[Wiljen]

Also worth noting the KZ AS10 is not the same. Technically speaking KZ doesn't sell this exact model. The shell is the same,but the internals are different in the AS10. The ones in question are only being sold to competing makes CCA, Tripowin, and KBear.

 

[Wiljen]

Another possibility is that all three companies CCA, Tripowin, and KBear were in negotiations with KZ to make a product for them, and none knew of the other negotiations or that the design was being sold to more than one of them. One would think a retailer would want some kind of exclusivity contract with an OEM, but if they failed to do their diligence, it is possible that none of the sellers knew they would be in direct competition with each other.

 

[Wiljen]

The biggest take away of all this is, be mindful as you could easily end up with 3 of the same in-ear thinking you were buying 3 different models. I went so far as to tell the vendors not to send the 2nd and 3rd one for review if the tunings were not different as I saw no reason to review the same thing multiple times and in every case I was assured their's was different. This is part of why I say the vendors may not have known or may have been mislead. Whether they honestly thought their tuning was different, only they can say, but they certainly advertised them as such.

 

[1clearhead]

You shouldn't pass, their IEMs are good.
F1 is a very interesting pair and the KB06 is super comfortable and easy going.
I mean, there are better choices but hey, they're just good and they're improving.



Clear, do you know if they're connected to KZ in any way?
The cable is the same as the ZSN Pro, stock tips are the starline ones, the packaging is the same.
Interesting..

I did ask, and they told me that they are an independent company. ...That's what I got so far.

 

[Otto Motor]

Two fresh reviews on the green blog (for now):

1. NiceHCK NX7 by @loomisjohnson
2. DZAT DR-25 by me

 

[1clearhead]

One gram (g) difference, not "kg".
33 kg earphone would be crashing heavy
Nice review, thank you.

My experience agrees well with you assessment and comparison
I am enjoying A10 with some treble-rich music.

Gladly noted!!! ...Thanks for the correction!
My mistake!

-Clear

 

[1clearhead]

Toyota makes and sells the 86 and the Scion FRS, but they also make the exact same car for Subaru (only re-badged the BRZ).

One could make the argument that Subaru BRZ sales eat away from the FRS & 86 sales, but if you think about it Toyota still wins because they made the BRZ for Subaru.

So if KZ makes 3,000 of the exact same IEM, and packages 1,000 as the KZ AS10, 1,000 for Tripowin, and 1,000 for KB Ear, then they still manufactured and sold 3,000 earphones.

Sure, for every Tripowin or KB Ear someone buys, it would seem like that’s 1 less KZ someone buys directly from KZ. But since Tripowin and KB Ear have to buy them from KZ, there’s still money going into KZs pockets every time Tripowin and KB Ear sells a pair.

+1 ...I have a hunch this is how they're going about it, too.

 

[FastAndClean]

my Moondrop Kanas review is up
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/moondrop-kanas.23778/reviews

 

[DBaldock9]

Toyota makes and sells the 86 and the Scion FRS, but they also make the exact same car for Subaru (only re-badged the BRZ).

One could make the argument that Subaru BRZ sales eat away from the FRS & 86 sales, but if you think about it Toyota still wins because they made the BRZ for Subaru.

So if KZ makes 3,000 of the exact same IEM, and packages 1,000 as the KZ AS10, 1,000 for Tripowin, and 1,000 for KB Ear, then they still manufactured and sold 3,000 earphones.

Sure, for every Tripowin or KB Ear someone buys, it would seem like that’s 1 less KZ someone buys directly from KZ. But since Tripowin and KB Ear have to buy them from KZ, there’s still money going into KZs pockets every time Tripowin and KB Ear sells a pair.

In the auto analogy - Toyota actually built the BRZ in partnership with Subaru, since they're using the Subaru boxer engine, but not the Subaru AWD system.
Quote from Wikipedia - "... The flat/boxer engine and all-wheel-drive became standard equipment for mid-size and smaller cars in most international markets by 1996, and is now standard in most North American market Subaru vehicles. The lone exception is the BRZ, introduced in 2012 via a partnership with Toyota, which uses the boxer engine but instead uses a rear-wheel-drive structure. ..."

 

[Slater]

In the auto analogy - Toyota actually built the BRZ in partnership with Subaru, since they're using the Subaru boxer engine, but not the Subaru AWD system.
Quote from Wikipedia - "... The flat/boxer engine and all-wheel-drive became standard equipment for mid-size and smaller cars in most international markets by 1996, and is now standard in most North American market Subaru vehicles. The lone exception is the BRZ, introduced in 2012 via a partnership with Toyota, which uses the boxer engine but instead uses a rear-wheel-drive structure. ..."

Yes, you are correct. However, the intent of my analogy was to show a more simplified relationship that would easily explain the relationship between KZ/Tripowin/KB Ear, since not everyone on HeadFi would be a motorhead

Also, despite the boxer engine being supplied by Subaru, all other aspects of the car (including production and assembly) is handled by Toyota.

 

[lgcubana]

my Moondrop Kanas review is up
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/moondrop-kanas.23778/reviews

Very timely review for me, as I'm about to take receipt of a gently used pair of the Kanas Pro Edt.

Like yourself I'm all about the DD. My little collection contains all hybrids, with the exception of the TFZ No. 3

But I'm a bit fuzzy on what you now have in your possession, the Kanas DLC or the Kanas Pro Edt.

 

[DBaldock9]

Yes, you are correct. However, the intent of my analogy was to show a more simplified relationship that would easily explain the relationship between KZ/Tripowin/KB Ear, since not everyone on HeadFi would be a motorhead

Also, despite the boxer engine being supplied by Subaru, all other aspects of the car (including production and assembly) is handled by Toyota.

Well, I'm not a motorhead, but I have been driving Subaru cars since 1988.
And, a non-AWD car just doesn't seem right, to be called a real Subaru, so being a Toyota is OK.

 

[DocHoliday]

Regarding the current conversation about multiple brands and variants:

Spoiler

The KB10 does sport the same all BA structure as the A10 consisting of a BA 22955 for bass, BA 29689 for MID’s, and BA 30095 for High’s.

The KB EAR earphone company did mention to me that they were not affiliated with any other company and that they are an independent brand.






COMPARISONS:
CCA A10 vs KB EAR KB10
Well? I hate to be the one to break it to everyone, but the sound signature on both the A10 and KB10 are exactly the same…Meaning, you’re not going to find any differences, whatsoever, on both of them in their sound at all. It seems that internally they are both built with the same BA armatures down to the core, almost as if they were built and made at the same assembly line, for that matter. And, even though the appearance might look a little different, the construction and shape of both down to the similar cables and packaging are a dead give-a-way of where they come from.

I saw a graph provided by @Wiljen (am grateful for it, thanks!) - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3064#post-15073966 - and it definitely backs up your view that the CCA A10 and KB10 have the exact same sound. Probably Tripowin TP 10 also has the same sound too. Thanks for the review.
From what I'm aware, KBear ain't directly affiliated to KZ (unlike CCA), and are just using KZ drivers and shells. Like KZ manufactures it for them and they just stamp their name on it.
Regarding whether Tripowin is related to KZ, I actually sent an email to Tripowin's contact email and asked them if they are in any way affiliated to KZ but they have not replied me for a week.

.......I'm getting quite fatigued by the different multidriver IEMs that KZ and CCA are producing every few weeks, which look quite similar in sound signature for some of them, with slight improvements here and there, or even no value added.

All three are exactly alike.

Graph of all of them done 3 weeks apart.
https://audiofool.reviews/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/TP10vsA10vsKB10.jpg

Actually why is KZ/CCA doing this and diluting their own potential customer pool? Especially since tuning is exactly the same, just under different branding.

Sure, for every Tripowin or KB Ear someone buys, it would seem like that’s 1 less KZ someone buys directly from KZ. But since Tripowin and KB Ear have to buy them from KZ, there’s still money going into KZs pockets every time Tripowin and KB Ear sells a pair.

.......since they already have the shell moulds and drivers on hand, it's just a simple pasting of another brand on the shell. Minimal tuning and R&D involved.

There might be short term gains,
but in the long run, diluting your sales to a company that may one day be a competitor may not be good idea IMO.

Not KZ specifically, but with the OriginalDesignManufacturing Model, the named company could have a very small footprint, with no real liquid assets. Trying to survive in a sub culture where your staff wakes up one day and says it’s time for me to branch out, take what I’ve learned from you and use the same ODMs, to make a very similar product.

Another possibility is that all three companies CCA, Tripowin, and KBear were in negotiations with KZ to make a product for them, and none knew of the other negotiations or that the design was being sold to more than one of them. One would think a retailer would want some kind of exclusivity contract with an OEM, but if they failed to do their diligence, it is possible that none of the sellers knew they would be in direct competition with each other.

Looking back, none of us should be surprised at the current state of affairs. About a year and a half ago KZ told us, more or less, what they were up to.

Spoiler

Looky, looky

Not sure what this means.

I have a feeling that's just a poor Engrish translation, and what they're trying to say is that the ZSR is going to be available in additional colors (like the ZSE being made in blue). Or maybe certain colors will be exclusive to certain sellers (like Gearbest-exclusive colors).

Who knows though - with KZ things are always a surprise

I think it means that you can customize it in whatever color/style combination when you order it.

Yeah in a way, but I'd say it foes further than that. You decide everything that goes in the package, the combination of a few things (which will probably influence pricing in the end). You choose color, tip color and shape, cable material/color/connectors/mic type etc. .

Drawing from my own manufacturing and sales experience, I believe this is more designed for volume purchases (such as gearbest or massdrop ordering 500pcs of a special color and cable configuration) or “private label” type customers (like the nicehck Bro/YY Pro/BGVP SGZ-DN1). Remember, KZ is an ODM manufacturer for a number of customers.

My best guess would be that Slater is closest to the truth.
The giveaway is the ability to order the ZSR with your own logo on it:


This seems the most logical.

So many people in China are trying to lift themselves out of poverty. They've adopted the "50cent" approach to "Get Rich Or Die Trying". Hence the Chi-Fi flood.

Slater makes a good point about Subarus and Scion via Toyota but, for me, this branching out has already started to spin out of control. Not too happy about the release of THREE SUPPOSEDLY "DIFFERENT" EARPHONES, THREE DIFFERENT LABELS having the same exact presentation AND NO WARNING.

I think I'm beginning to understand the whole "triple win" thing.

Love my classic KZ's....but this newer stuff...... I kind of miss KZ's hungry years.

 

[SweetEars]

I am looking for an IEM tha gives musicality to AR Rhaman's music such as below..Any recommendations? u guy can try out and see which of your IEMS is good in this song... basically 2 things i look for depth soundstage , separation, layering and sub bass with sparkle

 

[SweetEars]

I am looking for musical IEMs that gives musicality to AR Rahman's music such as below..Any recommendations? u guy can try out and see which of your IEMS is good in this song... basically 2 things i look for depth soundstage and height with V shaped , separation, layering and sub bass with sparkle

Please indicate links and prices

SO far these IEMS i have owned excel in this

outstanding:

Revonext Qt2 ( IEM)
Meelectronics M9 ( IEM) ( 2009, impossible or hard to get now)
EMX 500 (Earphones)
R4YS (Earphones)

Moderately does the job but not perfect:
( All IEMS)
CCA C10
BCD micro hifi drivers
Samsung AKG earphones ( comes with S8 or S9)
apple Iphone 3G earphones