[Triode User]

6mm

The cables that came with my Blu2 were 0mm diameter. In other words I didn't get any.

 

[Christer]

The noise I'm referring to isn't a hiss. Indeed when I first heard it I thought it was something to do with the audience. When I started listening to the lossless stream I realised that it is some problem with the encoding


That sounds like you have your Qutest configured incorrectly. Last year the lossy stream was at 48KHz sampling rate - if it really is 192KHz this year, then that's quite something...


Why did you choose the Anniversary version rather than the normal ASLT? The cost is very significantly higher, which appears to be for that metal "band" that goes all the way around, the baffle finish and the base with spikes. The cost seems a bit excessive... I had thought that the spikes would justify this version, but for that price you can go up to SCM100 ASLT premium veneer.

I've been toying with the idea of ATC SCM150ASLT, but I am also wondering about Kii Three (or Kii Three BXT when it arrives). I'm not sure if I want to run a serious speaker system again, though...

I plan to use the Strada 2/TR 3D system to find out if I find speakers appealing.

Hello again Jawed,
Mea culpa. I checked logged into my account at BBC Radio 3 via my Benchmark and it indicates 24/48khz. The lights on my Qutest is so tiny that I did not see the little red 48khz streak on the right at first.
Very OT here in this thread of course, but with more concerts under my belt now, I wish I could hear the Proms with the warmth and big soundstage of Benchmark DAC2 but without the slight coloration I also hear via my Benchmark DAC2 combined with the sharp transient detail of my Qutest but still maintaining all the meaty flesh on the bones of DAC2.
Like last year's Proms I turn up the volume more via my DAC 2 with some coloration as a side effect but turn it down with Qutest because it sounds a bit harsh and shouty.
Qutest handles Mozart's heavenly last Piano Concerto very well indeed, but I prefer DAC2 with Holst's Planets in the most massive climaxes.
Ironically I am using the very same headphone amp with both DACs but the difference is very obvious.
I guess I have a very neutral headphone amp and two quite different sounding DACs.
But are the Proms really broadcast as 24/48khz?
Cheers Christer .Tomorrow is the 21 of July.
To M-scale or not to M-scale is the question..

 

[Jawed]

Thanks. I saw it on Tidal, but I prefer the better sound quality of local files to internet streaming. I’ve since discovered that the album is available as a download from Bandcamp for £3.00.

Most free jazz and improv is never going to make it to streaming services, but there’s more available than you might think.

I'd totally forgotten about Bandcamp as a place to buy music!

By contrast, HD Tracks is such a disappointing place (with mostly silly prices), I normally don't even bother looking on there.

ah .. I should have been more accurate, my 50s are the straight towers (in the cheapest cherry veneer,which is lovely), but they have the anniversary amp packs. These are all discreet components and have a different and slightly less industrial heat sink. So in the scheme of things they weren’t massively more expensive than the standard ASLs, and I figured since I had a DAVE it would be worth pushing the boat out and getting the better amps. I spent a while discussing their benefits with Ben Lilley of ATC, who I trust.

I didn't realise that there is an "improved" version of the amps. I've had terrible trouble getting any responses to my emails to ATC, which doesn't help.

I had had SCM100 ASLs years ago with standard amps, downsized to 25s when I moved, then went up to the 50ASLTs with Anni amps that I have now. I would find it very difficult to live without ATCs. I have heard the Kii threes, they were very disappointing.

Edited to add: plus I would have thought that Kii Threes would be a poor match for a DAVE as they have their own DACs and heavy DSP.

The designer's preference for minimum phase, with a slowish roll-off that starts below 20KHz (for 44.1KHz audio) is theoretically troubling. But the time alignment shown in a step response is damn near perfect for a multi-driver speaker, so the DSP isn't fundamentally evil.

I'm assuming that feeding DAVE analogue into Kii 3, where the ADC operates with a sampling rate of, say, 384KHz (which is the highest rate Kii 3 accepts when fed digital, far as I can tell) would make the ADC -> DAC process innocuous for audio frequencies, as DAVE will have already output a very heavily band-limited signal, so aliasing damage should be non-existent.

The cardiod directivity is quite an eye-opener though, in theory making the speakers much less troubled by the room. Also being able to place the speakers about 10cm from the wall behind them and to tune the bass roll off to match that positioning is a big deal for room compatibility. Rooms are evil for speakers, which is why I've long been headphones-only.

I'll definitely compare Kii 3 and ATC, eventually...

Like last year's Proms I turn up the volume more via my DAC 2 with some coloration as a side effect but turn it down with Qutest because it sounds a bit harsh and shouty.

This sound quality problem you ascribe to Qutest has symptoms that I associate with an RF problem. If you can feed Qutest with optical that would be a quick test of whether this is an RF problem with the USB feed into Qutest. You must remove the USB connection into Qutest when trying optical to make sure that USB doesn't pollute the results of the test.

Alternatively it might be a problem that your headphone amplifier is experiencing because you are using Qutest. e.g. the power supply for Qutest might be upsetting the amplifier. Seems unlikely to be honest.

Another test is to send music over USB to Qutest from a battery powered laptop or tablet or phone. Disconnecting the digital source from the mains removes the worst path for RF noise that can trouble Qutest.

Now playing: Alexander Hawkins, Evan Parker - Leaps in Leicester

 

[Crgreen]

I'd totally forgotten about Bandcamp as a place to buy music!

By contrast, HD Tracks is such a disappointing place (with mostly silly prices), I normally don't even bother looking on there.


I didn't realise that there is an "improved" version of the amps. I've had terrible trouble getting any responses to my emails to ATC, which doesn't help.


The designer's preference for minimum phase, with a slowish roll-off that starts below 20KHz (for 44.1KHz audio) is theoretically troubling. But the time alignment shown in a step response is damn near perfect for a multi-driver speaker, so the DSP isn't fundamentally evil.

I'm assuming that feeding DAVE analogue into Kii 3, where the ADC operates with a sampling rate of, say, 384KHz (which is the highest rate Kii 3 accepts when fed digital, far as I can tell) would make the ADC -> DAC process innocuous for audio frequencies, as DAVE will have already output a very heavily band-limited signal, so aliasing damage should be non-existent.

The cardiod directivity is quite an eye-opener though, in theory making the speakers much less troubled by the room. Also being able to place the speakers about 10cm from the wall behind them and to tune the bass roll off to match that positioning is a big deal for room compatibility. Rooms are evil for speakers, which is why I've long been headphones-only.

I'll definitely compare Kii 3 and ATC, eventually...


This sound quality problem you ascribe to Qutest has symptoms that I associate with an RF problem. If you can feed Qutest with optical that would be a quick test of whether this is an RF problem with the USB feed into Qutest. You must remove the USB connection into Qutest when trying optical to make sure that USB doesn't pollute the results of the test.

Alternatively it might be a problem that your headphone amplifier is experiencing because you are using Qutest. e.g. the power supply for Qutest might be upsetting the amplifier. Seems unlikely to be honest.

Another test is to send music over USB to Qutest from a battery powered laptop or tablet or phone. Disconnecting the digital source from the mains removes the worst path for RF noise that can trouble Qutest.

Now playing: Alexander Hawkins, Evan Parker - Leaps in Leicester

Given your current listening focus, you might also want to check out the digital downloads available on the cafe OTO website at £6.00 a pop, including a number of Bailey recordings on Incus. “Soho Suites” with Tony Oxley is recommended. And Alexander Hawkins and Konstrukt’s set on OTO’s own label is also worth a listen.

 

[HeeBroG]

@Rob Watts

Hi Rob. Can you comment on the quote below regarding ADC of the output from DAVE into an active speaker for purposes of bass management to counteract room modes.
How would this affect the timing and depth cues you have worked so hard to preserve.

"I'm assuming that feeding DAVE analogue into Kii 3, where the ADC operates with a sampling rate of, say, 384KHz (which is the highest rate Kii 3 accepts when fed digital, far as I can tell) would make the ADC -> DAC process innocuous for audio frequencies, as DAVE will have already output a very heavily band-limited signal, so aliasing damage should be non-existent."

 

[Rob Watts]

I don't want to knock somebody else's product - but sampling at 384k for sure would have problems, and these would be principally transient timing related, as well as the issues involved in adding a ADC and another DAC. I don't know anything about the Kii 3, and I guess it would be perhaps OK if it was limited to bass driver only. If it is carried through to the mid and treble, then for sure depth and transient timing ability would be severely compromised.

 

[AndrewOld]

I didn't realise that there is an "improved" version of the amps. I've had terrible trouble getting any responses to my emails to ATC, which doesn't help.

Try phoning them. With bit of luck you’ll get to speak to Ben Lilley or someone else in the design team. That was how I found out about the anniversary amp option.

 

[AndrewOld]

I don't want to knock somebody else's product - but sampling at 384k for sure would have problems, and these would be principally transient timing related, as well as the issues involved in adding a ADC and another DAC. I don't know anything about the Kii 3, and I guess it would be perhaps OK if it was limited to bass driver only. If it is carried through to the mid and treble, then for sure depth and transient timing ability would be severely compromised.

Hard to see how adding a DAC - ADC before the digital input of the Kiis could possibly be beneficial. Even if if the DAC is a DAVE and it were perfect, the ADC won’t be transparent, so I would have thought the best way to drive the Kiis would be with the original digital signal.

 

[HeeBroG]

I don't want to knock somebody else's product - but sampling at 384k for sure would have problems, and these would be principally transient timing related, as well as the issues involved in adding a ADC and another DAC. I don't know anything about the Kii 3, and I guess it would be perhaps OK if it was limited to bass driver only. If it is carried through to the mid and treble, then for sure depth and transient timing ability would be severely compromised.

Thanks Rob.
Sorry but I didn't intend to put you in an awkward position.
I too considered the the KiiThree's concept but after I committed to the DAVE, I couldn't the get past the ADC and processing.
I think the KiiThree's is however a compelling product for those who don't already have a DAC.

 

[dakabali]

I've experienced a strange issue with the SoTM tXUSBultra when using with BluDave: the sound interrupts randomy for a moment, the screen of Dave activates (is normally blank during playback as configured as Display 4) and then the playback goes on. I've tried to change the cables, removing ferrites, power supplies - no improvement. At the end I found following working solutions:
1. removing Blu and using only Dave via USB works
2. removing the tXUSBultra from the chain works
3. using roon to upscale to max. PCM (768 kHz) works

It seems that the tXUSBultra is not fast enough to feed the Blu2?! Only if BluDave is not supposed to do the scaling at all, works as it's intended to work. Anyone with the same problem out there?

 

[adyc]

I've experienced a strange issue with the SoTM tXUSBultra when using with BluDave: the sound interrupts randomy for a moment, the screen of Dave activates (is normally blank during playback as configured as Display 4) and then the playback goes on. I've tried to change the cables, removing ferrites, power supplies - no improvement. At the end I found following working solutions:
1. removing Blu and using only Dave via USB works
2. removing the tXUSBultra from the chain works
3. using roon to upscale to max. PCM (768 kHz) works

It seems that the tXUSBultra is not fast enough to feed the Blu2?! Only if BluDave is not supposed to do the scaling at all, works as it's intended to work. Anyone with the same problem out there?

Do you put the 5V on? I also ha e txUSBultra and Blu2/Dave and never have any issue.

 

[dakabali]

Do you put the 5V on? I also ha e txUSBultra and Blu2/Dave and never have any issue.

I tried to switch the USB power on/off on the back of the txUSBultra. Didn't make a difference. Do you make the Blu2 upscale?

 

[hieukm]

Hugo M Scaler is out with galvanic isolation on USB in and galvanic isolation on BNC out.

It will better perform Blu2 and get rid of all ferrites.

 

[ecwl]

I have to admit, I’m tempted to switch from my Blu2 to Hugo M Scaler, not for price reasons but because:
1) galvanically isolated USB input
2) toslink input
3) no CD transport means less likely to break down
4) front panel button controls instead of having to flip the switches at the back.

The other interesting aspect is
5) DX control for future product... originally, the future power pulse array amp need Chord DAVE to control the volume. But it’s possible that with the development of M Scaler, people can just hook the power pulse array amp directly to Hugo M Scaler and adjust the volume (or people can adjust volume directly on the amp). That said, I have speakers and subs so I’ll probably always need DAVE at least for my subs.
6) power adaptor - could it be inferior to Blu2’s? Would it influence the sound? Regardless, people are going to try third party power supplies for Hugo M Scaler. And the kicker is if you use third party power supplies to power Hugo M Scaler and your USB streamer, you’ll end up bypassing the USB galvanic isolation.
7) Blu2 runs hot. They’re saying Hugo M Scaler is stackable. Does that mean most of the heat will be dissipated from the external power supply?

Lots to digest. I’m sure Rob Watts will post his PowerPoint presentation online and comment a little more on Hugo M Scaler within the next week.

Technology marches on... time to go back to listening to Blu2 because it sounds fantasric

 

[AndrewH13]

Confirmed, no ferrites needed on m scaler!