Cayin N8 TOTL DAP: KORG Nutube, Dual AK4497, 4.4mm phone/line out
Oct 7, 2020 at 10:09 PM Post #3,515 of 3,873
I thought there was supposed to be an N8 firmware update in August - have Cayin given up on the N8 now?

I for one would like to see improved Bluetooth stability - especially LDAC.

Yes, we are cooking an N8 firmware, but I don't have exact delivery date.
 
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Oct 13, 2020 at 11:43 PM Post #3,516 of 3,873
Announcement of Cayin N8 firmware v3.1

New Functions and System Optimization


1. Added Search function in Songs, Artists and Album sections. Music files must be scanned before using this function and only support English alphabet as search parameter, Chinese and Japanese search only support first letter of Pīnyīn or Romaji;

2. Added date and time function in System Setting;

3. Added “Recently Added” list under the List view, this list will display newly added music files in both internal storage and TF card;

3-1. This function requires user to setup date and time and then perform a complete music scan on all storages on your N8 player;

3-2. When user add new music to internal storage or TF card, the system will collect the newly added music files and display in the “Recently Added” list without requiring a music scan. You can play the files directly, or select one or more music file and add to playlist;

3-3. Once the file is added to “Recently Added” list, it will stay there even after new music scan, if you want to remove the file from the Recently Added list, you need to delete the file from the list manually. You can delete the current file, select multiple file to delete, or delete all files in the list;

4. Enabled Bluetooth AAC codec in transmitter and receiver mode;

5. Other Bug fix and optimization.

Please visit Cayin Official Website for more information HERE.

You can also download the firmware update file through Google Drive.
 
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Oct 13, 2020 at 11:59 PM Post #3,517 of 3,873
Thanks for your response but "Till now we didn't receive any independent request to add this feature to N8" - if you go back to about 6 month or earlier on this thread we had
the same conversation with the same exact comment from you stating you never received the request before. Now this is my 2nd suggestion for this feature. :)
But anyway I take it as you can't do it, so the case's closed. No point beating the dead horse. Even without this feature I still have your N8 so it must be still special,
sound wise, of course.

We added Date and Time function to N8 in the new firmware, so we can provide the "Recently Added" feature as a new system list. I did submit your request 6 months ago, but give the involvement is quite substantial, I can't be sure that this is 100% possible until I have the new firmware available for testing.

The function is not perfect, we didn't refresh the list automatically, it just keep adding new items to the list. We have provided "select multiple file" feature in the list and that is the icon on the top right corner of the list, you can add selected file to playlist, or delete selected files. and once you entered the select multiple file page, there is a Select All icon on the top right corner of the list, so you can clear the list manually with three clicks only.
 
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Oct 14, 2020 at 12:16 AM Post #3,518 of 3,873
We added Date and Time function to N8 in the new firmware, so we can provide the "Recently Added" feature as a new system list. I did submit your request 6 months ago, but give the involvement is quite substantial, I can't be sure that this is 100% possible until I have the new firmware available for testing.

The function is not perfect, we didn't refresh the list automatically, it just keep adding new items to the list. We have provided "select multiple file" feature in the list and that is the icon on the top right corner of the list, you can add selected file to playlist, or delete selected files. and once you entered the select multiple file page, there is a Select All icon on the top right corner of the list, so you can clear the list manually with three clicks only.

This is definitely moving in right direction. Thanks for your effort and hard work!
 
Oct 14, 2020 at 12:28 AM Post #3,519 of 3,873
The long awaited Search function is finally available in the new N8 firmware. We can only facilitate "Search" on indexed data, so you need to perform a search before you can search your content, and search function is only available on Album, Artist, and Song tab., we can't perform search on Folder view.

N8 Search UI.jpg
once you entered the search screen, you'll notice that we adopted a mobile phone type alphanumeric input UI. The three botton on the left (123, abc, sym) will change the layout of the data entry buttons to numbers, alphabets or symbols respectively. This is not as convenient as qwerty layout but give the limited space available on N8 screen, we think this actually works better, especially when you have big fat fingers like mine.

Be reminded of the following constraints:
  • Only english alphabets are supported, you can't enter alphabets from other language.
  • If you enter only one character, the search will also include Chinese (Pīnyīn) and Japanese (Romaji), but once you enter the second character, we'll exclude Chinese and Japanese content and only search on english content.
  • This is not a wild card search, it will search the metadata from the first character. For example, if you want to search "The Brothers Four" in your artist tab, you need to enter "the bro", if you enter "bro" as search parameter, The Brothers Four will not show up.
For the record, this will be the last "planned" firmware upgrade of N8 DAP. We won't entertain any new feature request from here on, and unless we run into serious new bug or disastrous situation, this will be the final firmware upgrade for Cayin N8, N8 Brass Black and N8 Stainless Steel Black.
 
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Oct 14, 2020 at 12:46 AM Post #3,520 of 3,873
How do I display the time on the screen after setting the setting the time (adjusting date/clock display/adjust clock time)?
I am not able to see any new songs added under List>Recently added. Maybe I am not setting the time right.
 
Oct 14, 2020 at 12:52 AM Post #3,521 of 3,873
How do I display the time on the screen after setting the setting the time (adjusting date/clock display/adjust clock time)?
I am not able to see any new songs added under List>Recently added. Maybe I am not setting the time right.

Once you setup the date and time, you can see the clock at the standby screen. You have to set the date/time first, then scan your music library, not the other way round. If you still can't see any entry in recently added list after you done these correctly, perform a factory reset (at System menu), and then copy new songs again.


1602651017457.png
 
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Oct 14, 2020 at 1:16 AM Post #3,522 of 3,873
Once you setup the date and time, you can see the clock at the standby screen. You have to set the date/time first, then scan your music library, not the other way round. If you still can't see any entry in recently added list after you done these correctly, perform a factory reset (at System menu), and then copy new songs again.


1602651017457.png

I did a factory reset and now I see the clock on the standby. I set the time again and "scan music" and added the new songs onto one of folders ((tried both internal and TFcard) ) but still no songs under List view.
I do see these new songs on the folders where I moved them though. I will test this out more later to see if I can get this working.
 
Oct 14, 2020 at 2:03 AM Post #3,523 of 3,873
The long awaited Search function is finally available in the new N8 firmware. We can only facilitate "Search" on indexed data, so you need to perform a search before you can search your content, and search function is only available on Album, Artist, and Song tab., we can't perform search on Folder view.

N8 Search UI.jpg
once you entered the search screen, you'll notice that we adopted a mobile phone type alphanumeric input UI. The three botton on the left (123, abc, sym) will change the layout of the data entry buttons to numbers, alphabets or symbols respectively. This is not as convenient as qwerty layout but give the limited space available on N8 screen, we think this actually works better, especially when you have big fat fingers like mine.

Be reminded of the following constraints:
  • Only english alphabets are supported, you can't enter alphabets from other language.
  • If you enter only one character, the search will also include Chinese (Pīnyīn) and Japanese (Romaji), but once you enter the second character, we'll exclude Chinese and Japanese content and only search on english content.
  • This is not a wild card search, it will search the metadata from the first character. For example, if you want to search "The Brothers Four" in your artist tab, you need to enter "the bro", if you enter "bro" as search parameter, The Brothers Four will not show up.
For the record, this will be the last "planned" firmware upgrade of N8 DAP. We won't entertain any new feature request from here on, and unless we run into serious new bug or disastrous situation, this will be the final firmware upgrade for Cayin N8, N8 Brass Black and N8 Stainless Steel Black.
If this will be the last firmware update for the N8 are you saying its replacement will be available soon? Tks.
 
Oct 14, 2020 at 3:53 AM Post #3,524 of 3,873
Hi @Andykong, just wanted to ask you to do something for your future flagship model:
When selecting "Artist" or "album" then the list starts right at the top with "A", right? So when I have thousands of songs and want to get quickly to an album that begins with a "U", then I would have to swipe down half an hour until I reach that "U". I know, with the new firmware I would be able to search. BUT it would be very convenient if you could also include small letters on the right side like I have it on my Calyx M DAP, so when you click on the right side of the screen, you get immediately to the albums that begin with the letter "U" or whatever letter you want (I added a picture, so you know what I mean) ... sooo, please forward that to your technicians that are building your new DAPs, that would be great! :)

IMG_7534.jpg
 
Oct 19, 2020 at 9:38 AM Post #3,525 of 3,873
Headphone Amplification of Cayin N8

From Digital to Analogue


After a lot of comparison and consideration, Cayin adopted two units of AKM AK4497EQ operates in mono mode as our N8 digital platform. This is the new generation premium 32-bit DAC chipset from AKM with class leading digital decoding capability. The AK4497EQ has four output channels, when operate in normal stereo mode, this will be configured as two channels of analogue output (designated as AOUTL1 and AOUTL2) with P and N phases to support a full differential circuit. Alternatively we can use the AK4497EQ in Mono mode, the alternative phase output will no longer available but the DR and S/N will boost to 131dB (DR and S/N) at mono mode.

To make sure the premium DAC chipsets will operate in optimum condition, we have employed two extremely low-noise high-precision Femtosecond Crystal Oscillator with RMS jitter below 0.1ps@10Hz-1MHz. High precision low jitter digital transmission is the base of high quality digital playback. It is how we deliver a natural, non-digital and musical playback to subsequent audio circuit.

As in regular DAC design, the output from DAC chipset will go through a Low Pass Filter (LPF). We decided to use MUSES02 as LPF after numerous listening tests and comparison with other alternatives. We also added a Buffer stage after the LPF for the first time in our DAP, this will boost the output current and handling capability. According to our listening test, this will enhance the density and reproduce a very natural soundstage. The feedback we have collected when we demonstrated N8 prototype at various shows and exhibition has endorsed this observation.

For the 4.4mm balanced phone out, the output from the LPF+Buffer will go through a 2-stage amplification: the Line Driver + Headphone Amplifier. We decided to stick with OPA1622 in the final output stage after we have tested a lot of alternative. While we can achieve fully differential amplification with 2 pieces of OPA1622, we have decided to double that into 4 pieced of OPA1622 and configure them in parallel amplification, this will increase the output current capability and lower the output impedance. In practical, these improvements will translate into better control, ability to sustain a heavier loading, and drive most portable headphones with ease and offers lots of headroom.

For the 3.5mm single-ended phone out, the first thing we need to do is to convert the differential signal into single-ended, and then we’ll go through timbre selection circuit which involves the following three steps:
  1. Alternative first stage amplification (KORG Nutube 6P1 as Vacuum tube amplification)
  2. Timbre selection
  3. Volume matching
We shall explain the innovativeness and engineering involved in this section later. The output from the Timber selection circuit will go through the same Line Driver + Headphone Amplifier circuit but in this case, we only used two pieces of OPA1622 in parallel in the final output stage.

N8 Headphone out.jpg

Dual Output Mode

As mentioned previously, Cayin N8 comes with dual output mode: STD (Standard Mode) and HIGH2 (High Impedance High Output Mode) through our unique power management strategy. At STD mode, N8 will deliver 230mW and 480mW per channel (at 32 Ohm loading) to 3.5mm single ended and 4.4mm balanced phone out respectively. This should provide enough output to handle most, if not all, earphones satisfactory in the market already.

The HIGH2 mode is achieved by altering the operation voltage of the Line Driver and Phone Amplifier modules, this will increase the output level (in Vrms) significantly. The following table compares the two output modes at different loading:

N8 Dual Output Power Rating.jpg

As the figure indicated, the rated output of 4.4 phone out increased by roughly 56% at 32ohm loading, but as the loading impedance increased, the rated output will increase by 167% and 150% respectively at 150Ω and 300Ω loading, that’s why we designed this as High Impedance High output mode.

We want to clarify that the HIGH2 mode are not meant for bringing full size high impedance headphones such as Sennheiser HD800 family into portable applications. These headphones require lots of current to control the diagrams movement accurately (or the magnetic mechanism in case of planars) and the battery in portable DAPs is hardly capable of doing that satisfactory. To the best of our knowledge, there are high impedance IEMs ( oBravo Ra C Series, RHA CL1, Kennerton Algiz, ..) and earbugs (VE Zen V2, …) that certainly can take advantage of the HIGH2 mode. On the other hand, the extra power will not only allow the N8 to drive earphones with difficult load, the improve headroom will benefit a lot of earphones when playback complicated music or extremely dynamic passage.

Battery and Duration

N8 is powered by a 7000mAH custom Lithnium battery, this is the biggest battery in portable DAP according to published specification as of today. Unfortunately even with this huge battery installed, we still can’t achieve the benchmark 10 hours continuous playback with our standard multi-format duration test playlist, but we are very close to that. At standby condition (no playback, screen off, no wireless connection) the N8 can last more than 56 hours. The good news is N8 supports QC2.0 quick charge technology, so you can recover from 20% to 80% in around 2 hours.

The following table provides basic battery duration information for your reference:

N8 Basic Battery Duration.jpg

For the record, our battery duration test was conducted with 32ohm loading, display off, all wireless off, mid-gain, volume at 35. Theoretically we can develop a super power saving mode to extend the battery duration by lower the operation voltage of selected Op-Amps, but this will certainly affect the sound quality of the N8 audio circuit and we have decided to maintain our “Audio is priority” principle.

Specification (Headphone related)

N8 Phone Out Sepcificaiotn.jpg
So this isn’t meant to drive the HD800 or HD800s headphones in a portable manner? Why not? Excuse my question but I’m a Noobie and was looking at this for my HD800s. Thanks to anyone who answers.
 

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