[Andykong]

Hello Andy,

First of all, I'm NOT telling the N8 is poorly built and on the contrary, this is one of the strongest built I ever seen. I'm just disappointed by the buttons and dials which should be a lot better if made with a better material and probably a bit shorter (for the dials).

Looking at your pictures, some parts of the buttons seem to be more copper colored. That could indeed be brass as we might see the green circle of oxydation on the volume dial.

However, the center of the volume dial is not appearing as brass but of plastic... For the other button and dial, the photo are not very revealing. The brass become dull and green if you expose it to oxygen. That might be a clue of the used material.

If I insist that's because I really believe my unit is differently built. This is really a question of feeling under the skin of the finger. The brass (or any metal) has a sensation quite different as plastic and the dial are very light and not feeling cold as metal made. Maybe the metal is thick or the gold plated is hiding the metal feeling but I swear that doesn't feel like brass. But if you say that's made of brass, I shall probably believe you...

And the N8 still got the best sound ever heard !

Sorry to bother you and regards.

Dimitri

That's great, I was worry that the finishing of the knobs have affected your impression to Cayin N8, I hope you'll enjoy your N8 and your music after we clear your doubt.

 

[Andykong]

the n8 is a terrific dap for sure, but someone saying that the 1Z is cold sounding makes me think that or I am with earing problems or is the reviewer, or the n8 is damn hot...

You mean the machine is hotte then wm1z? or the sound of N8 is warmer then wm1z? This is a very good guessing game that only audiophile will understand, try to tell your wife that wm1z is warmer then N8, she probably think you are crazy.

 

[Andykong]

You haven't correctly read or understood my reply.

I tested the DX200 with amp 1 to 4 and the N8 just sounds better, fullier and more organic.

And on the question of the price, the raw performance may convince people to pay more even if the increase of the price is a lot higher than the increase of the quality.

If not, 64audio would probably disappear.

My friend, if you let your wife know your u18T falls into "the increase of the price is a lot higher than the increase of the quality" category, I bet your probably will disappear.

Just joking, the thread is overly tensed, lets have a good laugh before we break for weekend.

 

[Andykong]

There are people that sold the 1z and to have the dx200ti, there are people who had the dx200ti and sold it and stayed with 1Z, other sold the dx200ti and bought the sp1000cu/ss I could stay here all day... At this prices is our personal taste that rules, is no one that is bad or good all of them are top machines

Actually this is a very good statement that summarise our hobby.

When we were new to this hobby, we focused on "can we hear the different"? And when a DAP or IEM let us hear something that we didn't notice before in a familiar music, or when changing the cable (or IEM tips) can change the sound impression noticeably, we paid.

Later on when we are deep into the hobby and start to read reviews, spend more time in HeadFi forum, we become an educated user and audiophile "qualities" kicks in: Frequency extension, dynamic, resolution, low-level details, harmonic, soundstage, imaging, body, air, ... how many guitars you can hear from Hotel California with your system?

But at the end of the day, we finally settle down and enjoy our music, and realised that these audiophile quality are nothing more then the lower layers of Maslow Hierarchy of Needs, and ultimately is your preference that finally determine your satisfaction and happiness from the hobby.

 

[Andykong]

Hello Andy, I am glad that you are answering

According to economy 101, competitions make the market stronger. Ofcourse, I am trailing thread of different DAPs, which I owned, and which I don’t, simply because they are viewed as competitions to other products. The N8 is not the only one that I am trailing, and my Audio hobby doesn’t stop by Dx200*. I am still trailing because your N8 is wonderful of many different aspects. However, it will all come down to Sound performances, correct ?

I gathered so many useful informations, and they satisfy my curiosity.

1/ FPGA being used for Digital processing instead of conventional Xmos. Ofcourse, I did ask you before about this FPGA, and you mentioned about it too. There are Pros and Cons in using it. Why not AK4137 ?

2/ I2S upto 368Khz, yes, this is very impressive. The fact that the connectors are mini connector, and you including the cables, that is excellent news. Though, I wonder about clocks specifications.

3/ You are using many components inside including ECHU, and the like, which are expensive, and high quality

4/ I like the idea of heat dissipation toward the chassis by strips, PGS

5/ N8 is the first to utilize a bold move of KORG tubes ! I appreciate it. Once again, competitions are good ! Hence Ibasso is going to release the next Korg tube module soon !

I still seek for more answers, and hope you don’t mind

Spoiler

1/ Printed Flexible circuit * I need more informations, is it a typical Paste construction or is it stripes construction ? Where exactly is it being used ? I am only curious because as a Cables, it affects sound quality also

2/ Clock oscilliators, what are being used ? I don’t mind keeping the brands secrets, I want some parameters such as Floor noises, and PPM, at the least.

3/ You mentioned the FPGA being the core processor for DSP handling to make sure that there is no Oversampling, and AK4497EQ is used for Conversions only ? If so, This is all in the software control ? FPGA is very flexible, but it gotta be implemented in specific ways to enable different features. So it is worth it to ask, Is it capable of Upsampling, or Live processing of 44.1 into DSD256 ? *the highest N8 can process*

4/ What Precision tolerances of resistors are being used ?

Finally, SP1K, WM1Z, N8, LPGT are in the same competition end of the market, according to the pricing. Now, the WM1Z was priced worth it, because of the Special chassis of Pure OFC copper block and Micro-Porous Gold plating, using Sony S-Master patented architectures, and many Film-Capacitors, F-resistors, which are all high quality, expensive components, which makes it unique one of a kind on the market.

Before owning Dx200, I did participate in it own thread, and after carefully observations, I decided to grab it and my WM1Z was sold afterward. I am entitled to my own opinion, just like many others, and people who agreed or share my opinions are the same. So IMO, and experiences, the Dx200 by Sound quality alone, is competitive toward these expensive products very well, and hence I am trailing them all. Ofcourse DX200 is not perfect, it weakness is the timbres, and it hisses with sensitive in ears. However, using full-size headphones and lineout into desktop, the performances are wonderful.

Ibasso, tried it (copper-gold chassis), and ended up with only 25 Specially made unit of Copper-Goldplated Dx200, but the pricing had to be kept around $3,000. It was all because of the chassis.

After all, as a strong products, and being very competitive. I appreciate Cayin for making the N8. As a customer, I am grateful to see competitions, the more, the merrier



This is very kind of you, but unfortunately, my money don’t grow like grass, so I am a bit sensible. For now, @twister6 and @PinkyPowers reviews are inline, and I can not appreciate enough .

Also @Andykong , can you please confirm if I2S on the N8 is software configurable ? If it is hardware only, do you have a Pin-out ? So we may be able to make a compatible cables to other desktop DAC system ?

From this Working Blocks. It seems that with a firmware upgrade, your implemented FPGA is capable of Upsampling from PCM 16/44.1 or higher upto 384Khz using I2S out ? I know Chord is doing similar with WTA filter on their own and does upto 768KHz. However they don’t use I2S

My question happened because Cayin N8 is the first on the market to offer 384Khz from I2S. From my desktop experiences, I2S is the better connection

Your really are persistent and won't give up any chance to preach your DX200 gospel.

I have attached the pin definition of N8 I2S implementation for your reference.

I have make our position clear in previous exchange. Cayin will not response to component level discussion or questions. Thats are question that's more relevant at DIY interest. We won't explain why we do this, or why we don't do this, or why we select A over B in our product development process. We also won't disclose new features that we cannot deliver immediately. Even when users asked simple question like MQA implementation, we simply refuse to disclose any detail. Last but not least, Cayin is probably one of the most outspoken brand regarding our circuitry design and audio technologies, but still we need to draw a line on need to know based. If we presume the technical detail will not introduce any marketing or sales benefit, we'll keep those as trade secret. For customers of industrial partners who has a reason to access to these detail, please feel free to contact us at info@cayin.cn. but we'll ask for serial number and proof of purchase when our customer support perform their after sales service.

 

[Dobrescu George]

Your really are persistent and won't give up any chance to preach your DX200 gospel.

I have attached the pin definition of N8 I2S implementation for your reference.


I have make our position clear in previous exchange. Cayin will not response to component level discussion or questions. Thats are question that's more relevant at DIY interest. We won't explain why we do this, or why we don't do this, or why we select A over B in our product development process. We also won't disclose new features that we cannot deliver immediately. Even when users asked simple question like MQA implementation, we simply refuse to disclose any detail. Last but not least, Cayin is probably one of the most outspoken brand regarding our circuitry design and audio technologies, but still we need to draw a line on need to know based. If we presume the technical detail will not introduce any marketing or sales benefit, we'll keep those as trade secret. For customers of industrial partners who has a reason to access to these detail, please feel free to contact us at info@cayin.cn. but we'll ask for serial number and proof of purchase when our customer support perform their after sales service.

I wonder if anyone can make a DIY N8 with the info presented so far

On a more seriious note, I think there was a lot of technical data shared so far, more than one requires for typical usage

 

[Scribemole]

I think Andy is doing an amazing job here with his openness and the speed and willingness of his engagement.

As regards the N8 itself, the regular firmware updates are a breath of fresh air with their ease of installation. And my untutored non-technical opinion counts for little but I still want to say that the N8 is the finest DAP I've ever heard as well as being a unique product that brings real pride of ownership.

 

[Andykong]

I wonder if anyone can make a DIY N8 with the info presented so far

On a more seriious note, I think there was a lot of technical data shared so far, more than one requires for typical usage

Just a quick note before I board my ferry to Zhuhai. DIY an N8 is probably not a thread, bur when we disclose the detail, the readership will not limited to DIYers but also our competitors at different levelt.

We can disclose the details of the Spring-loaded suspension system to make Nutube works for portable because we have applied for Patent already, but for details that are not protected by patent or copyright, we should protect our interest and be very careful when we disclose the information on public forum. Anyway, Cayin has done our part to cultivate a technologies and engineering based product development culture in the industry by sharing a lot of technical detail that are not disclosed or explained publicly by other manufacturers, we can talk about next step of information sharing when we see other manufacturers are changing their practise and share their technologies and engineering details.

 

[citiboi]

Okay... I just got the Cayin N8 a couple of days ago. Hands down, one of the best (if not the best) DAPs on the market in terms of power, sound quality and versatility. I totally love how resolving and holographic the sound quality is.

However, I must agree with @Elawarai that the knobs are not made of brass and that is disappointing, bearing in mind that Cayin advertised them as being made of brass. The colour and texture are just inconsistent with brass (or metallic at all). Noting the price, it is totally disconcerting that the knobs are not metallic, at the very least. I just hope that with prolonged use, the gold coating will not get worn out and rubbed off.

 

[21qz]

Anyone else leather case very loose? i understand it shouldn't be tight as a glove, but mine can literally drop out if i put it upside down. Andy, can you help me get a new leather case?

Also what headphones/IEM's are you guys using?

 

[dhc0329]

Okay... I just got the Cayin N8 a couple of days ago. Hands down, one of the best (if not the best) DAPs on the market in terms of power, sound quality and versatility. I totally love how resolving and holographic the sound quality is.

However, I must agree with @Elawarai that the knobs are not made of brass and that is disappointing, bearing in mind that Cayin advertised them as being made of brass. The colour and texture are just inconsistent with brass (or metallic at all). Noting the price, it is totally disconcerting that the knobs are not metallic, at the very least. I just hope that with prolonged use, the gold coating will not get worn out and rubbed off.

Why do you keep insisting that knobs are plastic when the manufacturer already confirmed they are brass? I wouldn't think they be lying in public like this...

 

[citiboi]

@dhc0329 - First of all, "keep insisting..."?? This is my FIRST post in this thread. Secondly, why do you have your knickers in a twist?? I was merely expressing an opinion while WAITING for Andy to show the pre-production knobs sometime after the Chinese New Year. So chill, man...

 

[jmills8]

Sound the N8 rules. Leather case meh, my N8 literally flew out of the case and landed on concrete , still working. Knobs are metal. Iem JVC 10000 , headphone TH900.

 

[dhc0329]

@dhc0329 - First of all, "keep insisting..."?? This is my FIRST post in this thread. Secondly, why do you have your knickers in a twist?? I was merely expressing an opinion while WAITING for Andy to show the pre-production knobs sometime after the Chinese New Year. So chill, man...

Sorry if I sounded too harsh like U18 on R2R2K Dap. I thought your question about knobs was already answered by Cayin person but yes, you have every right to be convinced
for the price you paid for this DAP.

As for the right IEM to compliment N8, I bought Legend X to match R2R2K but it didn't work out because of excessive bass response but EQing N8 to bring down the freq. below 250Hz
it puts my music to next dimension. LX could be superb match for N8 with the adjustment of bass.

 

[citiboi]

Sorry if I sounded too harsh like U18 on R2R2K Dap. I thought your question about knobs was already answered by Cayin person but yes, you have every right to be convinced
for the price you paid for this DAP.

As for the right IEM to compliment N8, I bought Legend X to match R2R2K but it didn't work out because of excessive bass response but EQing N8 to bring down the freq. below 250Hz
it puts my music to next dimension. LX could be superb match for N8 with the adjustment of bass.

No worries All is well and good...