the Dave from a 12v DC source battery and measured zero improvement? So. If a battery is cleaner than a linear PSU, and the battery gave no improvement due to the design of the Dave’s power circuitry, linear PSU’s won’t add anything and encouraging someone to spend money in this area would be irresponsible. It’s also a very biased opinion when you do a sighted listening test with a designed of linear power supplies. Even suggesting the length of the umbilicus makes a difference…. Ok. Rob Watts says no difference measurement or audible, but a linear PSU builder can ‘hear’ an umbilicus?

 

[Ciggavelli]

Isn’t there a post by Rob Watts back at the start of this thread where he ran the Dave from a 12v DC source battery and measured zero improvement? So. If a battery is cleaner than a linear PSU, and the battery gave no improvement due to the design of the Dave’s power circuitry, linear PSU’s won’t add anything and encouraging someone to spend money in this area would be irresponsible. It’s also a very biased opinion when you do a sighted listening test with a designed of linear power supplies. Even suggesting the length of the umbilicus makes a difference…. Ok. Rob Watts says no difference measurement or audible, but a linear PSU builder can ‘hear’ an umbilicus?

The DC4 makes a big difference. Try it for yourself, and you’ll see. Also, I do not believe Rob tried the DC4 LPS. Not all linear power supplies are the same

 

[MatW]

The DC4 makes a big difference. Try it for yourself, and you’ll see. Also, I do not believe Rob tried the DC4 LPS. Not all linear power supplies are the same

There is no way to A/B compare, correct? So you're saying that based on memory?

 

[Ciggavelli]

There is no way to A/B compare, correct? So you're saying that based on memory?

You can easily install and uninstall the different power supplies. I guess if you had 2 DAVEs you could do a quick A/B test. But, yeah from memory, after uninstalling the DC4 and going back to the stock, you can quickly hear differences.

 

[MatW]

You can easily install and uninstall the different power supplies. I guess if you had 2 DAVEs you could do a quick A/B test. But, yeah from memory, after uninstalling the DC4 and going back to the stock, you can quickly hear differences.

How long does it take to change over?

 

[Ciggavelli]

How long does it take to change over?

25 minutes the first time, 10 minutes once you get used to it. You can cut down like an extra 5 minutes if you don’t put the top back on. It’s really easy actually. Though, I was a bit intimidated the first time

 

[MatW]

25 minutes the first time, 10 minutes once you get used to it. You can cut down like an extra 5 minutes if you don’t put the top back on. It’s really easy actually. Though, I was a bit intimidated the first time

Thanks. I don't trust my auditory memory enough to be able to discern subtle changes with 10-15 minutes in between. Even when changing cables, which takes less than a minute. I need to be able to switch over instantaneously, like with the two DACs I've got hooked up to my setup two. I'd love to hear the difference between 2 Dave's with different power supplies, but fat chance of that ever happening...

 

[Ciggavelli]

Thanks. I don't trust my auditory memory enough to be able to discern subtle changes with 10-15 minutes in between. Even when changing cables, which takes less than a minute. I need to be able to switch over instantaneously, like with the two DACs I've got hooked up to my setup two. I'd love to hear the difference between 2 Dave's with different power supplies, but fat chance of that ever happening...

I think Nick did just that actually. I don’t remember where he posted it, but I recall him writing that everybody preferred the DC4 to stock. Maybe he can chime in if he wants.

 

[Ciggavelli]

Here’s the DC4 installation instructions I found on another site

https://www.hifiwigwam.com/forum/to...e-and-mscaler/?do=findComment&comment=2791750

It really is that easy

 

[Triode User]

There is no way to A/B compare, correct? So you're saying that based on memory?

I originally compared side by side with a stock Dave and a Dc4 Dave. Then again that was how we compared when Sean Jacobs came to my house on Thursday. He wanted to use the standard Dave as a reference point for various other options he was trying. Yes it needs two Daves to do that to be sure but the effect is so profound that it is easily heard after swopping the supply on a single Dave.

One thing from Thursday’s listening was that the length of the Dave dc umbilical is important. 1m was clearly worse in my system. Best was sitting the Dave on top of the DC4 with very short (think 150mm, 6 inches) umbilicals but I wouldn’t lose too much sleep over 200mm or 300mm cables.