[radnor]

anyone have extensive experience with mDAVE VS mTT2??? Difference worth the upgrade?

 

[ecwl]

If MQA is so horrendous, I'm curious as to why ultra-high end manufacturers like DCS, MSB, PS Audio, and Berkeley Audio, all of whom produce DACs that are as well-regarded or better than anything Chord produces, include MQA unfolding. Presumably these companies can pick and choose whatever formats they want to support, as their clientele are exceedingly picky about sound can afford the best sources money can buy. Is Rob Watts suggesting that these DACs are producing crappy sound? Or offering garbage tech that doesn't actually work? I get that he has strong feelings about MQA, but I suspect there's more nuance to the story than the MQA-as-bad-tech-and-evil-business-conspiracy offerings. Personally, I listen to a lot of MQA Tidal files via a Topping D90 DAC and they sound great -- slightly better than Qobuz Hi-Res. When I'm able to audition gear in person, I may upgrade to a DAVE or something of its ilk. I'm really curious to do an A/B.

My personal take on the matter is that other companies also recognize that there is a lack of accuracy in the reproduction in transients in 44.1kHz using standard upsampling filters. Since they are not able to make FPGA’s to do the long tap length upsampling that Chord DACs do, they are trying to come up with a workaround by using a short tap length MQA filter that plays back MQA encoded music. Ultimately, there is no free lunch. When I listen to MQA files, with Chord DACs or MQA DACs, I actually find that while some notes have more accurate transient responses (Guitar string plucks, drum strikes, piano strikes, hand clapping), others have slightly smeared transients. In fact, for me, it is quite discombobulating, because I’m used to the more accurate transients for every note via Chord DACs.
Now many people, particularly fans of MQA, disagree with me. If you enjoy your DACs and your MQA music, who am I to question how you spend your money and enjoy your music. But since the question was asked, here’s my two cents

 

[Triode User]

anyone have extensive experience with mDAVE VS mTT2??? Difference worth the upgrade?

I owned both at the same time and so was able to play side by side over a prolonged period.

To my ears the upgrade in sound quality is easily worth the cost.

 

[ClicketEKlack]

My personal take on the matter is that other companies also recognize that there is a lack of accuracy in the reproduction in transients in 44.1kHz using standard upsampling filters. Since they are not able to make FPGA’s to do the long tap length upsampling that Chord DACs do, they are trying to come up with a workaround by using a short tap length MQA filter that plays back MQA encoded music. Ultimately, there is no free lunch. When I listen to MQA files, with Chord DACs or MQA DACs, I actually find that while some notes have more accurate transient responses (Guitar string plucks, drum strikes, piano strikes, hand clapping), others have slightly smeared transients. In fact, for me, it is quite discombobulating, because I’m used to the more accurate transients for every note via Chord DACs.
Now many people, particularly fans of MQA, disagree with me. If you enjoy your DACs and your MQA music, who am I to question how you spend your money and enjoy your music. But since the question was asked, here’s my two cents

Thanks -- I appreciate the thoughtful reply. I really am just curious. I'm enjoying a mid-fi system right now, hoping to possibly upgrade down the road, and just trying to educate myself about the options out there.

 

[radnor]

I owned both at the same time and so was able to play side by side over a prolonged period.

To my ears the upgrade in sound quality is easily worth the cost.

What’s the delta? 20% bump in tonal mass, stage, realism? Greater than 20%? Just a guess would be nice.

 

[audio_1]

If MQA is so horrendous, I'm curious as to why ultra-high end manufacturers like DCS, MSB, PS Audio, and Berkeley Audio, all of whom produce DACs that are as well-regarded or better than anything Chord produces, include MQA unfolding. Presumably these companies can pick and choose whatever formats they want to support, as their clientele are exceedingly picky about sound can afford the best sources money can buy. Is Rob Watts suggesting that these DACs are producing crappy sound? Or offering garbage tech that doesn't actually work? I get that he has strong feelings about MQA, but I suspect there's more nuance to the story than the MQA-as-bad-tech-and-evil-business-conspiracy offerings. Personally, I listen to a lot of MQA Tidal files via a Topping D90 DAC and they sound great -- slightly better than Qobuz Hi-Res. When I'm able to audition gear in person, I may upgrade to a DAVE or something of its ilk. I'm really curious to do an A/B.

Marketing, that's the main reason. Another must have feature in their opinion. Presumably the other manufactures also don't understand MQA's short comings. The DACs listed may be more expensive than Dave and the M Scaler, but I don't think they're better.

 

[adrianm]

What’s the delta? 20% bump in tonal mass, stage, realism? Greater than 20%? Just a guess would be nice.

When i auditioned the DAVE vs TT2+Mscaler with my Z1R i thought there was just no comparison , so much so that i even forgot adding the M-scaler to the DAVE for a listen. I realized that after i left the store.To me the TT2 kinda sounded like my Sony TA-ZH1ES and the DAVE was a completely different beast,better in every way.
Sounded a lot more real, soundstage may have been slightly smaller but separation and layering was a lot better, resolution was better too, as was timing and positioning.
Gonna give it a couple of months after i get it before adding to M-scaler to compare.

 

[adrianm]

What’s the delta? 20% bump in tonal mass, stage, realism? Greater than 20%? Just a guess would be nice.

Hard to cuantify. For me the thought was " No way the price of that (TT2+HMS) adds up to that (DAVE)". And i had just gotten my previous dac ,the Sony TA, and was over the moon with it, wasn't even considering upgrading for a year or so. I didn't really consider the TT2+HMS to be an upgrade to it. Next week the Sony went back to Amazon (3 month return window due to Covid, so had plenty of time with it).
Maybe if i had harder to drive headphones, like Abyss or Susvara the delta might have been different. The M-Scaler did close the gap a bit but it proved to me that there's a lot more to it than taps. That analogue sound of the Dave is just addictive.
Depending on how much the M-scaler influences that i might just stick with solo Dave.

 

[adrianm]

At one point Rob claimed the Dave is immune to Jitter via usb. I assume that adding an M-scaler and using the BNC inputs that "immunity" goes out the window,right?

 

[JTbbb]

anyone have extensive experience with mDAVE VS mTT2??? Difference worth the upgrade?

Did this in error, cannot see how to delete. So am posting to get shot of it.

 

[radnor]

Hard to cuantify. For me the thought was " No way the price of that (TT2+HMS) adds up to that (DAVE)". And i had just gotten my previous dac ,the Sony TA, and was over the moon with it, wasn't even considering upgrading for a year or so. I didn't really consider the TT2+HMS to be an upgrade to it. Next week the Sony went back to Amazon (3 month return window due to Covid, so had plenty of time with it).
Maybe if i had harder to drive headphones, like Abyss or Susvara the delta might have been different. The M-Scaler did close the gap a bit but it proved to me that there's a lot more to it than taps. That analogue sound of the Dave is just addictive.
Depending on how much the M-scaler influences that i might just stick with solo Dave.

I had the TAZ. mTT2 is substantially better.... TBH I found the TAZ only marginal better than mojopoly Driving balanced Z1R.... maby 10%. Hugo2go much better than taz.... 40%.

 

[adrianm]

I had the TAZ. mTT2 is substantially better.... TBH I found the TAZ only marginal better than mojopoly Driving balanced Z1R.... maby 10%. Hugo2go much better than taz.... 40%.

I actually found it to be at least on par with the TT2 for the 10-15 minutes i compared them, once i heard Dave though everything else was just meh.

 

[radnor]

I actually found it to be at least on par with the TT2 for the 10-15 minutes i compared them, once i heard Dave though everything else was just meh.

did you compare at home or in a store? i had them both at home... the delta was significant.

 

[adrianm]

did you compare at home or in a store? i had them both at home... the delta was significant.

In the store with 3-4 tracks. Though it was the same with the Dave and that delta over both of them was huge. In my second Dave audition comparing them lasted for 10-15 minutes. After that i only wanted to listen to Dave for the next an hour and a half.

 

[x RELIC x]

At one point Rob claimed the Dave is immune to Jitter via usb. I assume that adding an M-scaler and using the BNC inputs that "immunity" goes out the window,right?

the Jitter ‘immunity’ is for all inputs. One would require inputting a source with an unreasonable amount of jitter to make a difference. As he’s said many times, optical is the gold standard with no concern for jitter.

It's frequency locked, not phase locked. So over seconds, it will adjust the created word clock; but will completely ignore any jitter. We can see this on the jitter plots on the DAC; and if I add 2uS of source jitter, there is absolutely no change in measurements. 2uS is over a thousand times bigger than typical source jitter....

Yes. Toslink is the gold standard, and the target to hit with USB - assuming the toslink is bit perfect (and if it's not you will hear the drop-outs easily).