[seanwee]

Doh! why didn't I try that? Usually I'm fairly good with this stuff, total user failure Thanks Andy!!

Lol, luckily I tap the screen a few times when I suspect there is a freeze.

Don't feel bad. That threw me the first time also. It looks like nothing more than a greeting message, not a button. It took me a minutes to even think to tap it with my finger.

I think I may have also waited a minute at that screen lol

 

[seanwee]

In terms of microprocessor loading, there isn't significant different between digital output and headphone output. Normal playback shouldn't cause the N5ii to freeze, but if you insert a TF card during playback, or initiate a number of control steps during playback, this could indeed cause the DAP to freeze.

When you insert a TF card (or an OTG storage), the N5ii will "process" the new storage media immediately, assess the total storage space and remaining storage space of the media and prepare the media for folder view operation. This is short-term CPU intensive operation, definitely not a problem when the DAP is idle, but stressful if the DAP is in the middle of playback Hi-Res file.

Alternatively, when you try to manipulate the DAP during playback, the UI control will also take up small amount of CPU resource, this is normal and should freeze the DAP. However, if the DAP fail to response promptly, user might "suspect" that the touchscreen (or button) control is not registered correctly, and if they click the touch screen repeatedly at this time, the multiple touch screen action will create a peak load to the CPU and freeze the DAP.

I merely provide two examples for discussion purpose, and these examples also explains why we have very different opinion on the reliability of N5ii, some user said the N5ii keep crashing, but others consider N5ii as fairly reliable after the latest firmware update.

There can be other possibilities that cause the DAP to freeze, and we are not going to slow down our optimization process because we can explain the problem.

Hi there. Thanks for this explanation. However, I am finding the DAP freezes temporarily when just playing a track from an SD card to headphones and not (to my knowledge) performing any other processes. This is with NO 3rd party apps activated. Wi Fi OFF / Blue tooth OFF and just letting the track play and not touching the screen / scrolling or any other activity/intervention whatsoever as a user. I can certainly sympathise with, and back up, the experiences of those users who find that playback is not as reliable as it should be - and this for me is something that most definitely needs proactive fixing/improvement via FW . I also found that on the 2nd N5ii unit I tried issues regarding slow - unreliable scanning of various SD cards were the same as the 1st I tried - and this is regardless of whether FW 2.1en or 3.1en was used.

In my case it just freezes randomly during playback. In most cases I had been playing for at least 20 mins plus before the music just suddenly stops. I didn't even perform any action.

Now after I periodically perform smart cleaning I have not encountered a freeze. I do notice that on the first smart cleaning right after I boot up the player it will show about 9-12 applications have been terminated (in pure music mode) while subsequent cleanings typically show 2.

Coming out of android mode and doing smart cleaning usually kills 7 applications.

I downloaded and ran advanced task killer before and apparently its caused by android services running in the background.

Hopefully this could help pinpoint how else to further optimise the N5ii firmware.

 

[Andykong]

I think it is explained in one of my favourite and your most detailed informative answer about digital connection types supported for N5ii on page 26. I have quoted only a small part of it..

In addition to that, as far as I know, management of the clocking is done by the external Dac if asynchronous usb protocol is used. Whereas, on SPDIF , the source manages this. If your external DAC is better than your source, asynchronous usb is preferred with a good usb cable which also cause less jitter(the difference may change and most of the time vey low or nearly zero in high quality Dacs) in comparison to digital coax connection.

As a result, I look forward to trying the following releases which will probably solve usb issues.

Yes, USB Audio offers higher bandwidth, hence better digital capability, but that is different from saying coaxial cannot playback DSD files. In fact, 99% of current DSD files are DSD64, only a very small percentage of DSD files are DSD128 and DSD256, so Coaxial output can support a very large proportion of DSD files already. By the time DSD128 become popular, I am sure we'll rectify the USB Audio Problem of N5ii, or we probably will be using N5iii or N5iv by that time.

I think your have confused the clock synchronization of S/PDIF. The clock of Transport (N5ii in this case) and DAC are independent. The Transport will not manage the clock of the DAC, this can only be done when certain Transport and DAC are connect with a special clock link feature that is very rare and only exist in very high end audio equipment. I2S will allow similar clock synchronization function but that is not S/PDIF domain.

Last but not least, the better digital specification of USB Audio does not guarantee better sound performance, in fact, I personally prefer coaxial input of Mojo and Hugo over USB input. I am not familiar with Hugo2 so I can't comment on that. In fact, most DAC using standard off-the-shelf USB receiver solution tends to sound clean and high resolution but less emotional when compare to the coaxial output, and because I prefer slightly warm and full music presentation, so coaxial tends to fit my taste better, but this is personal preference and everyone need to make up their own decision regarding the different digital input of their DAC device.

 

[CongoFather]

There is a good article giving great details(the measurement results of the Jitter) about S/PDIF vs USB by using different types of DACs at https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/battle-of-s-pdif-vs-usb-which-is-better.1943/

In the first part of this article, it says that "I think most of you know my opinion on this. But just in case, I believe USB to be a superior and more "correct" interface for audio. Problem with S/PDIF is that it makes the source the "master," forcing the DAC to chase its timing. This means that if the source S/PDIF signal is not very clean, it can impact target DAC performance. "

In the following parts of the article, it compares and shows the jitter output of S/PDIF(Sony/Philips Digital Interface) and USB in graph with different DAC models. At the end of the article, it states in the conclusion that "there was no case where USB was worst than S/PDIF. Indeed the reverse was true in that S/PDIF was noisier in some DACs."

Although it is a personal preference as you have told, I'd rather continue using USB output than the S/PDIF with audiophile quality USB cables in my home stereo and portable/mobile setup.
Thanks again for your detailed answers anyway.

Yes, USB Audio offers higher bandwidth, hence better digital capability, but that is different from saying coaxial cannot playback DSD files. In fact, 99% of current DSD files are DSD64, only a very small percentage of DSD files are DSD128 and DSD256, so Coaxial output can support a very large proportion of DSD files already. By the time DSD128 become popular, I am sure we'll rectify the USB Audio Problem of N5ii, or we probably will be using N5iii or N5iv by that time.

I think your have confused the clock synchronization of S/PDIF. The clock of Transport (N5ii in this case) and DAC are independent. The Transport will not manage the clock of the DAC, this can only be done when certain Transport and DAC are connect with a special clock link feature that is very rare and only exist in very high end audio equipment. I2S will allow similar clock synchronization function but that is not S/PDIF domain.

Last but not least, the better digital specification of USB Audio does not guarantee better sound performance, in fact, I personally prefer coaxial input of Mojo and Hugo over USB input. I am not familiar with Hugo2 so I can't comment on that. In fact, most DAC using standard off-the-shelf USB receiver solution tends to sound clean and high resolution but less emotional when compare to the coaxial output, and because I prefer slightly warm and full music presentation, so coaxial tends to fit my taste better, but this is personal preference and everyone need to make up their own decision regarding the different digital input of their DAC device.

 

[majo123]

Last but not least, the better digital specification of USB Audio does not guarantee better sound performance, in fact, I personally prefer coaxial input of Mojo and Hugo over USB input.

I agree with this , I prefer coax and optical on the mojo to usb but as you say it is a preference.

 

[zabada]

Hi Andy, can I ask for possibility to set manually Remote Control 'On' and 'Off' on the new firmware? I have some earphones with remote on cable, and they don't play properly. But it's play very well with disabled remote control on another DAP. Thank you in advance!

 

[PopZeus]

Btw, the custom case that is made to order on eBay is very good. It’s thick, so access to the power button is a bit obstructed. Also, I’m hopeful the tight fit won’t warp the aluminum body. I mean, it’s space metal, right!?? Plus side is it feels well-protected.

 

[vrapan]

is there anyway to force OTA to 3.x ? I am stuck with 2.1 and the device will not attempt an OTA upgrade at all. I know I can do the whole thing with a piece of cable but I am lazy like that.

 

[lengyeljani]

Going through the audio options I didn't find any replay gain option. Did I just missed it or isn't replay gain available? (yet?)
I really need it for a couple of my albums so it isn't that dramatic.

 

[RASeymour]

Resume play after shutdown. Wrote about this earlier but still having problems. When I shut down the player, it sometimes comes back to my last song, and sometimes it goes back to a song I was playing days ago. Shutdown by manually powering off. No apparent pattern to when it correctly resumes and when it does not. My last song played is listed in the window showing recent songs played, so the player does recognize the song and it apparently is not "lost." On my FiiO players, resume just wasn't an issue at all.

A second issue, of sorts, has come up. When it does power up, the song play for just a second and then pauses. I'm not sure if this is a bug or a feature. The blip of the song let's me know it has completed powering up and is ready to play. However, there are times where pulling the player out of my pocket and needing to hit play is a PIA. Again, with the FiiO, it just started playing, for better or worse.

Are these issues others are experiencing? Addressed in a future firmware upgrade?

 

[seanwee]

Resume play after shutdown. Wrote about this earlier but still having problems. When I shut down the player, it sometimes comes back to my last song, and sometimes it goes back to a song I was playing days ago. Shutdown by manually powering off. No apparent pattern to when it correctly resumes and when it does not. My last song played is listed in the window showing recent songs played, so the player does recognize the song and it apparently is not "lost." On my FiiO players, resume just wasn't an issue at all.

A second issue, of sorts, has come up. When it does power up, the song play for just a second and then pauses. I'm not sure if this is a bug or a feature. The blip of the song let's me know it has completed powering up and is ready to play. However, there are times where pulling the player out of my pocket and needing to hit play is a PIA. Again, with the FiiO, it just started playing, for better or worse.

Are these issues others are experiencing? Addressed in a future firmware upgrade?

Have you tried clearing cache?

Power down, then power up while holding the volume up button until the recovery screen appears. Clear cache then reboot.

 

[HombreCangrejo]

@Andykong, @CayinSupport, I bring here to your attention one occurrence of the 100% volume problem that I suffered this evening. It is in no way related to the screen volume control.

It happened suddenly when I was listening a song in flac format (Fried Out Broken Girl, from the 20th Anniversay Reissue of "It's Heavy In Here", from Eric Matthews, just in case you want to know) through foobar2000. At that moment, the player was in the bag, with the screen off. I can pass the file where it happened, but I don't think the problem is file related. Probably the bug appears when an external Android player is using resources from the DAP, but it's really terrible. First thing I though was that a bomb was exploding in the subway. I have been using players (either memory/card based or MP3 Discman) for more than 15 years, and I have never experienced something similar. Please, do your best effort to solve this completely, because this is the kind of problem that could turn a great user experience into a really terrible one.

 

[seanwee]

@Andykong, @CayinSupport, I bring here to your attention one occurrence of the 100% volume problem that I suffered this evening. It is in no way related to the screen volume control.

It happened suddenly when I was listening a song in flac format (Fried Out Broken Girl, from the 20th Anniversay Reissue of "It's Heavy In Here", from Eric Matthews, just in case you want to know) through foobar2000. At that moment, the player was in the bag, with the screen off. I can pass the file where it happened, but I don't think the problem is file related. Probably the bug appears when an external Android player is using resources from the DAP, but it's really terrible. First thing I though was that a bomb was exploding in the subway. I have been using players (either memory/card based or MP3 Discman) for more than 15 years, and I have never experienced something similar. Please, do your best effort to solve this completely, because this is the kind of problem that could turn a great user experience into a really terrible one.

Version 2.1 or 3.1? Its supposed to be rectified (mostly) on v3.1

 

[CayinSupport]

@Andykong, @CayinSupport, I bring here to your attention one occurrence of the 100% volume problem that I suffered this evening. It is in no way related to the screen volume control.

It happened suddenly when I was listening a song in flac format (Fried Out Broken Girl, from the 20th Anniversay Reissue of "It's Heavy In Here", from Eric Matthews, just in case you want to know) through foobar2000. At that moment, the player was in the bag, with the screen off. I can pass the file where it happened, but I don't think the problem is file related. Probably the bug appears when an external Android player is using resources from the DAP, but it's really terrible. First thing I though was that a bomb was exploding in the subway. I have been using players (either memory/card based or MP3 Discman) for more than 15 years, and I have never experienced something similar. Please, do your best effort to solve this completely, because this is the kind of problem that could turn a great user experience into a really terrible one.

As @seanwee referred, 3.1EN firmware can partially rectify (significantly reduced the frequency) the bug that pop up volume control interface randomly. If your firmware is still 2.1EN, please check out this link and update your firmware:https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...tal-audio-player.862763/page-86#post-14028429

 

[CayinSupport]

is there anyway to force OTA to 3.x ? I am stuck with 2.1 and the device will not attempt an OTA upgrade at all. I know I can do the whole thing with a piece of cable but I am lazy like that.

Hi, you can check "option 2 OTA Upgrade Procedure" in this link and complete your process: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...tal-audio-player.862763/page-86#post-14028429