[marcmccalmont]

Just an update. I purchased the ifi idefender. Made absolutely no difference at all. Only $50 but I could've spent it on more cds or vinyl. CD out of the blu2 is still far superior to usb from aurender n100. I believe the next logical step is a usb to bnc converter. I enjoy listening to cd's but it would also be nice to have access to my 800 gb music instantaneously and have it be the same quality as a CD. Going to try grounding my switch. Or should I ground the router before the switch? Thoughts on usb->bnc converters?

Perhaps an N100c or an N10 as an upgrade would be the solution?

 

[Jawed]

Just an update. I purchased the ifi idefender. Made absolutely no difference at all. Only $50 but I could've spent it on more cds or vinyl. CD out of the blu2 is still far superior to usb from aurender n100. I believe the next logical step is a usb to bnc converter. I enjoy listening to cd's but it would also be nice to have access to my 800 gb music instantaneously and have it be the same quality as a CD. Going to try grounding my switch. Or should I ground the router before the switch? Thoughts on usb->bnc converters?

After all the other options have failed (dunno how many thousands all the other options will add up to), you can always try lots of ferrites on a properly-constructed USB cable, though it will cost you about $15 + shipping. See my signature.

 

[jonstatt]

I am puzzled that some are describing the sound difference between USB and CD as obvious. I did notice a difference compared to the output from my Auralic Aries, but it wasn’t a chalk and cheese difference. Recently I tried an Aries G2 which has closed the gap further probably due to the galvanic isolation on the USB output. But doesn’t the reports of obvious differences suggest a design problem with Blu 2?

 

[marcmccalmont]

After all the other options have failed (dunno how many thousands all the other options will add up to), you can always try lots of ferrites on a properly-constructed USB cable, though it will cost you about $15 + shipping. See my signature.

So as an experiment I took a Trip lite USB cable loaded it up with as many ferrites as I have left over (15) and A/B'd it with the coax output (CA cable) of my N10 and i still hear the same thing the coax output preserves the speed of leading edges the usb output sounds duller and rolled off. The difference sounds like a tweeter upgrade. I think the aurender coax output is just better than their usb output

 

[Jawed]

So as an experiment I took a Trip lite USB cable loaded it up with as many ferrites as I have left over (15) and A/B'd it with the coax output (CA cable) of my N10 and i still hear the same thing the coax output preserves the speed of leading edges the usb output sounds duller and rolled off. The difference sounds like a tweeter upgrade.

The sound difference you're describing reminds me of when I had too few ferrites: there's a kind of "hyper detail" effect, but it's not obviously harsh or fatiguing. I found it quite attractive for a few days.

I suggest that, instead of a quick A-B using a few pieces of music, you use the USB connection for at least a week. My approach in comparisons is to spend a reasonable amount of time with the change before doing A-Bs. It takes longer, of course, to make decisions.

The best guide to better system setup is always to choose the system that shows the most difference amongst the pieces of music you play: maximising the differences. Allowing more of the characteristics of each recording to be more clearly differentiated from other recordings.

A good clue when doing A-B comparisons is to pick the one that sounds quieter: a more distorted sound gives the impression of being louder - a small amount of unpleasantness is perceived as being louder. I suppose it's the brain's way of raising a red flag. Distortion is, to put it simply, aggravating.

Now playing: Tuvaband - (It's Not About) Running

 

[marcmccalmont]

The sound difference you're describing reminds me of when I had too few ferrites: there's a kind of "hyper detail" effect, but it's not obviously harsh or fatiguing. I found it quite attractive for a few days.

I suggest that, instead of a quick A-B using a few pieces of music, you use the USB connection for at least a week. My approach in comparisons is to spend a reasonable amount of time with the change before doing A-Bs. It takes longer, of course, to make decisions.

The best guide to better system setup is always to choose the system that shows the most difference amongst the pieces of music you play: maximising the differences. Allowing more of the characteristics of each recording to be more clearly differentiated from other recordings.

A good clue when doing A-B comparisons is to pick the one that sounds quieter: a more distorted sound gives the impression of being louder - a small amount of unpleasantness is perceived as being louder. I suppose it's the brain's way of raising a red flag. Distortion is, to put it simply, aggravating.

Now playing: Tuvaband - (It's Not About) Running

Agreed but.....
When I was trying other drives to see if I could get an improvement over the Blu2 drive the Project sounded a bit more detailed and you suggested it was RF, turns out it was, once I built a shielded dc cable the sound from all my sources, Project, MSB and Aurender sounded the same as the Blu2 drive. This is a different situation and sound. The coax output sounds the same as Blu2's internal drive (a good reference) the usb output sounds duller and a bit lifeless compared to Blu2's drive this is not smoother lower noise but duller. The Project RF sounded like more detail but became irritating in time. The coax output sounds like a nice fast extended ribbon tweeter the usb sounds like a bandwidth limited dome tweeter no irritation in either one both equally quiet. This is a different sound than the RF problem. I had even tried a Wireworld platinum 7 usb cable and the same thing. My conclusion, Aurender's coax is better than their usb output. Probably why they came out with a N100C?

 

[Jawed]

Agreed but.....
When I was trying other drives to see if I could get an improvement over the Blu2 drive the Project sounded a bit more detailed and you suggested it was RF, turns out it was, once I built a shielded dc cable the sound from all my sources, Project, MSB and Aurender sounded the same as the Blu2 drive. This is a different situation and sound. The coax output sounds the same as Blu2's internal drive (a good reference) the usb output sounds duller and a bit lifeless compared to Blu2's drive this is not smoother lower noise but duller. The Project RF sounded like more detail but became irritating in time. The coax output sounds like a nice fast extended ribbon tweeter the usb sounds like a bandwidth limited dome tweeter no irritation in either one both equally quiet. This is a different sound than the RF problem. I had even tried a Wireworld platinum 7 usb cable and the same thing. My conclusion, Aurender's coax is better than their usb output. Probably why they came out with a N100C?

OK, so you think this isn't RF but some kind of side effect of Blu 2, reacting badly as it were, to the USB output of your Aurender? It seems weird to me that a "bad reaction" is a duller sound, since bad reactions are normally evidenced by the opposite.

Talking about tweeters, was it you that had one speaker model that reacted badly to the output from DAVE originally and BluDAVE didn't really solve the problem? I'm not sure who it was, but they stopped using that speaker as it was "upset". Makes me wonder if the "duller" sound quality of your heavily ferrited USB Aurender connection into Blu 2 would be "more compatible" with this speaker...

Now playing: Meadowlark - Satellite

 

[Jawed]

But doesn’t the reports of obvious differences suggest a design problem with Blu 2?

USB was a late addition to Blu 2:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-dave.766517/page-486#post-13212012

Well my dear chap Rob and I have had a few chats about this issue since The Ces Launch and together with Matt back at Chord we think we have a good solution we are scrapping the current boards still in manufacture and Rob has been designing a new main circuit board that will be going for express manufacture in the U.K. So we won't loose any time. The new board has the additional High Speed USB input circuitry you are all wanting. Yes we admit we got it wrong to omit the USB on the design as was. However we are pleased that we can announce that all production units will now come with USB input too.

Rob didn't have much time and I suppose he assumed that the galvanic isolation on Blu 2's outputs would be more than enough and so didn't use galvanic isolation on the USB input.

It's worth remembering, too, that Rob didn't discover the benefits of adding ferrites to the BNC cables from Blu 2 into DAVE until about 6 months later.

So, when you learn from this thread (and others) how to improve the sound of your BluDAVE setup you're benefitting from substantial on-going efforts to work this stuff out!

If Chord releases a new M scaler with the same number of taps but it sounds better into DAVE, then that'll be a reflection of the lessons learnt since Blu 2 was released. There's always lessons to be learned - when you buy something you're staking that the performance and value for money are good enough for you at that time. Manufacturers also have to make a decision about when it's worth releasing a product, rather than continuing to invest R&D in the expectation of making it better.

Your purchase will always be superseded, it's just a matter of time. Flagship products always have a limited life as the flagship.

Now playing: Luke Sital-Singh - Afterneath

 

[marcmccalmont]

Yes

OK, so you think this isn't RF but some kind of side effect of Blu 2, reacting badly as it were, to the USB output of your Aurender? It seems weird to me that a "bad reaction" is a duller sound, since bad reactions are normally evidenced by the opposite.

Talking about tweeters, was it you that had one speaker model that reacted badly to the output from DAVE originally and BluDAVE didn't really solve the problem? I'm not sure who it was, but they stopped using that speaker as it was "upset". Makes me wonder if the "duller" sound quality of your heavily ferrited USB Aurender connection into Blu 2 would be "more compatible" with this speaker...

Now playing: Meadowlark - Satellite

that was me but without proper test equipment at my overseas apartment I was unable to diagnose the problem and the tweeter that I had designed into the speaker works great with Dave. Both the Mundorf emt tweeter and the emt tweeter in my emotivas sound harsh with Dave when I tried them. Still has me puzzled but intil I have my spectrum analyzer in the same room I can’t go any further. Bottom line is the system as a whole sounds so “Right” I’m not motivated to go much farther. I don’t think there is an issue with Blu2’s usb input but rather Aurender usb output is not as good as their coax output. My N100h (usb only) sounds fine with my Hugo2 but that’s my secondary system and I’m not so critical with that system. I’m not sure the N100h usb output will ever equal Blu2 ‘s drive where as my N10’s coax output does. But I don’t have the N100h with my primary system (they are in different countries) so I’m guessing!

 

[minibox]

After all the other options have failed (dunno how many thousands all the other options will add up to), you can always try lots of ferrites on a properly-constructed USB cable, though it will cost you about $15 + shipping. See my signature.

Thanks for the suggestion. Already tried it with 15 ferrites. Actually a downgrade from the wireworld usb. Perhaps I didn't do it properly.

 

[Triode User]

Thanks for the suggestion. Already tried it with 15 ferrites. Actually a downgrade from the wireworld usb. Perhaps I didn't do it properly.

How would that work for ferrites to be a downgrade? I thought that ferrites could not do any harm. Are you sure you are using the correct parameters to judge upgrade/downgrade in the sound?

 

[minibox]

How would that work for ferrites to be a downgrade? I thought that ferrites could not do any harm. Are you sure you are using the correct parameters to judge upgrade/downgrade in the sound?

I put the ferrites on a standard usb. My wireworld is flat and could not accommodate the ferrites. The wireworld sans ferrites sounded better than the standard usb with ferrites. If there are ferrites for a flat usb then I'm certainly willing to try.

 

[marcmccalmont]

They on

I put the ferrites on a standard usb. My wireworld is flat and could not accommodate the ferrites. The wireworld sans ferrites sounded better than the standard usb with ferrites. If there are ferrites for a flat usb then I'm certainly willing to try.

They make ferrites for flat ribbon cables too small of an opening to work on a wireworld usb but round ferrites big enough to fit over should help some if not ideal.

 

[Jawed]

Bottom line is the system as a whole sounds so “Right” I’m not motivated to go much farther.

I know that feeling.

On the other hand, if there's a difference between USB and CD playback on Blu 2 I know it would bug me...

Thanks for the suggestion. Already tried it with 15 ferrites. Actually a downgrade from the wireworld usb. Perhaps I didn't do it properly.

As long as the ferrites are as close to Blu 2 as possible, there's no way to make a mistake, really.

Does the simple USB cable sound better with ferrites than without ferrites?

Now playing: Keaton Heston - Alright

 

[jonstatt]

Rob didn't have much time and I suppose he assumed that the galvanic isolation on Blu 2's outputs would be more than enough and so didn't use galvanic isolation on the USB input.

It's worth remembering, too, that Rob didn't discover the benefits of adding ferrites to the BNC cables from Blu 2 into DAVE until about 6 months later.

The USB part does feel a bit rushed like the static you get the first time you play if the streamer is on before Blu2 is powered up. I also found the scenario that was giving me dropouts and very loud pops; it is when a CD is paused and trying to play USB at the same time. It seems to depend on certain sampling rates to make it happen.

But I am impressed with what I am hearing with the Aries G2 and Vertere double D USB cable.....