[Pictograms]

Don’t forget also that the SE can toggle between Nutubes or not

Yes, the Tube/SS option is a pull down menu item, it will be covered later.

 

[seanwee]

You can't convert single ended to balanced since the ground between L/R sides in SE is shorted together, so no 3.5mm to balanced conversion. Btw, to eliminate confusion, probably a good idea not to refer to 3.5mm as mini jack otherwise we have to call 2.5mm as micro jack and 4.4mm as super sized jack

Regarding full size cans with sp1000 at the shows on A&K stands, most likely those are A&K rebranded Beyer cans they promote Also, I wouldn't worry about the power. The fact that Cayin is including 4.4mm to xlr converter cables suggests they are planning to have plenty of juice for a full size cans. And I wouldn't be surprised if NuTube driven SE output has plenty of power as well. We need to wait until the final spec is released and we get more impressions of production units, rather then engineering samples with alpha fw.

Then the 6.3mm jack would be the Jumbo sized jack

 

[twister6]

Don’t forget also that the SE can toggle between Nutubes or not

true, a dual tone sound sig and an option to save battery

 

[Mimouille]

Don’t forget also that the SE can toggle between Nutubes or not

I can't believe I went to this event especially to try this player and didn't try the Nutube. They saw me testing the player on balanced and didn't tell me

 

[fuhransahis]

I can't believe I went to this event especially to try this player and didn't try the Nutube. They saw me testing the player on balanced and didn't tell me

Maybe they didn't want to disturb your moment with the cosplay girl

 

[Rozeqloud]

You can't convert single ended to balanced since the ground between L/R sides in SE is shorted together, so no 3.5mm to balanced conversion. Btw, to eliminate confusion, probably a good idea not to refer to 3.5mm as mini jack otherwise we have to call 2.5mm as micro jack and 4.4mm as super sized jack

Regarding full size cans with sp1000 at the shows on A&K stands, most likely those are A&K rebranded Beyer cans they promote Also, I wouldn't worry about the power. The fact that Cayin is including 4.4mm to xlr converter cables suggests they are planning to have plenty of juice for a full size cans. And I wouldn't be surprised if NuTube driven SE output has plenty of power as well. We need to wait until the final spec is released and we get more impressions of production units, rather then engineering samples with alpha fw.

Thanks mate this is very helpful

All that juice in such a small case . Such a great time to be alive

I could only imagine these things as a kid . Nothing was portable...well we had those mono turntable suitcases if anyone remembers those LOL Carry those around with bags or cartons full of vinyl

So to sum it , in brief

i can (with my present SE) switch between tube or not tube ? Because that is switchable in a drop down menu ?

Thats good news (If im correct?)

But if i want balanced with my CIEMs , since there is no 3.5mm to balanced apapter possible , i have to get a totally new and seperate cable running right from my CIEMs 2-pin/CIEM/0.78mm to the 4.4 mm jacks on the N8 ?

This means that i have to do something i dont like doing , since those wee plugs are so sensitive on my CIEMs , i have to switch in and out a different physical cable each time with my CIEMs when i wish to go from tube to balanced ?

If i wish to use my HD800s ,which have dual full size 3 pin xlr (male) , N8 provides that , but only for tube ?


If i want balanced to my HD 800s that should be as easy as an adapter from full size xlr(already on my HD 800s) to 4.4mm balanced to N8 ?

I ve checked my balances today , if this is 2500.00 im still a few hundred short , but could save that

What i would have to do is limit the cables i bought , if any , to afford the DAP



I hate compromise lol

Thank you again

 

[twister6]

Thanks mate this is very helpful

All that juice in such a small case . Such a great time to be alive

I could only imagine these things as a kid . Nothing was portable...well we had those mono turntable suitcases if anyone remembers those LOL Carry those around with bags or cartons full of vinyl

So to sum it , in brief

i can (with my present SE) switch between tube or not tube ? Because that is switchable in a drop down menu ?

Thats good news (If im correct?)

But if i want balanced with my CIEMs , since there is no 3.5mm to balanced apapter possible , i have to get a totally new and seperate cable running right from my CIEMs 2-pin/CIEM/0.78mm to the 4.4 mm jacks on the N8 ?

This means that i have to do something i dont like doing , since those wee plugs are so sensitive on my CIEMs , i have to switch in and out a different physical cable each time with my CIEMs when i wish to go from tube to balanced ?

If i wish to use my HD800s ,which have dual full size 3 pin xlr (male) , N8 provides that , but only for tube ?


If i want balanced to my HD 800s that should be as easy as an adapter from full size xlr(already on my HD 800s) to 4.4mm balanced to N8 ?

I ve checked my balances today , if this is 2500.00 im still a few hundred short , but could save that

What i would have to do is limit the cables i bought , if any , to afford the DAP



I hate compromise lol

Thank you again

No need to switch anything. You get a cable with 2pin C/IEM connectors and 2.5mm balanced headphone termination, and get a few adapters where you only switch between those adapters. Attach your 2pin connectors once and that's it.

Don't want to derail the thread, but maybe for a benefit of others, here is an example of @PLUSSOUND Tri-copper IEM cable (since you mentioned PS before):



This way you have 2.5mm by default, and can use either 3.5mm or 4.4mm adapters, depending on your source.

 

[Rozeqloud]

No need to switch anything. You get a cable with 2pin C/IEM connectors and 2.5mm balanced headphone termination, and get a few adapters where you only switch between those adapters. Attach your 2pin connectors once and that's it.

Don't want to derail the thread, but maybe for a benefit of others, here is an example of @PLUSSOUND Tri-copper IEM cable (since you mentioned PS before):



This way you have 2.5mm by defauilt, and can use either 3.5mm or 4.4mm adapters, depending on your source.

Thanks again mate
Good infos for plussound too

 

[twister6]

Thanks again mate
Good infos for plussound too

In general, any cable manufacturer can make a cable per your requirements with corresponding adapters

 

[Andykong]

Apparently the Nutubes sound more like an extremely clean solid state amp (someone posted it here a while ago). Still a pity @Mimouille didn't get to try it.

@Andykong surely you can give us your impressions right? Not as an employee of Cayin but as a fellow audiophile.

Sorry, I don't think that's appropriate, at least not at this moment when I am the only "opinion". I'll try my best to cover the technical explanation but I'll leave the subjective evaluation to users and reviewers.

 

[Andykong]

From the discussion on this it seems like a good opportunity for the company to offer customized components -- similar to when you order a cable and pay additive amounts for increased length and various terminations.
Same with various speaker finishes (eg Salk, JTR, Seaton, etc).
Create one or a few large batch runs and allow a charge (let's say +$20 or +$50 or more for very customized).
Seems that would be a niche for users and likely a high margin for the company.

Mike

The N8 at Munich High-End 2018 is our latest engineering sample, there are on-going refinement at circuitry as well exterior design/workmanship of N8, lets hope the final product will "discard" the need for customization as suggested. For the record, if we are going for some kind of customization similar to what have been suggested, the cost will be significantly higher.

 

[Andykong]

I'm new to DAPs, but stepping back a bit as a potential buyer as well as just interested in DAP development, we have:

SE +/- Nutubes
Balanced - no Nutubes

I don't know much about DAPs, but all my reading about headphone amps is that you want to use the best output possible.
Ignoring any possible reliability issues with Nutubes, there is still the utility issue.
I read the prior technical explanation of why SE got the Nutube treatment, but it doesn't seem like it would be used if trying to use the optimal outputs (balanced).
Seems over compromised for a "price no object" product.
I applaud the idea, but seems tricky as I'm imagining the use cases.

Thoughts?

Mike


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...25th-anniversary.879025/page-27#post-14244710
"Yes, the Tube/SS option is a pull down menu item, it will be covered later. "

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...25th-anniversary.879025/page-22#post-14236650

You are assuming balanced is the optimal output of all design, all products. This is NOT necessary the case in high fidelity industry. I can't comment on what other manufacturers are doing, I simply urge you to listen and make up your own mind. Please don't quote any comparison between the balanced output vs single-ended output of the same DAP, this is an unfair approach to start with. The fair game is to compare a $500 or $3000 single-end designed DAP to a similarly priced balanced designed DAP.

 

[Andykong]

Everybody knows I am not an easy guy, and while it was not perfect for me, I have to give it to you guys, you are bringing something new and interesting to the game and it sounds like music. Good job.

Well, I do aware of that and that's why I think N8 is having a very good start based on your first impression. I am not sure if we are going to organize a tour or something like that in China, if we do, I can certainly refer you to the N8 tour when it happens.

 

[Mike-WI]

The N8 at Munich High-End 2018 is our latest engineering sample, there are on-going refinement at circuitry as well exterior design/workmanship of N8, lets hope the final product will "discard" the need for customization as suggested. For the record, if we are going for some kind of customization similar to what have been suggested, the cost will be significantly higher.

Re- reading myself, I wasn't very clear.
I was referring to the discussion of custom colors - case, knobs, etc.
It does appear their is a market for that -- even at a higher cost to the consumer and a higher margin to the company.
Presumably that is why companies are on forums, to get input from prior and potential future customers.

Mike

 

[Mike-WI]

You are assuming balanced is the optimal output of all design, all products. This is NOT necessary the case in high fidelity industry.

1. I'm not assuming that.
I believe the idea is to use the best output available. That depends on implementation, but your product has a balanced output, so presumably you think that is a good idea.
Otherwise, you could just have a SE output and simplify the design. If balanced isn't the best output, then why add it on to your product?
I was just noting that if people want to use balanced headphones they can't utilize the Nutubes.
I think that is factually accurate and will come up as people consider buying this
Or, buy it and not realize this fact. Bookmark my comments and we'll see.

I can't comment on what other manufacturers are doing, I simply urge you to listen and make up your own mind.

2. Since I and others don't have access to this DAP and it is hard to compare multiple DAPs at once except at various events -- that not everyone can attend -- this is what we do on audio forums.
We are intrigued by various products and designs, ask questions and speculate.
If you want to send me a loaner I would be happy to listen and make up my own mind.
I am DAP shopping, so very interested.

Please don't quote any comparison between the balanced output vs single-ended output of the same DAP, this is an unfair approach to start with. The fair game is to compare a $500 or $3000 single-end designed DAP to a similarly priced balanced designed DAP.

3. I am sure every reviewer WILL compare the output sound characteristics of the same DAP.
Why wouldn't they.
If balanced is not the optimal design in this DAP, they will say that.
If balanced is the optimal output but can't use the Nutubes, I'm sure potential buyers will want to know that.


The reason I am on this thread is that I am DAP shopping and this product sounds interesting.

Mike