[raccoon city]

I think this thread is just fine.

That's what I would do in your position.

 

[raccoon city]

By the way, for the upcoming AliExpress sale, I plan to pick up a KZ ZSX and some related accessories.
I'm hoping there's a discount or promotion for the ZSX.

 

[IEMusic]

Hi guys, I am new in this forum, if I have a question about chi-fi iems (for live band/singing), should I ask here, in another thread, or start a new thread in the main forum? (I did a few searches and got overwhelmed by data overload, lol). thanks.

Welcome! What’s ur Q?

 

[Epiclectic]

Thank you!

About 10 years ago, I was using Shure's cheapest IEM, I think I paid about $100 for them. Very poor sound quality, especially thru a cheap wireless system. Now I am singing lead in a band again after many years, and I was looking at options, and I see all these new cheaper models, with great reviews, but so many choices.

Our band is mostly rock, R&B. I need to hear mainly my own voice & keyboards, but also other singers, the drums and bass (and a little guitar). We have drums, bass, 2 guitars, my keys, and 2-3 singers at any given time, sometimes in harmonies. I know we don't have the funds for a full band IEM system, so I am going to start with mine, and add more later.
I have been hunting a IEM for live stage performance monitoring, and I'm looking at CCA C12, then I see Kbear Diamonds, then I see CCA C16, and all the KZ and other brands.
I would love a IEM for $50, but if needed I could go as high as $130, IF there is a real true improvement in the vocals and sound with that extra price.

So I am wondering if any musicians have tried these $50-120 IEM's on stage, and how they compare to the Shure & other name brand devices in the $100 range.

BTW, my main focus will be to hear the mid range, but decent bass and highs are expected as well. Not overly concerned with sound stage, but I don't want muddy sound when hearing 5 instruments and 3 voices, either. I am not very concerned about isolation, as I plan to mold my new IEM's into some Radians custom ear plugs for a custom fit and best noise isolation.

Lastly, since I really hate cables and wires on my ears, I am tempted to try a new pair of bluetooth 5 ear buds with the custom ear plugs. So if anyone has tried those on stage, please chime in. (I know, latency reduction will be a key feature to look for).

Thanks to all for sharing knowledge and expertise !

 

[IEMusic]

Thank you!

About 10 years ago, I was using Shure's cheapest IEM, I think I paid about $100 for them. Very poor sound quality, especially thru a cheap wireless system. Now I am singing lead in a band again after many years, and I was looking at options, and I see all these new cheaper models, with great reviews, but so many choices.

Our band is mostly rock, R&B. I need to hear mainly my own voice & keyboards, but also other singers, the drums and bass (and a little guitar). We have drums, bass, 2 guitars, my keys, and 2-3 singers at any given time, sometimes in harmonies. I know we don't have the funds for a full band IEM system, so I am going to start with mine, and add more later.
I have been hunting a IEM for live stage performance monitoring, and I'm looking at CCA C12, then I see Kbear Diamonds, then I see CCA C16, and all the KZ and other brands.
I would love a IEM for $50, but if needed I could go as high as $130, IF there is a real true improvement in the vocals and sound with that extra price.

So I am wondering if any musicians have tried these $50-120 IEM's on stage, and how they compare to the Shure & other name brand devices in the $100 range.

BTW, my main focus will be to hear the mid range, but decent bass and highs are expected as well. Not overly concerned with sound stage, but I don't want muddy sound when hearing 5 instruments and 3 voices, either. I am not very concerned about isolation, as I plan to mold my new IEM's into some Radians custom ear plugs for a custom fit and best noise isolation.

Lastly, since I really hate cables and wires on my ears, I am tempted to try a new pair of bluetooth 5 ear buds with the custom ear plugs. So if anyone has tried those on stage, please chime in. (I know, latency reduction will be a key feature to look for).

Thanks to all for sharing knowledge and expertise !

I can‘t comment on the CCA and KBEar IEMs, but regarding the 2 KZs that I have, I don’t use them for stage monitoring, due to their V-shaped tuning. I definitely prefer a more mid-centric tuned IEM, and that‘s why I use my Shure se846 as my monitor. I even prefer it over my CIEM b/c that unit is more V-shaped sounding. This is coming from a drummer, so as a vocalist, I would think clear midrange is even more critical. Also, the isolation is not great on those KZ IEMs as they are vented, and the vent communicates sound to the nozzle. Even with custom tips, that sound would come through, though you may actually want some ambient sound.

I have the ThieAudio Legacy 3, and it is currently my favorite sounding IEM overall. Even though it has a dynamic driver, the vent doesn’t communicate to the nozzle. I have been able to achieve CIEM levels of isolation with select foam tips, so I imagine isolation would also be great with custom tips. The mids, vocals, guitars are very clear on the L3s. I’m actually just needing to get ear impressions made, then I will order the L3 in CIEM form also, that’s how much I like it. It may become my new stage monitor.

The ThieAudio Voyager 3 also has been reported to be a good stage monitor, but I haven‘t heard them myself. The tuning switches of the ThieAudios are also a handy feature, since you may want a different sound on stage vs just listening to music.

It may be just me, but I would be WAY to nervous to use bluetooth during a performance. More things to go wrong.

Oh, I also really like my Etymotic IEMs as stage monitors. They have great isolation, and very clear mids. I just happen to like the se846 more.

I’m sure baskingshark will chime in, and he has a lot of experience using different IEMs as stage monitors.

 

[baskingshark]

Thank you!

About 10 years ago, I was using Shure's cheapest IEM, I think I paid about $100 for them. Very poor sound quality, especially thru a cheap wireless system. Now I am singing lead in a band again after many years, and I was looking at options, and I see all these new cheaper models, with great reviews, but so many choices.

Our band is mostly rock, R&B. I need to hear mainly my own voice & keyboards, but also other singers, the drums and bass (and a little guitar). We have drums, bass, 2 guitars, my keys, and 2-3 singers at any given time, sometimes in harmonies. I know we don't have the funds for a full band IEM system, so I am going to start with mine, and add more later.
I have been hunting a IEM for live stage performance monitoring, and I'm looking at CCA C12, then I see Kbear Diamonds, then I see CCA C16, and all the KZ and other brands.
I would love a IEM for $50, but if needed I could go as high as $130, IF there is a real true improvement in the vocals and sound with that extra price.

So I am wondering if any musicians have tried these $50-120 IEM's on stage, and how they compare to the Shure & other name brand devices in the $100 range.

BTW, my main focus will be to hear the mid range, but decent bass and highs are expected as well. Not overly concerned with sound stage, but I don't want muddy sound when hearing 5 instruments and 3 voices, either. I am not very concerned about isolation, as I plan to mold my new IEM's into some Radians custom ear plugs for a custom fit and best noise isolation.

Lastly, since I really hate cables and wires on my ears, I am tempted to try a new pair of bluetooth 5 ear buds with the custom ear plugs. So if anyone has tried those on stage, please chime in. (I know, latency reduction will be a key feature to look for).

Thanks to all for sharing knowledge and expertise !

Hi friend, I agree a lot with @IEMusic 's excellent suggestions. I also wouldn't recommend bluetooth for stage monitoring due to latency, and possibly risk of it disconnecting on stage, but YMMV. And if there are a lot of bluetooth connections on stage at one time, I'm not sure if something will go wrong with the feeds and all.

I would recommend something that is neutralish, or at most U shaped, and preferably something without vents (ie preferably no dynamic drivers if possible). This is cause vents let in sound and isolation is of the utmost importance in a live band setting. U can use the best custom ear plugs, but if sound gets into the IEM shell due to the vents, it makes the custom ear plugs an expensive white elephant. In general at the budget range, multi BA sets tend to give better technicalities (eg instrument separation, clarity, details, imaging) than equivalent single dynamic driver (DD) type sets, and the BA sets also tend to be smaller. So best to search for something with multi BA/hybrid. I wouldn't recommend ear buds for stage monitoring as buds poorly isolate and it is dangerous for live monitoring as u will jack up your own volume to overcome the live music (due to poor isolation), and this will damage your hearing in the long run.

I would strike out the KBEAR Diamonds from the list -> not neutral, single dynamic driver, vented, average isolation. Not as good techinicalities as equivalently priced multi BA sets. It does have good tonality/timbre, but that is not that important for stage monitoring.

Also agree fully with @IEMusic that midrange is important for your requirements as per OP. Though the KZs are generally V shaped, quite a few of my band mates use the KZ ZS10 Pro ($30) for monitoring, but just EQ the bass and treble down to give a more neutralish tuning (if u have EQ available). It has quite good technicalities and above average isolation and generally takes to EQ well.

I started out with the Shure SE215 for monitoring (I think that's what u are referring to in your OP), it is pretty bad in sound quality compared to some modern day CHIFI, for the price, so many other good options to be had for cheaper. I later upgraded to midfi multi driver westones for monitoring, they are pretty ok, but have poor price to performance ratio compared to the CHIFI.

My go to for stage monitoring is the Audiosense T800 ($298 USD) due to the excellent 30 dB isolation and good technicalities/wide soundstage, but that is a bit out of your budget.

U can check out their cheaper audiosense models, from Audiosense DT200 to Audiosense T180, T260, T300. They have differing numbers of drivers but are generally neutralish with good technicalities. Good fit, good isolation and comfortable. I also occasionally use the Hisenior B5+ ($70ish USD), 5 BA knowles set, good isolation, above average technicalities, though narrow soundstage.

I think the CCA C16 (not to be confused with the recently released CCA CA16) may be a possible live monitor as it is a pure BA setup with good technicalities, though I haven't tried it to confirm

Good luck with your search!

 

[IEMusic]

.I think the CCA C16 (not to be confused with the recently released CCA CA16) may be a possible live monitor as it is a pure BA setup with good technicalities, though I haven't tried it to confirm
Good luck with your search!

Oh, that’s right, I forgot! The all-BA CCA and KZ IEMs would probably work well as monitors, such as the KZ AS10.

 

[Epiclectic]

Hi friend, I agree a lot with @IEMusic 's excellent suggestions. I also wouldn't recommend bluetooth for stage monitoring due to latency, and possibly risk of it disconnecting on stage, but YMMV. And if there are a lot of bluetooth connections on stage at one time, I'm not sure if something will go wrong with the feeds and all.

I would recommend something that is neutralish, or at most U shaped, and preferably something without vents (ie preferably no dynamic drivers if possible). This is cause vents let in sound and isolation is of the utmost importance in a live band setting. U can use the best custom ear plugs, but if sound gets into the IEM shell due to the vents, it makes the custom ear plugs an expensive white elephant. In general at the budget range, multi BA sets tend to give better technicalities (eg instrument separation, clarity, details, imaging) than equivalent single dynamic driver (DD) type sets, and the BA sets also tend to be smaller. So best to search for something with multi BA/hybrid. I wouldn't recommend ear buds for stage monitoring as buds poorly isolate and it is dangerous for live monitoring as u will jack up your own volume to overcome the live music (due to poor isolation), and this will damage your hearing in the long run.

I would strike out the KBEAR Diamonds from the list -> not neutral, single dynamic driver, vented, average isolation. Not as good techinicalities as equivalently priced multi BA sets. It does have good tonality/timbre, but that is not that important for stage monitoring.

Also agree fully with @IEMusic that midrange is important for your requirements as per OP. Though the KZs are generally V shaped, quite a few of my band mates use the KZ ZS10 Pro ($30) for monitoring, but just EQ the bass and treble down to give a more neutralish tuning (if u have EQ available). It has quite good technicalities and above average isolation and generally takes to EQ well.

I started out with the Shure SE215 for monitoring (I think that's what u are referring to in your OP), it is pretty bad in sound quality compared to some modern day CHIFI, for the price, so many other good options to be had for cheaper. I later upgraded to midfi multi driver westones for monitoring, they are pretty ok, but have poor price to performance ratio compared to the CHIFI.

My go to for stage monitoring is the Audiosense T800 ($298 USD) due to the excellent 30 dB isolation and good technicalities/wide soundstage, but that is a bit out of your budget.

U can check out their cheaper audiosense models, from Audiosense DT200 to Audiosense T180, T260, T300. They have differing numbers of drivers but are generally neutralish with good technicalities. Good fit, good isolation and comfortable. I also occasionally use the Hisenior B5+ ($70ish USD), 5 BA knowles set, good isolation, above average technicalities, though narrow soundstage.

I think the CCA C16 (not to be confused with the recently released CCA CA16) may be a possible live monitor as it is a pure BA setup with good technicalities, though I haven't tried it to confirm

Good luck with your search!

Thank you both for detailed and excellent advice. I should have mentioned that when I say custom ear plugs, I meant I'll be using a full enclosure method, where I first make a custom ear tip on the IEM's sound nozzle, then pack the molding around the outside of the IEM, completely filling the part of the outer ear that the IEM doesn't occupy when inserted. This method works best with smaller IEM's, and it increases isolation immensely. But I just realized it would cover any bass vents, which might throw the lower frequency response curves off, idk. (In case you're wondering, the cable connection is usually taped off and dug out after, to preserve the ability to swap cables. )

My stage mixer enables me to create a custom EQ'd mix for these IEM's, which makes me tempted to try a CCA C12, and just EQ the V into a flat-ish profile.
Does this info change your recommendations ?
Anyone tried the Audisense T300 vs CCA C12 vs C16 vs......Tin T3? Moondrops?

 

[baskingshark]

Thank you both for detailed and excellent advice. I should have mentioned that when I say custom ear plugs, I meant I'll be using a full enclosure method, where I first make a custom ear tip on the IEM's sound nozzle, then pack the molding around the outside of the IEM, completely filling the part of the outer ear that the IEM doesn't occupy when inserted. This method works best with smaller IEM's, and it increases isolation immensely. But I just realized it would cover any bass vents, which might throw the lower frequency response curves off, idk. (In case you're wondering, the cable connection is usually taped off and dug out after, to preserve the ability to swap cables. )

My stage mixer enables me to create a custom EQ'd mix for these IEM's, which makes me tempted to try a CCA C12, and just EQ the V into a flat-ish profile.
Does this info change your recommendations ?
Anyone tried the Audisense T300 vs CCA C12 vs C16 vs......Tin T3? Moondrops?

If u have EQ mix available, that opens up your options tremendously. Most of the CHIFI budget IEMs are tuned harmanish or V shaped for consumer preferences, so if u can make it more neutralish, u can definitely try some of the CCAs and KZs. And best part is u can use them outside of stage monitoring for casual music listening too. Though, I generally try to EQ downwards rather than up, and not more than 3 dB (some of the cheaper drivers distort with too much EQ).

It wouldn't be a good idea to cover the bass vents IMHO. U might introduce driver flex, and not sure if the pressure build up inside the shell will damage the dynamic drivers with the vents unable to let out airflow, or even damage the eardrums due to the backflow of pressure/air. And yes the frequency response will probably also change.
I'm not an expert in this area, so maybe I'll defer this bass vent covering thing to some of our friends here for their advise!

 

[IEMusic]

I agree, you definitely don’t want to randomly seal the bass vents, due potentially significant changes in tuning, along with driver flex/damage. I think the best would be to go with an all BA IEM, probably from CCA or KZ. I haven’t heard the Tin T3, but I wouldn‘t use either the T2 or T4 as a stage monitor, due to poor isolation and the placement of the bass vents (the tuning of the T2 would be good though).

Moondrop makes some incredible IEMs, but they are a lot more expensive in general, at least for what you’re looking for.

Hopefully others will chime in regarding the all-BA KZs and CCAs.

 

[Nimweth]

Thank you!

About 10 years ago, I was using Shure's cheapest IEM, I think I paid about $100 for them. Very poor sound quality, especially thru a cheap wireless system. Now I am singing lead in a band again after many years, and I was looking at options, and I see all these new cheaper models, with great reviews, but so many choices.

Our band is mostly rock, R&B. I need to hear mainly my own voice & keyboards, but also other singers, the drums and bass (and a little guitar). We have drums, bass, 2 guitars, my keys, and 2-3 singers at any given time, sometimes in harmonies. I know we don't have the funds for a full band IEM system, so I am going to start with mine, and add more later.
I have been hunting a IEM for live stage performance monitoring, and I'm looking at CCA C12, then I see Kbear Diamonds, then I see CCA C16, and all the KZ and other brands.
I would love a IEM for $50, but if needed I could go as high as $130, IF there is a real true improvement in the vocals and sound with that extra price.

So I am wondering if any musicians have tried these $50-120 IEM's on stage, and how they compare to the Shure & other name brand devices in the $100 range.

BTW, my main focus will be to hear the mid range, but decent bass and highs are expected as well. Not overly concerned with sound stage, but I don't want muddy sound when hearing 5 instruments and 3 voices, either. I am not very concerned about isolation, as I plan to mold my new IEM's into some Radians custom ear plugs for a custom fit and best noise isolation.

Lastly, since I really hate cables and wires on my ears, I am tempted to try a new pair of bluetooth 5 ear buds with the custom ear plugs. So if anyone has tried those on stage, please chime in. (I know, latency reduction will be a key feature to look for).

Thanks to all for sharing knowledge and expertise !

Two very good all-BA sets you might consider which have excellent mids, separation and detail are KZ BA10 (if you can get a comfortable fit) and the TRN BA5. The new CVJ CSN (1DD+5BA) also has a similar sound profile and may suit you.

 

[prionsarebad]

Isn't ER2SE $99 on Amazon right now?

 

[IEMusic]

Isn't ER2SE $99 on Amazon right now?

Great find! Thanks for sharing.

 

[Vivicector]

Hi! Could anyone please give me a word of advise? I want to buy headphones for my PC. I have EVGA Nu Audio that can drive 600 Ohm, so high resistance is not an issue. I look to use it for gaming and some music (I mostly listen to music on newly received Dynaudio LYD7, and that's another reason to change headphones). I was using 5.1 headphones mostly for the best positioning but got tired of their low sound quality. Also they are not avaliable today, the "real" 5.1 headphones concept is dead. Virtual surround looks fine now so I want to give a stereo headphones a try.

However, gaming headphones are usually just bad, so I wish to get a better quality music or studio full size headphones and a separate mic. I believe I need headphones with detailed sound, fast transient response, balanced sound (a bit of rised bass is fine though, if it won't spoil midrange). No gaming features are required, sound card will provide those.
What can you recommend in the below 100 USD price range? Is there anything decent at all?

 

[RikudouGoku]

Hi! Could anyone please give me a word of advise? I want to buy headphones for my PC. I have EVGA Nu Audio that can drive 600 Ohm, so high resistance is not an issue. I look to use it for gaming and some music (I mostly listen to music on newly received Dynaudio LYD7, and that's another reason to change headphones). I was using 5.1 headphones mostly for the best positioning but got tired of their low sound quality. Also they are not avaliable today, the "real" 5.1 headphones concept is dead. Virtual surround looks fine now so I want to give a stereo headphones a try.

However, gaming headphones are usually just bad, so I wish to get a better quality music or studio full size headphones and a separate mic. I believe I need headphones with detailed sound, fast transient response, balanced sound (a bit of rised bass is fine though, if it won't spoil midrange). No gaming features are required, sound card will provide those.
What can you recommend in the below 100 USD price range? Is there anything decent at all?

this is the iem thread so you probably wont get any good recommendations here. I did recommend the Blon B8 to my friend though so maybe you can check it out. As for mic I recommend the modmic so you can attach it to the headphones. Or if you want even cheaper I would try earbuds, like the Moondrop Nameless.