[Andykong]

May be I missed, but any word on the operating system for the N8?
Is it still based on android?

N8 is not Android based, it is a SOC (System-on-Chip) implementation and we use our own operating system instead.

 

[seanwee]

I bet cayin will ditch android on this player and use their own OS.

N8 is not Android based, it is a SOC (System-on-Chip) implementation and we use our own operating system instead.

What did I tell ye?

 

[Andykong]

Now what I like to know of the nutube can act like a preamp, a sort of hybrid design, that would be awesome.

Great that solid-state or tube output can be used but nonsense if the Nutube is bypassed during balanced output. Why claim all-out design if we can't get balanced, tube output?

I knoire there's not enough room for dual Nutubes but does that also mean one of the DAC chips is bypassed for single-ended use (i.e. one AKM4497 chip used for SE and the other for balanced; notice the N8 press release says two chipsets instead of 'dual')?

Nah but I think I nailed the Analog output section which is most important right ;3
Though am I understanding that with the Fully Balanced output it's just Solid State? If so that's not to bad, means I don't have to worry AS much about balanced connectors as I would be quite happy to run the Tube Output via the 3.5mm LO inot my existing solid state amps. Though having both options would be cool which is again the whole theme I'm seeing here, options! Options for every one an everything

I'll try to tackle several tube output related issues in one post:

the Nutube is part of the headphone amplifier circuit, this is the only place we can use it. The line out signal path will definitely bypass the headphone amp circuit in order to remain as clean as possible. In N8 design framework, both balanced and single end line out are as close to DAC chipset output as possible, we only implemented a Low Pass Filter with buffer between the DAC chipset and line amplifier. For the record, we still need a line amplifier if we want to achieve a high quality desktop grade line out instead of wire the DAC output to the line out connectors directly. The main different between a line amplifier and a headphone amplifier is the former involve only voltage amplification while the later involve both voltage and current amplification.

If we use Nutube for balanced audio output, we need two pieces of Nutube, there is no exception, even cost-no-objective design will not be able to override this requirement. The N8 is fairly big for DAP already, we have do all we can to make it possible to control most (definitely not all) features with single hand, and fairly easy to hold with one hand. If we use Two Nutube instead of one, either the screen will be reduced to a 1.5 inch 4-lines text-based LCD display and battery life as short as 2-3 hours per change, or we need to extend the N8 by roughly 35mm long and battery life at around 4+ hours. Isn't it common sense that cost-no-objective does mean we can ignore the scientific (physic and electronic engineering) constraints, and there issues that can't be solve by money or devoting more resources. So the true meaning of cost-no-objective is to deliver the best result even when the solution required out-of-proportion resources.

When you are listening to the 3.5mm output of N8, you are still using TWO DAC at the same time. To explain this in simplified terms, the LEFT AK4497 delivers the L+ and L- signal, the RIGHT AK4497 delivers the R+ and R- signal. The 4.4mm balanced output will utilize all four L+, L-, R+ and R- signal, while the two 3.5mm single-ended output will use L+ and R+ signal from LEFT and RIGHT AK4497. Using two DAC chipset instead of one in single-ended purpose does offer better THD, dynamic range and channel separation, so Cayin is not being nonsense.

To summarize, you can change between tube and Solid State in 3.5mm headphone output, but you only have solid state output with 3.5mm line out and 4.4mm headphone out and line out.

 

[lithiumnk]

I have updated the press release on the front page, I just noticed I used an older version of Press Release draft when I need to do a last minute editing before I send out the press release, The revised version reads "It features two AKM AK4497EN DAC chipsets and can native decode up to DSD256 and 32 Bit/ 384kHz, sorry for the misunderstanding I have caused. The previous specification was written based on the capability of AK4497, the updated was in place because of the limitation of MCU and DSP engine before we feed the data bit-stream to AK4497.

Hello @Andykong
What is the difference between AK 4497 EQ and AK 4497 EN?
Only 4497EQ velvet sound Verita series is listed on asahi kaise website.

 

[seanwee]

Hello @Andykong
What is the difference between AK 4497 EQ and AK 4497 EN?
Only 4497EQ velvet sound Verita series is listed on asahi kaise website.

Probably a typo

 

[alphanumerix1]

Found a video about the N8 on youtube

The knobs are way too big imo.

 

[fuhransahis]

Can't remember and can't seem to find it but has the power output been listed?

 

[Andykong]

Hello @Andykong
What is the difference between AK 4497 EQ and AK 4497 EN?
Only 4497EQ velvet sound Verita series is listed on asahi kaise website.

That's a typo, I have corrected it immediately, thank you for pointing out my mistake.

On the other hand, I am really looking forward to AK4497EN, from previous experience with AKM, EN stand for same circuit and function of EQ but in a smaller firm factor and will consume less power.

 

[seanwee]

Can't remember and can't seem to find it but has the power output been listed?

Not yet

 

[gr8soundz]

I'll try to tackle several tube output related issues in one post:

the Nutube is part of the headphone amplifier circuit, this is the only place we can use it. The line out signal path will definitely bypass the headphone amp circuit in order to remain as clean as possible. In N8 design framework, both balanced and single end line out are as close to DAC chipset output as possible, we only implemented a Low Pass Filter with buffer between the DAC chipset and line amplifier. For the record, we still need a line amplifier if we want to achieve a high quality desktop grade line out instead of wire the DAC output to the line out connectors directly. The main different between a line amplifier and a headphone amplifier is the former involve only voltage amplification while the later involve both voltage and current amplification.

If we use Nutube for balanced audio output, we need two pieces of Nutube, there is no exception, even cost-no-objective design will not be able to override this requirement. The N8 is fairly big for DAP already, we have do all we can to make it possible to control most (definitely not all) features with single hand, and fairly easy to hold with one hand. If we use Two Nutube instead of one, either the screen will be reduced to a 1.5 inch 4-lines text-based LCD display and battery life as short as 2-3 hours per change, or we need to extend the N8 by roughly 35mm long and battery life at around 4+ hours. Isn't it common sense that cost-no-objective does mean we can ignore the scientific (physic and electronic engineering) constraints, and there issues that can't be solve by money or devoting more resources. So the true meaning of cost-no-objective is to deliver the best result even when the solution required out-of-proportion resources.

When you are listening to the 3.5mm output of N8, you are still using TWO DAC at the same time. To explain this in simplified terms, the LEFT AK4497 delivers the L+ and L- signal, the RIGHT AK4497 delivers the R+ and R- signal. The 4.4mm balanced output will utilize all four L+, L-, R+ and R- signal, while the two 3.5mm single-ended output will use L+ and R+ signal from LEFT and RIGHT AK4497. Using two DAC chipset instead of one in single-ended purpose does offer better THD, dynamic range and channel separation, so Cayin is not being nonsense.

To summarize, you can change between tube and Solid State in 3.5mm headphone output, but you only have solid state output with 3.5mm line out and 4.4mm headphone out and line out.

Thanks for the explanation.

So, although it can only work via the 3.5mm headphone out, the Nutube can indeed be switched on/off.

 

[Andykong]

Thanks for the explanation.

So, although it can only work via the 3.5mm headphone out, the Nutube can indeed be switched on/off.

Yes, must be, because it drain battery really fast, we have to turn it off when you select SS output from Single ended, there will be a few seconds delay when you switch from SS to tube because we need to heat up the tube, the delay will depend on the temperature of the tube when you initiate the switch.

 

[PinkyPowers]

Yes, must be, because it drain battery really fast, we have to turn it off when you select SS output from Single ended, there will be a few seconds delay when you switch from SS to tube because we need to heat up the tube, the delay will depend on the temperature of the tube when you initiate the switch.

That is so freaking cool!

Did I miss it, or have the output voltages not been released yet?

 

[Andykong]

Can't remember and can't seem to find it but has the power output been listed?

That is so freaking cool!

Did I miss it, or have the output voltages not been released yet?

No, you didn't miss it, we haven't publish the power rating. We shall measure the engineering units later. The demo units will head to Bejing right after the High End 2018 for its debut in China (26-27 May), we should be able to provide more detail along this line by early June.

 

[Andykong]

Seems like the second part of the press release is already available in Chinese.



English version is not available yet.

This is a series of introduction aimed at our customers in China, we don't have solid plan to synchronized the content, so can't promise English version to start with. The same apply to the explanation I have written in English, they are not available in Chinese either.

We shall explore more detail of N8 design concepts and features later on, we have to complete the migration from R&D to production in due course so we are at least 2-3 months away from product launch. Our usual practice is to launch a DAP in domestic market first, international market will launch at 2-4 weeks after that.

 

[Andykong]

Joking aside i'm sure cayin had to make some design considerations with fitting in the "tube" and solid state sections. I just wish the screen was larger in size in comparison to the unit it looks disproportionate and the home button was a different shape

While the home button can theoretically (but unlikely) be changed to a different shape (or color for that matters), the size of the screen are fixed due to space constraint. You have nailed the reason for that: fitting the Nutube into N8 requires a lot of consideration. Let's examine the dimension in more detail.

The tentative dimension of N8 is 128mm x 70mm x 20mm (LxWxH), the Nutube required 46.7mm x 17mm x 6.2mm (excluding the pins), and it will sit on 1mm above the PCB. the 7.2mm (6.2mm + 1mm) "thickness" requirement has ruled out the option to put the screen on top of the Nutube, and right now, if you look at the N8 photo carefully, you'll notice that the screen are installed immediately above the Nutube. that is the reason why we can't use a bigger (or longer) screen in N8.

To install a bigger screen, we have to overlap the screen "over" the Nutube. Assuming we can resolve the heat dispenser problem, this will require a dramatic increase in thickness of N8.

On the other hand, while the screen might looks small on the overall N8 form factor, the important issue is to make sure it function as a display and control (touch screen) of a DAP effectively.we can comment on that when I publish the final version of UI design, but I fairly happy with what we have right now, and I hope most, if not all, N8 users will agree with me eventually.