[Slater]

However, that does not prevent us from discussing general trends among the particular IEM's nor from inducing from those particulars qualified claims about the betterness of one kind of driver over another.

No one is trying to prevent anyone from discussing trends, or the betterness of one thing over another. I have no clue where you got that idea.

As I said, there’s plenty of great multi driver IEMs, plenty of great single BA IEMs, and plenty of great single dynamic IEMs.

I used to be in the design manufacturing business, and from my experience it was easier to make a product that only had 5 parts than one that had 25 parts.

Heck, look at how many more cases of of multi driver IEMs we see wired out of phase, which is understandable when you have 4 or 5 drivers to solder vs just 1.

If I gave you full access to a machine shop with every tool imaginable, and an unlimited budget, then asked you to design and build (from scratch) 1 car and 1 horse drawn carriage, which do you think would be easier, faster, and cheaper? One has thousands of parts and is significantly more complicated, while the other has a few dozen parts and is much simpler. But that doesn’t mean one is better than the other. There’s good cars and crap cars, just like there’s good horse drawn carriages and crap ones.

 

[demo-to]

KZ AS10
To those don't mind applying EQing.
Here are my settings with the Samsung S9 if you prefer a more flat and balanced, still natural sounding sig.
I use the KZ upgrade silver plated cable for appr 10USD and foam tips.
The AS10 response very well to EQ.
With these adaptations they follow right after my Rose Mini4 as current favourites I have in possession.

 

[phthora]

No one is trying to prevent anyone from discussing trends, or the betterness of one thing over another. I have no clue where you got that idea.

As I said, there’s plenty of great multi driver IEMs, plenty of great single BA IEMs, and plenty of great single dynamic IEMs.

I used to be in the design manufacturing business, and from my experience it was easier to make a product that only had 5 parts than one that had 25 parts.

Heck, look at how many more cases of of multi driver IEMs we see wired out of phase, which is understandable when you have 4 or 5 drivers to solder vs just 1.

If I gave you full access to a machine shop with every tool imaginable, and an unlimited budget, then asked you to design and build (from scratch) 1 car and 1 horse drawn carriage, which do you think would be easier, faster, and cheaper? One has thousands of parts and is significantly more complicated, while the other has a few dozen parts and is much simpler. But that doesn’t mean one is better than the other. There’s good cars and crap cars, just like there’s good horse drawn carriages and crap ones.

I agree that it is a more difficult task to create a quality IEM that has multiple drivers versus one dynamic driver. For that reason, I would say that in the majority of cases, given a particular price-point, the dynamic driver will win out simply because the engineering challenges, as you suggest, as fewer. However, you do reach a certain point in which, for lack of a better term, one runs out of headroom. Making a single dynamic driver that competes at the $1000 level, for example, is much more difficult than making a multi-BA that does so. There are simply limitations to what any driver arrangement can do, and there are numerous areas in which one driver type has less of a limitation than another driver type.

Additionally, while issues with phase or crossover are problematic, they are becoming less so every day as more and more companies deal with the tech.

If you compare the worst of one type to the best of another per your analogy, it will yield much different conclusions than if you compared average to average. An average car is going to be better in the vast majority of use-cases than an average horse and carriage. I think it's possible to make similar claims regarding driver types.

 

[Wiljen]

Why are you making me want these...haha.. do I really want it to "shock my heart" as it says at the bottom of this photo?

People pay good money for internal defibs.

 

[ShakyJake]

i listened to the v80 some more last night and (for now) agree that they're not groundbreaking in the sub-$30 space, although $30 iems of this quality would be unthinkable a couple of years ago. in general, i think they do certain things better than the kzs, notably bass quality and reproduction of percussion, and certain things not as well, such as stage and imaging. what kept going thru my simple mind is that trn (and kz for that matter) might have been better served with fewer drivers, since none of the aforesaid are paragons of coherence.

How does the v80 compare to your c681?

I have the latter, and I am waiting for my v80 to arrive from the latest Ali sale.

 

[zazaboy]

@demo-to hi bro do you think the kz as10 is a must buy compared to your rose mini 4.. I am searching for good mids and soundstage especially livelike instruments ... thanks for impressions thanks

 

[demo-to]

@demo-to hi bro do you think the kz as10 is a must buy compared to your rose mini 4.. I am searching for good mids and soundstage especially livelike instruments ... thanks for impressions thanks

Considering the mentioned adaptation I must claim that the AS10 is overall the more natural sounding IEM.
The bass is in terms of quality superb on the AS10 after EQ. Very capable in this section. Probably the best and most natural I ve heard so far. No limits in quantity if required.
The pronunciation of the mids is more given with the stock cable but I like the silver plated cable more because it allows better sparkle and overall refinement I have the feeling. With the stock cable voices sounds slightly more foreward and natural on the other hand. But the Mini4 wins over both configurations in this section. But not by far.
Cymbals sound very good with the AS10 though maybe slighly thinner compared to the thicker, more natural and forefront Rose.
Soundstage goes to the AS10. Nothing I miss here.
The AS10 sounds so coherent tuned.
Detail retrieval wins the Mini4, but again not by far.

Considering the result I 've received after EQing the AS10, it is a must buy at its price imo.

BTW, the good by using the basic Samsung EQ I can apply this configuration in all apps I am listen to music with my S9.

 

[zazaboy]

Considering the mentioned adaptation I must claim that the AS10 is overall the more natural sounding IEM.
The bass is in terms of quality superb on the AS10 after EQ. Very capable in this section. Probably the best and most natural I ve heard so far. No limits in quantity if required.
The pronunciation of the mids is more given with the stock cable but I like the silver plated cable more because it allows better sparkle and overall refinement I have the feeling. With the stock cable voices sounds slightly more foreward and natural on the other hand. But the Mini4 wins over both configurations in this section. But not by far.
Cymbals sound very good with the AS10 though maybe slighly thinner compared to the thicker, more natural and forefront Rose.
Soundstage goes to the AS10. Nothing I miss here.
The AS10 sounds so coherent tuned.
Detail retrieval wins the Mini4, but again not by far.

Considering the result I 've received after EQing the AS10, it is a must buy at its price imo.

BTW, the good by using the basic Samsung EQ I can apply this configuration in all apps I am listen to music with my S9.

bro very thanks for your accurate review... really appreciate it much thanks helps me a lot.. I wish you a nice day...

 

[DikZak]

DEAT Hifi Small. Solid.

How is this one compared to memt x5?


And where does the Auglamour F200 fit in this comparison?

 

[chinmie]

KZ AS10
To those don't mind applying EQing.
Here are my settings with the Samsung S9 if you prefer a more flat and balanced, still natural sounding sig.
I use the KZ upgrade silver plated cable for appr 10USD and foam tips.
The AS10 response very well to EQ.
With these adaptations they follow right after my Rose Mini4 as current favourites I have in possession.

that's a bit of a low cut there.. is the AS10 too bassy? also how do you compare the AS10 with the B5+?

 

[danimoca]

Why are you making me want these...haha.. do I really want it to "shock my heart" as it says at the bottom of this photo?

I can confirm these are good. They're lush and full sounding, just the way I like them (tough not technically amazing or anything). Oh and the build is quite simply unbelievable for an IEM of this price. The pieces are heavy and feel like a piece of jewelry and the cable is nice, supple with no memory and non-microphonic. Very impressive.

 

[mbwilson111]

I can confirm these are good. They're lush and full sounding, just the way I like them (tough not technically amazing or anything). Oh and the build is quite simply unbelievable for an IEM of this price. The pieces are heavy and feel like a piece of jewelry and the cable is nice, supple with no memory and non-microphonic. Very impressive.

Now I want it even more

 

[Dobrescu George]

I'm not sure where those are made, but with the prices they have right now, as they're on a large sale, I think they should fit well in this thread

NuForce HEM8, HEM Dynamic and BE2

https://audiophile-heaven.blogspot.com/2018/09/nuforce-dynamic-be2-hem8-optoma-experience.html

 

[crabdog]

Forgot mentioning i prefer headphones with cable that goes around the ear, more like in ear monitors.

How is this one compared to memt x5?


And where does the Auglamour F200 fit in this comparison?

The Small has a more balanced signature than the X5, most notably with a more forward midrange.

As for the F200, here is what I wrote in my DEAT Small review:

The F200 has a lighter mid-bass and with a faster decay. Sub-bass extension is slightly better on the F200. Vocals are more forward on the F200, due to it’s more balanced bass and relaxed treble but the Small has more perceived clarity. The Small has a livelier and airier treble compared to the F200’s laid-back high frequencies.

 

[demo-to]

that's a bit of a low cut there.. is the AS10 too bassy? also how do you compare the AS10 with the B5+?

I would say so but you can judge by yourself taking this FR graph as reference...

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nqifCZ_Q...CPcBGAYYCw/s1600/KZ+AS10+vs+T2+vs+T2+Vent.jpg

Even after my EQ adaptation I am more than satisfied with the bass level and it's more in quantity than I use to like (at and closely around reference level) but I left it there because it's so convincing in the performance quality.

Compared to the AS10 the B5+ is like completely different in its nature and tonality, more like a slightly peaky, thinner, more resolving, analytical, less forgiving and less natural sounding IEM.
In absolute terms the Hisenior is very good sounding, too and
Ootb the more reference sounding flater IEM.

But once EQing the AS10 to my preferences it was a fast and easy step to sort the B5+ out of my favourites shelf.