[Whitigir]

Come to think of it that battery thing in a few years in a 4500.00 (CND) dap where i cant replace it is a concern

How would such an issue be dealt with when i need a new battery ?

Send it back to the dealer you purchase from, and get battery services for a fee ?

In case you are DIY handy man, you can try and source the battery through Andy and see if it is possible ?

Anyways, battery devices that is going up into the range of 3-4K is only possible at this moment and present market, even Sony is releasing a DMP-Z1 for 8K, but that device can take external PSU, and battery appeared to be user replaceable, if we can buy the parts in 7 years from now ? Idk, but the whole picture don’t make sense to me yet regarding battery

 

[Rozeqloud]

Send it back to the dealer you purchase from, and get battery services for a fee ?

In case you are DIY handy man, you can try and source the battery through Andy and see if it is possible ?

Anyways, battery devices that is going up into the range of 3-4K is only possible at this moment and present market, even Sony is releasing a DMP-Z1 for 8K, but that device can take external PSU, and battery appeared to be user replaceable, if we can buy the parts in 7 years from now ? Idk, but the whole picture don’t make sense to me yet regarding battery

Thank you

This issue has left me in a pause

Does N8 have what i think is called (power) run through , i mean while charging can i still use it ? And more important , if the battery is absolutely dead (wont recharge say in a few years) can i still use it from the AC electric outlet ?

PS i looked at that sony , it sure is a beast for a portable LOL

Cheers

 

[audionewbi]

Hey Andy, has their been any new decision regarding adoption of MQA playback?

I’m on the verge of buying N8 but after testing the MQA I do believe future is about MQA .

 

[twister6]

I followed this thread for about quite awhile with keen interest in the technology introduced in this DAP. Then it became morbid curiousity once I saw the price. Morbid because I would likely die before spending this much on a DAP.

Looking at everything packed into this unit if the cost doesn't burn a hole in your pocket the unit just might. Seriously I would be worried about my private catching on fire. It seems that Cayin Sony and others have created a brand new category. The UDAP or Unportable Digital Audio Player or U Didn't Actually Pay $3000.00 for a DAP did you. Perhaps UUDAP is more accurate meaning Unaffordable Unportable, you get the rest.

Hey Cayin here is a radical feature to add, and a cheap one to. Give it a user replaceable battery so it won't be a pricey paperweight in 3 years.

If you referring to Sony DMP-Z1, that's not a portable but a transportable DAP. N8 is still portable enough to put in your pocket (on par with WM1Z and SP1000), but you need a backpack for Z1

 

[fish1050]

Ha, yeah its heavy, but I have been using it on the go for 3 hours per day. Im in Hong Kong and Im walking, jumping in trains, buses and taxis with the N8 with TH900 headphone. Im a Coach and I have to go to two to three schools per day. Sometimes Im running to school or a train with the N8 in my basketball shorts. Ha no issues.

If you are using it in public can you really appreciate the sound quality? I mean I could see spending $2000.00 on a home or desktop setup and buying a $500.00 DAP. The only place you could appreciate the sound quality of this unit is likely at home. Plus I would be super paranoid about taking it out in public especially on public transit. So have an equivalent quality desktop system and buy a DAP you aren't afraid to use in public and connect to the desktop system at home. Then when the battery does die you are only out $500 and not $3000 or in my case $4000 since I live in Canada.

Basically the N8 is a battery powered desktop system you can carry around. So buy a desktop system and good quality DAP and you will have the best of both worlds and your desktop system won't die in 3 years.

 

[fish1050]

Come to think of it that battery thing in a few years in a 4500.00 (CND) dap where i cant replace it is a concern

How would such an issue be dealt with when i need a new battery ?

That is a question every DAP buyer should ask the manufacturer, especially when you are paying this much for a DAP. Ask Andy Kong and see what his reply is, possibly you can ship it to the manufacturer and they will replace it. But the cost of two way shipping, insurance, the cost of the battery and labor will run you several hundred dollars I would guess.

If they won't make the battery replaceable they should at least give you one free battery replacement when you spend this much for a DAP. I think if they did make it with a user replaceable battery more people would be willing to take a risk on a $3000 DAP especially one like this with an unproven track record with such new technology.

 

[dhc0329]

I am not sure why you would be so concerned over battery because the lithium ion battery these days last way over 5 years if not more. If anything, I would be concerned over the life expetancy of tube which someone posted to be 30,000 hours (someone pls correct me if I am wrong).

 

[jmills8]

If you are using it in public can you really appreciate the sound quality? I mean I could see spending $2000.00 on a home or desktop setup and buying a $500.00 DAP. The only place you could appreciate the sound quality of this unit is likely at home. Plus I would be super paranoid about taking it out in public especially on public transit. So have an equivalent quality desktop system and buy a DAP you aren't afraid to use in public and connect to the desktop system at home. Then when the battery does die you are only out $500 and not $3000 or in my case $4000 since I live in Canada.

Basically the N8 is a battery powered desktop system you can carry around. So buy a desktop system and good quality DAP and you will have the best of both worlds and your desktop system won't die in 3 years.

Ooo yes I can, easily hear the sound quality. Keeps the city out of my head. I can just wait in line relaxed, in no hurry.

 

[fish1050]

I am not sure why you would be so concerned over battery because the lithium ion battery these days last way over 5 years if not more. If anything, I would be concerned over the life expetancy of tube which someone posted to be 30,000 hours (someone pls correct me if I am wrong).

the

The battery may or may not last that long but battery life will decline over time. I use my Sony A17 as an example, when new I was getting about 36 hours on single charge. Before the second year was up the battery life dropped to about 16 hours and I had the battery replaced under warranty. Sony actually recommends replacing the battery once battery life drops below 50%. If I hadn't had it replaced I can only speculate that the battery life would have dropped to around 10 hours or so by the 3rd year. That was with battery care turned on and charging it before it drained completely each time. It was the same with the replacement unit, initially got about 36 to 37 hours per charge and by the second year I had it life per charge dropped more then half. When you say 5 years how old was the device? I ask because all electronic components including batteries are now designed not to last nearly as long as manufacturers more and more are relying on replacing units and batteries to generate revenue. This is especially true of niche market products like DAP's. How long would DAP manufacturers last if all their customers kept their DAP's for 5 years before replacing them, not long I would guess. But when you make a $3000 DAP you aren't making updated units as often and should expect buyers to want to keep the units longer.

I would be amazed if you get close to 5 years out of the battery in the N8, again I am not willing to risk it for such a high cost.

Early portable amps and even some DAP's had batteries that users could replace including Sony. It was only after 2013 that Sony declared that none of the their portable products going forward would have replaceable batteries. This is because their sales were declining and they needed customers to replace their units more often.

It also depends on how much you use and charge the DAP. The average lithium-ion batter lasts for about 500 charges so the more you charge it the faster it dies. Also, the quality of lithium-ion battery varies and with everything there is always the chance the one you get might die quicker. This unit has a huge battery and it apparently does run hot. Heat can reduce the life expectancy of a battery. I have had some batteries last 5 years and some less than 2 years depending on the quality and batch they came from. I am not willing to risk getting a substandard battery on a $4000 CDN DAP.

Like playing the lottery you buys your DAP you takes your chances only DAP's cost alot more than lottery tickets.

 

[fish1050]

I am not sure why you would be so concerned over battery because the lithium ion battery these days last way over 5 years if not more. If anything, I would be concerned over the life expetancy of tube which someone posted to be 30,000 hours (someone pls correct me if I am wrong).

So what is the projected battery life per charge on the N8? Oh yeah uh despite a 7000mah battery its 7.5h to 9.5h. That is when the unit is new so once the unit starts to age what can you look forward to the battery life per charge dropping to? As the battery life declines the frequency of needing to charge goes up to and the faster the battery ages. Keep in mind that just because it is rated at 7.5 to 9.5 hours does not mean you will actually get that.

Using bluetooth will decrease that even more and I don't want to have to charge my DAP every day. Do you let the battery discharge to empty every time? No, then drop the battery life per charge even more. Lets be crazy and assume you get 8 hours per charge every time (not likely) According to my research most lithium-ion batteries have a rated lifetime of somewhere between 500 and 1,500 charge cycles. This depends on how low the battery life gets before you charge it, charge more frequently get more charges but life per charge drops. So lets assume you get the maximum number of charges, 1500 x 8 hours per charge = 12,000 hours, not 30,000 hours. But lets be realistic and take the medium estimate of 1000 charges x 8 hours = 8000 hours. If you charge it every day that is 1000 days projected battery life. So real world you are looking at less than 3 years of battery life estimated.

Don't take my word for the the projected number of charges, look it up yourself. I am going to want a hell of alot more life out of a $4000 CDN DAP, than maybe 3 years.

The sweet spot for charging a lithium-ion battery is 70% drain or 30% remaining. Start with 8 hours x .70 = 5.6 hours per charge. So 5.6 x 1500 charges = 8400 hours.

But this is wishful thinking because 1) It is impossible to know when you are exactly at 70% drain 2) Battery meters are notoriously inaccurate 3) This calculation assumes the battery life of the battery won't decline over time which it will. Kind of makes my head swim thinking about it.

 

[Decreate]

I guess different people have different priorities when making purchases. In my case, my priority was whether I liked how it sounded and I did which is why I bought it. I carry it around with me whenever I leave the house. It either goes into a Van Nuys belt pouch which I used to use with my WM1Z or into my shoulder bag and I find being able to control via my phone to be extremely convenient for portable use. Although I do have to charge it more often than my WM1Z, I don't really mind...its like my phone which I have to charge everyday anyway. If battery performance does deteriorate after extended use, I have confidence Cayin would be able to help just like how they have helped me in the beginning when I had all sorts of issues with the first unit I got.

 

[jmills8]

I guess different people have different priorities when making purchases. In my case, my priority was whether I liked how it sounded and I did which is why I bought it. I carry it around with me whenever I leave the house. It either goes into a Van Nuys belt pouch which I used to use with my WM1Z or into my shoulder bag and I find being able to control via my phone to be extremely convenient for portable use. Although I do have to charge it more often than my WM1Z, I don't really mind...its like my phone which I have to charge everyday anyway. If battery performance does deteriorate after extended use, I have confidence Cayin would be able to help just like how they have helped me in the beginning when I had all sorts of issues with the first unit I got.

Ha, Im in HK aswell. Im travelling 3 hrs a day with the N8. I bought it because how it sounded, if it just sounded like the other top daps then I would have bought those cause of portability. Yeah the N8 is a heavy beast but its sound makes it worth the effort. Im charging it every other day.

 

[Rozeqloud]

Indeed sound is priority ONE !!!!

Size and weight does not really concern me so much

Also equally import to me is support , which seems Cayin is great with that since i bought the N6

But this is a unique case at 4500.00 Canadian dollars

Thats the cost of a good used car here , and near the price i paid for my RSA Dark Star headphone amp

I wont spend near 5k on a product that may be problematic to use in 3-5 years (Or even more)

The guarantee to be able to & the ease of replacing the battery after its required is now my deciding factor since everything else is all aligned (Even shipping back unit for battery will cost down time and shipping and insurance , i would need to know who covers that and for how long)

AK has a battery replacement plan (1 free replacement i believe?) , or is it AK? , i know a few DAP makers do have such as im told by DAP dealers here in Canada

They assure me Cayin will do same , but i would rather it be a guaranteed Cayin policy before i purchase , instead of assuming based on past great service

Also i would like to know if it has a pass through , by that i mean can i use it with a wall plug even if the battery is DOA?

Will it power on wall plug only ? If it can , that would ease some of my battery concerns , as im likely to do most listening at home , esp in a few years when i may be too old and tired to walk around with a DAP LOL

Im surprised Andy hasnt popped in on this issue . He usually monitors this page well

Maybe he is busy ?

Cheers

 

[fish1050]

This will be my last post in this thread as the N8 will never be a consideration for me.

DAP makers are happy to tell you the projected battery life per charge, but you notice they never mention how many charges you should get out of the battery. To those who say it will last 7 years please qualify that with some usage figures. If you own multiple DAP's and use one randomly then sure it might last 7 years. But if you are like me on a budget and you sell one DAP to be able to afford another and own one at a time. Using it every day you will not get the 7 years some claim and if you have a device that lasted 7 years then it is at least 7 years old. DAP's today are more powerful with more features and more taxing on the battery. If I am spending this much on a DAP then I would use it as much as possible to get the most out of it.

For those who have purchased the N8 I say I truly hope you enjoy your DAP for a long time and you don't have any issues with the battery or otherwise.

 

[Rozeqloud]

This will be my last post in this thread as the N8 will never be a consideration for me.

DAP makers are happy to tell you the projected battery life per charge, but you notice they never mention how many charges you should get out of the battery. To those who say it will last 7 years please qualify that with some usage figures. If you own multiple DAP's and use one randomly then sure it might last 7 years. But if you are like me on a budget and you sell one DAP to be able to afford another and own one at a time. Using it every day you will not get the 7 years some claim and if you have a device that lasted 7 years then it is at least 7 years old. DAP's today are more powerful with more features and more taxing on the battery. If I am spending this much on a DAP then I would use it as much as possible to get the most out of it.

For those who have purchased the N8 I say I truly hope you enjoy your DAP for a long time and you don't have any issues with the battery or otherwise.

As great as this DAP sounds (i havent heard myself , im trusting reviewers and Cayins reputation)

This battery issue on a 4500.00 (CND) DAP has moved me away from consideration ,which pains me as i really wanted this DAP ,but i do not want a 4500.00 paper weight in 3 or 7 or in any amount of years and time

If some questions could be answered , Ie does it have the ability to work from a wall outlet even if the battery is dead ?

That could def. help me make a decision , as it may be a PITA to do , i will do most of my listening a t home near a wall outlet as i get older and go out less

Is there a battery replacement program ? What is it exactly if there is one ?

i believe a few DAP manufacturers do have a t least a one battery replacement program (Ie Astell & Kern?)

Canadian dealers are telling me Cayin has a great 25 year rep (Yes they do i agree) and they will cover such

Thats nice to hear , but i prefer to hear that and the details from Cayin

It seems odd Andy is not posting in on this here , but i feel confident he will soon , he may be involved in other pressing matters ATM

Im really hoping these/my concerns will be addressed so i can make a final decision

The battery concern has moved me from TAKE MY DAMN CASH , to full brakes on the purchase

No disrespect to Cayin in any manner

Maybe Astell & Kern may be the purchase to make or another top DAP maker ?