[seanwee]

Well, when I had X5III I thought it was buggy, but it could at least play back smoothly. N5II fails big time in that. N5II picture, actually, could be put into an encyclopedia next to an article defining Buggy Device If you want interruption-free payback you should do several wipes, turn off everything, turn on audio priority and on you go. But if I want streaming and scrobbling I have to pay for this comfort with the discomfort of jerky playback.

Not for everyone, some have very well performing ones while some have poor performing ones.

 

[Reverber]

N5II picture, actually, could be put into an encyclopedia next to an article defining Buggy Device

Oh, same tune again
No any bugs for me. Provide definitive list, please (encyclopedia likes details)

 

[Gayron]

Provide definitive list, please (encyclopedia likes details)

Same bugs same tunes Here it is (ranged by the amount of pain from min to max):
1) UI freezes
2) Weak WiFi
3) Out of sync with video on YouTube in DAC mode (to solve that have to open videos via standalone player with a sych setting changed)
4) Skips milliseconds in DAC mode (noticeable) (always in the beginning of the first played song, and sometimes during playback)
5) No sound in DAC mode (reboot needed)
6) Increased volume after an interruption (encountered three times)
7) Static noise in DAC mode (not always and randomly appearing)
8) Interrupted playback from SD card in 3-rd party players and in internal player (very often)
9) Interrupted playback from Internal Memory in 3-rd party players and in internal player (often)
10) Interrupted playback from SD card/internal memory in Audio Priority Mode in 3-rd party players and in internal player
11) Interrupted sound in DAC mode (rare, but very painful)
12) Manufacturer failed proper testing of the device before sales.

8 to 12 are about the same pain level

 

[Reverber]

1) No any freezes or delays for me
2) No such symptoms
3) I do not think that this hi-res player for youtube videos at all
4) Not sure
5) No it works perfect
6) No
7) Not sure
8) Why I should use 3rd party players at all ?
9) The same
10 The same
11) No
12) I do not think so Tell that to Microsoft or Apple or Samsung or anybody else

No pain for me at all

 

[Gayron]

3) I do not think that this hi-res player for youtube videos at all

I listen a lot in dac mode, and sometimes I watch YouTube (some videos have decent SQ) when on computer.

8) Why I should use 3rd party players at all ?

I use Google music to download albums through my subscription. And I also use PowerAmp because of it's more convenient UI.

 

[Andykong]

Same bugs same tunes Here it is (ranged by the amount of pain from min to max):
1) UI freezes
2) Weak WiFi
3) Out of sync with video on YouTube in DAC mode (to solve that have to open videos via standalone player with a sych setting changed)
4) Skips milliseconds in DAC mode (noticeable) (always in the beginning of the first played song, and sometimes during playback)
5) No sound in DAC mode (reboot needed)
6) Increased volume after an interruption (encountered three times)
7) Static noise in DAC mode (not always and randomly appearing)
8) Interrupted playback from SD card in 3-rd party players and in internal player (very often)
9) Interrupted playback from Internal Memory in 3-rd party players and in internal player (often)
10) Interrupted playback from SD card/internal memory in Audio Priority Mode in 3-rd party players and in internal player
11) Interrupted sound in DAC mode (rare, but very painful)
12) Manufacturer failed proper testing of the device before sales.

8 to 12 are about the same pain level

Please accept our apology for all the inconvenient caused, we hope Cayin will be able to serve you better in the future. We'll review you list again to make sure we won't miss anything.

The list combines a lot of issues and some of them are actually constraints instead of bugs. For example, item 3 will never get solved completely as long as we stay in Asynchronous USB Audio, and we WILL stay in Asynchronous USB Audio in foreseeable future, when there is a compromise to make, audio performance always has higher priority. This is the rooted into our objective and branding, We can improve the buffering architecture in future product but the common approach to solve this problem in Audio-visual or Home Theater application is to add an user-controlled delay in the video path.

PS: Cayin did perform extensive test with our products before we roll out and we have recruited independent beta users to help us out. Unfortunately some of the bugs requires a larger scale of user participation before we can spotted them out. The random pause bug is one of the example of that. We have encounter this bug during our testing and we have identified a pattern that caused the pause, we rectified it in V1.2 firmware which was issued 2-3 weeks after the N5ii is available in international market. We didn't run into random pause again after v1.2 because our test were performed with new units out of N5ii, and from what i observed, the percentage of random pause bug is not as significantly during the first 2-3 charging cycle of new N5ii.

 

[Andykong]

1) No any freezes or delays for me
2) No such symptoms
3) I do not think that this hi-res player for youtube videos at all
4) Not sure
5) No it works perfect
6) No
7) Not sure
8) Why I should use 3rd party players at all ?
9) The same
10 The same
11) No
12) I do not think so Tell that to Microsoft or Apple or Samsung or anybody else

No pain for me at all

Thank you for your support to N5ii, Cayin acknowledges some of the issues reported from our online user community, we are working to rectify the bugs and improve our products at the same time. The random pausing bug is happened in a really randomized pattern, we still couldn't identify a specific operation step that is 100% repeatable in a brand new N5ii units. We are confident that we can solve the bug once we identified the source. This has been the most mysterious bug we have encountered ever since we started our Personal Audio venture. We don't see the need to hide the bugs from the public even when the bugs are affecting a small group bug significant group of users, especially when we can collect more information regarding the operation steps and state of DAP when we the bug occurred.

I'll hope you'll enjoy your N5ii for a long time, our product life cycle is slightly longer then the market norm, so there is a long way before a N5ii successor will surface, please come back to share your positive experience, mix and match impression with different headphones, and tracks that touch your heart. Afterall, this is a user sharing thread about N5ii, so the biggest contribution to this thread is indeed sharing your personal experience with N5ii, I am looking forwards to your sharing and feedback.

 

[Andykong]

Tried out the Sony NW-WM1A. Can't say it is an upgrade. Just different tonality from the N5ii.

The N5ii more neutral sounding, the 1A has a boosted mid bass and boosted lower treble, v-ish-shaped. This led to some very interesting comparisons.

In less complex or bassy songs, the 1A sounds better than the N5ii. It sounds more articulate and sparkly. Soundstage is noticeably deeper though a bit less wide. The 1A has a thicker sound than the N5ii but it's more detailed too.

However, on more complex songs, the 1A gets congested quickly, everything is too in your face and the soundstage shrinks. Instrument separation falls waaay behind the N5ii now, some instruments are too mixed up. Instruments lose their airs and just blunder into one another. The mids stay clear but the other instruments are all mixed up. The thicker sound gets in the way. On bass heavier songs, the enhanced mid bass can really muddy up the sound and make things less clear.

Personally I listen to a lot of complicated movie soundtracks so the N5ii still fits my taste better.

The Sony is significantly bulkier than the N5ii. UI navigation is also slower on the Sony. It takes a second to load the folders and files in folder browser mode.

Thank you very much for your sharing, I am sure user impression in all forms are the main reason why we have HeadFi forum to start with. I sincerely hope we can have more sharing and discussion like this in N5ii thread. In fact, I choose to respond to technical support issues at a different thread and didn't copy the content over here for one reason only: we must encourage user sharing and do not bury the passion of our hobby with technical support service. We have sold several thousands units of N5ii already, our rough estimation is around 10% of the users are seriously bothered by the random freeze bug, which is surprisingly high and consider unacceptable.

I have tried the WM1A and if I might chim in, I would say the N5ii has its edge over the WM1A on 3.5mm headphone output, but the balanced output of WM1A is indeed superior. I tried Z1R with 2.5mm and 4.4mm briefly, though not in a direct AB comparison but with the same songs list, but as you said, choice of music are indeed an important factor, only a small percentage of my day-to-day library are classical or complicated music pieces, vocal, pops, countries, acoustic instruments composed 90% of my listening hours and from this, I put 4.4mm phone out of WM1A over 2.5mm output of N5ii.

 

[seanwee]

Thank you very much for your sharing, I am sure user impression in all forms are the main reason why we have HeadFi forum to start with. I sincerely hope we can have more sharing and discussion like this in N5ii thread. In fact, I choose to respond to technical support issues at a different thread and didn't copy the content over here for one reason only: we must encourage user sharing and do not bury the passion of our hobby with technical support service. We have sold several thousands units of N5ii already, our rough estimation is around 10% of the users are seriously bothered by the random freeze bug, which is surprisingly high and consider unacceptable.

I have tried the WM1A and if I might chim in, I would say the N5ii has its edge over the WM1A on 3.5mm headphone output, but the balanced output of WM1A is indeed superior. I tried Z1R with 2.5mm and 4.4mm briefly, though not in a direct AB comparison but with the same songs list, but as you said, choice of music are indeed an important factor, only a small percentage of my day-to-day library are classical or complicated music pieces, vocal, pops, countries, acoustic instruments composed 90% of my listening hours and from this, I put 4.4mm phone out of WM1A over 2.5mm output of N5ii.

I did try out the 4.4mm output of the WM1A but it was via 4.4 BAL out to 3.5mm se out adapter. I don't have any balanced IEM's so I can't say for sure.

Using the balanced out, I did hear some subtle differences, soundstage width was better on congested tracks and as a result the instrument separation was a touch better. Bass is still boosted and will still muddy up some bassier songs.

Do take note this was without volume matching and A/B-ing. That's why I didn't share my impressions on the balanced out initially, the comparison may not be very reliable.

I have a selection of songs that easily reveal specific aspects of sound. Some are for testing micro detail, some for sibilance, some for soundstage and so on. I try to cover as many aspects as possible so its more compatible with most people.

 

[ngs428]

One question I did have before I bought this DAP was if the Plex app could be installed and would work. I am happy to report that it does in fact install and it works well.

Hopefully others will find this thread if they are looking an answer.

Loving my N5ii so far. Thanks!

 

[Gayron]

item 3 will never get solved completely as long as we stay in Asynchronous USB Audio

Cayin did perform extensive test with our products before we roll out and we have recruited independent beta users to help us out. Unfortunately some of the bugs requires a larger scale of user participation before we can spotted them out. The random pause bug is one of the example of that. We have encounter this bug during our testing and we have identified a pattern that caused the pause, we rectified it in V1.2 firmware which was issued 2-3 weeks after the N5ii is available in international market. We didn't run into random pause again after v1.2 because our test were performed with new units out of N5ii, and from what i observed, the percentage of random pause bug is not as significantly during the first 2-3 charging cycle of new N5ii.

Hi Andy, thank you for your explanation. Yes I shouldn't have mentioned out of sync video in DAC mode, I know it's due to how your hardware is implemented, and it's fine with me basically. Regarding the testing I still believe that your unit should be playback interruption free before the release, I don't mind other UI related issues, but playback is the most crucial. Now, I realize Cayin is working hard on fixing named playback related bugs, but who knows how long it's gonna take to fix them all, something is telling me it might be a matter of a few more updates which will spread for a good while, and I don't want to wait and hope all this time, I just want to enjoy my music nuisance free. I'm sure many other users would support such attitude. Right now, as far as I'm concerned, the N5II is defected and there is no guarantee it can be fixed. Or is there? If so, when approximately can we expect that? Thank you.

 

[majo123]

I don't own this dap and have already commented on I'm waiting for cayin to iron out a few wrinkles before possible purchase , I sought of agree with gayrons previous post about playback freezes and for me also it is not an acceptable bug, I also would find this very frustrating. That said I do understand that not all bugs are picked up on in initial testing and need a longer wider usage to develop and show,
hence firmware updates on most electronic devices nowadays.
What I like about cayin and Andy in general is they are communicating about all this and clearly are on it which is more and above than some. Let's hope it gets a bit more stable in the next update.

 

[seanwee]

I don't own this dap and have already commented on I'm waiting for cayin to iron out a few wrinkles before possible purchase , I sought of agree with gayrons previous post about playback freezes and for me also it is not an acceptable bug, I also would find this very frustrating. That said I do understand that not all bugs are picked up on in initial testing and need a longer wider usage to develop and show,
hence firmware updates on most electronic devices nowadays.
What I like about cayin and Andy in general is they are communicating about all this and clearly are on it which is more and above than some. Let's hope it gets a bit more stable in the next update.

Andy said only about 10% have issues, want to try out your luck?

 

[majo123]

Andy said only about 10% have issues, want to try put your luck?

lol I will be buying buddy.... but I'm gonna wait til probably next update see what turns up.

 

[seanwee]

lol I will be buying buddy.... but I'm gonna wait til probably next update see what turns up.

Id be waiting for a later batch unit rather than firmware. Seems like newer N5iis work better.