tonyl59
100+ Head-Fier
I am getting exactly the same with my newly-acquired N7. I haven't measured the temperature, but I can believe 51 degrees C!
Cayin N7: A Voyager of Unexplored Frontier
- Thread starter Andykong
- Start date
kcsound777
Head-Fier
yeah... it gets pretty hot...
To the N7 users here, what are your experiences with the N7 getting hot like this especially using 4.4mm PO? Is this normal?
maerchenmann
New Head-Fier
It's true, the N7 does get pretty hot, I actually only use it in the case, which is a bit of a shame because I really like the look of it. In the summer I found the temperature problem to be even worse.
Which amp mode, how many hour(s) of playtime, PCM to DSD mode? Class A will definitely get toasty with less than or close to N30LE (with dual tubes) temps from my past measurements.
For example, I performed a temp check of my N30LE with:
- 2 hours of Hyper Mode (Class A) playback
- H gain, Tube Timbre Classic
- Volume ranging from 16-24
- Streaming Tidal, ranging from 16/44.1 to 24/192
- BT off
- Temps average 80.2F / 27C
- For 4 hours of Hyper Mode playback, temps ranged from 88.4 to 88.8F or 31.33 to 31.55C
grraznazn
New Head-Fier
I was originally considering the RU6 or RU7. However, after researching a little bit more about DAPs, I decided to splurge on the N7, and I am very glad I did.
This was my first standalone music listening device since ipods went out of fashion, and I find the experience to be much more enjoyable than listening from a phone. I always found myself getting distracted with phone use when listening to music. Now, with a dedicated device, I find myself more "in the moment". When browsing through my phone the music was just background noise, but now the music is the focus, and I come away feeling relaxed and refreshed or energized and pumped up (depending on the music of course).
As this is my first Hifi dap, I can only compare it various DACs paired with my iPhone. The sound is very smooth and detailed, and I would say the presentation is very similar to my Ares/887 setup.
In terms of build, it is very premium. The volume knob is excellent and the operating system is very fast and responsive. It is quite heavy and large for a portable device, definitely not something for running or jamming out like in the old iphone commercials. That being said, it is great for use in a portable/travel hifi system. I mostly use it at my desk at work or when I travel.
This was my first standalone music listening device since ipods went out of fashion, and I find the experience to be much more enjoyable than listening from a phone. I always found myself getting distracted with phone use when listening to music. Now, with a dedicated device, I find myself more "in the moment". When browsing through my phone the music was just background noise, but now the music is the focus, and I come away feeling relaxed and refreshed or energized and pumped up (depending on the music of course).
As this is my first Hifi dap, I can only compare it various DACs paired with my iPhone. The sound is very smooth and detailed, and I would say the presentation is very similar to my Ares/887 setup.
In terms of build, it is very premium. The volume knob is excellent and the operating system is very fast and responsive. It is quite heavy and large for a portable device, definitely not something for running or jamming out like in the old iphone commercials. That being said, it is great for use in a portable/travel hifi system. I mostly use it at my desk at work or when I travel.
Please rest assured that 51 degrees C is well within the operation condition of the N7 circuitries. For the record, electronic and semiconductor components are designed to operate over a specified temperature range with upper limits generally set at 70°C for commercial applications, 85°C for industrial applications, and 125°C for military applications.
The N7 runs hot when it is operated in Class A mode and that is part of the characteristic of Class A circuit design.
With Class AB, the circuit operates as a push-pull amplifier. For each amplification device (transistor or Op-Amp) that handles the positive half-cycle of the waveform, there will be a similar device to take care of the negative half-cycle. When the waveform is on the positive side of its swing, the positive amplification device is working while the amplification negative device is turned off. There will be a switch from the positive amplification device to the negative amplification device at the point where the wave crosses from positive to negative. It is impossible to create a perfect switch in real life, and this will introduce minor distortion in due course. On the plus side, Class AB is relativie efficient because the output devices only operate for half the waveform.
In Class A operation the output device stays on all the time. We can achieve perfect switching and eliminate the distortion that can't be avoided in Class A. That explains why Class A sounds cleaner and more natural for most people. On the other hand, since the output devices are constantly on when the circuitry operates in Class A, it is less efficient and generates more heat.
Since we can't design a Class A circuitry that runs cool, we try to improve the heat dissipation by using the aluminum chassis as a heat sink to the circuitry. That is the biggest possible surface area which is the crucial consideration of physical heat dissipation. In other words, when you feel the heat of the DAP, the heat management design is working properly.
Last but not least, since the extra heat energy is to be expected when N7 is operated in Class A, we can choose to use it practically. For generic usage when the DAP is operated in a well-ventilated condition, just let it sing at its best at Class A, but when you need to use N7 in a not-so-well-ventilated situation, such as putting the DAP inside a backpack, you can switch from Class A to Class AB temporarily.
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Soundvibrations
Head-Fier
Good morning everyone, sorry if I'm boring with these questions.
I'm undecided between an n7 + C9 or an n8ii, I listen to everything almost always with the iem, I have a ru07 dongle and I really like the sound but I find for my tastes that the highs don't extend as I would like and the mid-highs are not so transparent. .
there is a huge difference between ru07 and n7 and above all can n7 + c9 reach the same levels as n8ii? In reality, from the various forums I have seen it is not very clear to me, often opinions contradict each other... thanks in advance to anyone who wants to answer me !
I'm undecided between an n7 + C9 or an n8ii, I listen to everything almost always with the iem, I have a ru07 dongle and I really like the sound but I find for my tastes that the highs don't extend as I would like and the mid-highs are not so transparent. .
there is a huge difference between ru07 and n7 and above all can n7 + c9 reach the same levels as n8ii? In reality, from the various forums I have seen it is not very clear to me, often opinions contradict each other... thanks in advance to anyone who wants to answer me !
grraznazn
New Head-Fier
I have not been able to experience the N8ii myself, but this review below describes the differences in the treble presentation. They also go on to say that when paired with the C9, it is very similar to the N8ii in tonality. See also their review of the RU7 for comparisons to the N7. Their description lines up with my experience with the RU7 and N7.
Excerpt from Twister6's N7 Review
"N7 (HG, AB) vs N8ii (HG, AB, Tube, P+) – N7 soundstage expansion is a bit wider. Tonality between these two is slightly different. Their bass response is similar, both DAPs have a deeper rumble and more articulate bass characteristics. With mids, especially when you focus on female vocals, you get a little thinner and more revealing tonality with N8ii while N7 adds more texture and body without compromising on retrieval of details. Treble presentation is also slightly different, with N8ii having more airy sparkle and N7 having a more natural textured extension without losing micro-details. If you want more shimmer in your cymbals, N8ii will get you there, but if you like more natural tonality while keeping upper frequency details, N7 does a great job."
RU7 comparison to N7
kcsound777
Head-Fier
Thank you Andy for your detailed explanation, it's great that the N7 AB mode also sounds great and I don't mind switching to AB mode when I need to cool things down.Please rest assured that 51 degrees C is well within the operation condition of the N7 circuitries. For the record, electronic and semiconductor components are designed to operate over a specified temperature range with upper limits generally set at 70°C for commercial applications, 85°C for industrial applications, and 125°C for military applications.
The N7 runs hot when it is operated in Class A mode and that is part of the characteristic of Class A circuit design.
With Class AB, the circuit operates as a push-pull amplifier. For each amplification device (transistor or Op-Amp) that handles the positive half-cycle of the waveform, there will be a similar device to take care of the negative half-cycle. When the waveform is on the positive side of its swing, the positive amplification device is working while the amplification negative device is turned off. There will be a switch from the positive amplification device to the negative amplification device at the point where the wave crosses from positive to negative. It is impossible to create a perfect switch in real life, and this will introduce minor distortion in due course. On the plus side, Class AB is relativie efficient because the output devices only operate for half the waveform.
In Class A operation the output device stays on all the time. We can achieve perfect switching and eliminate the distortion that can't be avoided in Class A. That explains why Class A sounds cleaner and more natural for most people. On the other hand, since the output devices are constantly on when the circuitry operates in Class A, it is less efficient and generates more heat.
Since we can't design a Class A circuitry that runs cool, we try to improve the heat dissipation by using the aluminum chassis as a heat sink to the circuitry. That is the biggest possible surface area which is the crucial consideration of physical heat dissipation. In other words, when you feel the heat of the DAP, the heat management design is working properly.
Last but not least, since the extra heat energy is to be expected when N7 is operated in Class A, we can choose to use it practically. For generic usage when the DAP is operated in a well-ventilated condition, just let it sing at its best at Class A, but when you need to use N7 in a not-so-well-ventilated situation, such as putting the DAP inside a backpack, you can switch from Class A to Class AB temporarily.
I do have one question about the cpu mode which was brought to my attention on my Hiby R6pro ii that I also recently bought as a member in the forum here raised a question, that someone noticed on the R6proii as part of investing possible overheating issue, the R6proii by default has all the cpu chips running at full 100% 'at all times' even when no apps are running (this was checked by the common cpu monitor app from google playstore), that member also found that the cpu mode under developer's mode is set to 'performance mode' which likely made the cpu to be at 100% always. Now to my surprise, when I check this with the cpu monitor app on the Cayin N7 it shows that it has all the chips running at full 100% even when no apps are running, I don't know if this is an Android 12 thing or something else, is there a reason that the N7 has to be running at full 100% on all chips all the time? This can't be a good thing for the cpus and battery I imagine? If you can comment on this it would be much appreciated.
All things aside I am very happy with the N7!
Thanks
Ken
By default, our DAPs operate in high-performance mode. We have performed extensive testing before we select this option.
First of all, unlike the lower-end MP3 player, Hi-Res audio playback is a performance-intensive application, we need to deliver relatively high performance to ensure smoothness and high-quality audio output when the screen is active, and high-performance mode is a safer way of doing this, instead of adjusting or overclocking the CPU. Android devices can change clocking dynamically based on the system load. This behavior is good for power savings during use but can make it difficult to get reliable performance.
"If you are trying to determine how fast a code fragment can run for regression prevention, or if an optimization is repeatable, your results won't be reliable if they aren't tested at fixed clock speeds. With fixed clocks, you can do accurate A/B testing of performance without changes in the CPU frequency being a factor." (Optimize thermal and CPU performance)
Most discussions on high-performance mode are centered around game playback. One of the primary reasons to use Performance Mode is its ability to render higher frame rates, especially when we want to ensure a smoother gaming experience that will minimize stutters, lags, and motion blur during fast-paced gameplay. Music playback shared similar concerns. When we only handle 44.1kHz sampling frequency, the application is not demanding. However, when we want to achieve smooth and high-quality playback of 22.58 MHz content, high-performance mode is preferred.
Having said that, while the high-performance mode is much preferred in Hi-res audio handling, In our actual tests, there is not much difference in actual power consumption between the high-performance mode and other performance modes when playing audio with the screen on. This is because the majority of power is consumed by the display and analog audio.
Last but not least, when your DAP is in standby mode with the screen off, it doesn't matter whether you are in high-performance mode or other performance mode because the CPU is idle. So high performance mode does not affect standby duration.
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m3lover1
Head-Fier
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2017
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Is there any way to reverse the hardware button order? So the button below the power button is skip forward instead of backwards?
Hey guys,
I’m considering to buy the N7. I have 2 questions. Are there Lip-sync delays on the Bluetooth connection using the DAP on a Mac or Apple TV (to watch movies and use the player for the audio transfer to the headphones)?
Did someone tested the DAP with the HiFiman Arya Organic or the HE1000 Stealth?
I’m considering to buy the N7. I have 2 questions. Are there Lip-sync delays on the Bluetooth connection using the DAP on a Mac or Apple TV (to watch movies and use the player for the audio transfer to the headphones)?
Did someone tested the DAP with the HiFiman Arya Organic or the HE1000 Stealth?
If you like RU7's sound signature in general and are looking for improvement, N7 + C9 is a safe bet for you. This combo will be a significant improvement over RU7 in all dimensions.
Compared to N8ii, N7+C9, the RoHM DAC sounds different from the 1-bit DAC in N7, but both combo offer lots of sound shaping setting tools so you are not limited to one sound signature, and this will narrow down the difference.
From a practical point of view, N7+C9 is more versatile because it offers a much larger range in handling and driving capability, so you can have the flexibility to try out a lot of full-size headphones down the road, the N8ii offers better portability when it squeezes all you need for IEM into one single package. If you can live with less portability, the N7+C9 would be my recommended choice for you.
Hi All,
I just updated to the latest software and I‘ve lost the option (under Settings -> Advanced -> USB preferences) to set the USB port to drive an external USB DAC. Has this functionality been lost?
I just updated to the latest software and I‘ve lost the option (under Settings -> Advanced -> USB preferences) to set the USB port to drive an external USB DAC. Has this functionality been lost?
Soundvibrations
Head-Fier
Many thanks Andy,
after several searches 3 days ago I opted for N7 + C9, I am happy now to read that your advice corresponds to what I did!
Even though I think it would have been fine anyway, I was surprised by the sound of the RU7 which I think Cayin is right for me!
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