[seanwee]

I would like to have a comparison to the FiiO X5 (3rd Generation). On the data sheet, they seems to be pretty similar.

I mostly listening to metal and ambient music and like a focus on bass and mids with a warm, musical, lively sound.

I like details but not being too analytical, wide and open.

Do you think that the N3Pro would be an upgrade for me soundwise?

Doesn't seem like you're looking for a dap upgrade imo. The N3 Pro is better in all aspects you mentioned while being less warm.

Perhaps an iem upgrade would be a more suitable choice.

 

[darkarth]

Maybe I just used the wrong term. I'm not that versed in "audiophilia communication" and your description sounds kinda conflicting to me. But that's just me I guess.

I don't use IEMs. I'm only using Over Ears. And I have different ones with different profiles. So I don't think that this is gonna be a thing here.

However, I ordered it now. I'm curios to here the differences since I read a "favorite dap" list from someone who mainly listen to metal.

 

[darkarth]

By the way: Are there any other DAPs with tubes?

So far I've heard from Cayin N8, N3pro and some iBassos with AMP9.

 

[monsieurfromag3]

By the way: Are there any other DAPs with tubes?

So far I've heard from Cayin N8, N3pro and some iBassos with AMP9.

None other that I’m aware of, and the N3Pro is the only one with actual, way-back tubes, from Raytheon no less; all of the others use Korg Nutube, which is an exciting modern development of audio tube tech.

iBasso has already announced the Dx300’s format would preclude the inclusion of tubes for later modules, and A&K’s SE180 has other modules down the line but the modules themselves look pretty small, I don’t think they’ll accomodate tubes.

 

[seanwee]

By the way: Are there any other DAPs with tubes?

So far I've heard from Cayin N8, N3pro and some iBassos with AMP9.

None other that I’m aware of, and the N3Pro is the only one with actual, way-back tubes, from Raytheon no less; all of the others use Korg Nutube, which is an exciting modern development of audio tube tech.

iBasso has already announced the Dx300’s format would preclude the inclusion of tubes for later modules, and A&K’s SE180 has other modules down the line but the modules themselves look pretty small, I don’t think they’ll accomodate tubes.

Nutubes are the superior choice by far on mobile devices since you can't use the better sounding desktop tubes due to their power consumption and size.

The SQ of the tube modes in the N3 Pro are a far cry from the SQ of the DX220 AMP9 and N8. They are a must try if you get the chance.

 

[darkarth]

Nutubes are the superior choice by far on mobile devices since you can't use the better sounding desktop tubes due to their power consumption and size.

The SQ of the tube modes in the N3 Pro are a far cry from the SQ of the DX220 AMP9 and N8. They are a must try if you get the chance.

I would give them a chance but prize and size of the N8 and iBassos are a nogo for me unfortuneatly. I read from the cayin support that the price of the nutubes are a reason why they choose the raytheon tubes for the N3Pro. So maybe there will be something that fits my conditions better in the future.

Actually the N3 Pro is already to expensive. But I got the chance to buy it for 66% of the actual price including the leather case that you normaly have to buy seperatly. So a pretty good deal, I guess.

 

[seanwee]

I would give them a chance but prize and size of the N8 and iBassos are a nogo for me unfortuneatly. I read from the cayin support that the price of the nutubes are a reason why they choose the raytheon tubes for the N3Pro. So maybe there will be something that fits my conditions better in the future.

Actually the N3 Pro is already to expensive. But I got the chance to buy it for 66% of the actual price including the leather case that you normaly have to buy seperatly. So a pretty good deal, I guess.

Nutubes are 100 dollars apiece excluding bulk sale discounts so thats untrue. I believe its due to the cost of implementing the tubes that drives the cost up. But then again Ibasso's AMP 9 only costs $249 so probably theres some product segmentation going on.

That and high end daps like the N8 are high margin low volume products which also drives the price up. Hopefully the R&D tickles down into a more reasonably priced dap in the future. An N5 Pro with Nutubes at the 700-800 dollar price range would be killer.

 

[darkarth]

An N5 Pro with Nutubes at the 700-800 dollar price range would be killer.

Definitly looking forward to that. But the question is: How big is the market demand? In my country literally no one cares because no one knows what's that all about. That includes a big part of the High Res DAP Community. I'm even not sure if they are even avalaible here (aside from a few very small online hifi shops). I also found them first a few days ago. And that applies for many DAP Brands. All of this falls back to the weak marketing.

I guess that is the reason why iBasso decided to preclude Tubes in their future mobile AMPs and why Acoustic Research stopped their DAP developements ( I don't know it for sure, but it feels like). It's to expensive to keep this train because there is to less demand. And they don't want or don't understand that they have to invest more into marketing to create more demand.

And because of that I wonder how long Cayin will keep their tube players. I doubt that it's working out financial-wise on the long run, the way how it is right now. So I don't hang my hopes too high.

 

[seanwee]

Definitly looking forward to that. But the question is: How big is the market demand? In my country literally no one cares because no one knows what's that all about. That includes a big part of the High Res DAP Community. I'm even not sure if they are even avalaible here (aside from a few very small online hifi shops). I also found them first a few days ago. And that applies for many DAP Brands. All of this falls back to the weak marketing.

I guess that is the reason why iBasso decided to preclude Tubes in their future mobile AMPs and why Acoustic Research stopped their DAP developements ( I don't know it for sure, but it feels like). It's to expensive to keep this train because there is to less demand. And they don't want or don't understand that they have to invest more into marketing to create more demand.

And because of that I wonder how long Cayin will keep their tube players. I doubt that it's working out financial-wise on the long run, the way how it is right now.

I believe Cayin will push forward with the tube design. They are after all well known for their desktop tube amps.

 

[Andykong]

Definitly looking forward to that. But the question is: How big is the market demand? In my country literally no one cares because no one knows what's that all about. That includes a big part of the High Res DAP Community. I'm even not sure if they are even avalaible here (aside from a few very small online hifi shops). I also found them first a few days ago. And that applies for many DAP Brands. All of this falls back to the weak marketing.

I guess that is the reason why iBasso decided to preclude Tubes in their future mobile AMPs and why Acoustic Research stopped their DAP developements ( I don't know it for sure, but it feels like). It's to expensive to keep this train because there is to less demand. And they don't want or don't understand that they have to invest more into marketing to create more demand.

And because of that I wonder how long Cayin will keep their tube players. I doubt that it's working out financial-wise on the long run, the way how it is right now. So I don't hang my hopes too high.

... and (maybe that's) why Sony didn't revisit the audiophile DAP market after wm1z, .... the list can goes on forever.

The trick is to aim small and remain small. Admit this is a niche market and we can't afford the cost to reach out. Unquantifiable advantages are not meant for the mass market, not for today or foreseeable future IMHO. Work smart and plan smart, be realistic, and don't daydream. That's why we didn't force ourselves to develop a tube Audio Motherboard for N6ii, or produce a N5Pro with Nutube at $700. Given the current stressful manufacturing environment and global shortage (and price raise) in electronic components, a silly mistake can cause damage that can cost us an arm and a leg.

 

[Zambu]

There's certainly a market for tube DAPs. Not every customer needs and wants to know the technology, it can well be enough that it fulfills the use case and has exciting reviews. Like with N3Pro, it's enough to know that it sounds great and you can press a button to change the sound a bit.
And it seems warmer sound signatures are getting good feedback (Shanling M8 and I think the Ibasso DX300 is towards the warmer side by default as well).

 

[darkarth]

... and (maybe that's) why Sony didn't revisit the audiophile DAP market after wm1z, .... the list can goes on forever.

The trick is to aim small and remain small. Admit this is a niche market and we can't afford the cost to reach out. Unquantifiable advantages are not meant for the mass market, not for today or foreseeable future IMHO. Work smart and plan smart, be realistic, and don't daydream. That's why we didn't force ourselves to develop a tube Audio Motherboard for N6ii, or produce a N5Pro with Nutube at $700. Given the current stressful manufacturing environment and global shortage (and price raise) in electronic components, a silly mistake can cause damage that can cost us an arm and a leg.

The list can go forever if you overlook the frame conditions. Sony is a big worldwide concern that have a high reputation in nearly every technology market. They can handle abortive products without any problems and the walkmans - as popular as they are - are just a little pillar. The WM1Z is not audiophile only. It's a prestige product that is supposed to be an exception. And they released the zx500 as well in 2019. So I think they are still in the audiophile DAP market.

However, I am aware of your frame conditions to serve a niche market here. And I didn't talk about the mass market. More about the european audiophile market. But of course I don't know your sales. I only read about your developement and investments in your tube players and recognized that, exaggerated expressed, literally no one in europe is interested or even know about your players. So I wonder where this is going in the future because it feels kind of unbalanced. Probably Asia and US are bigger markets and maybe that's why europe is not that important at the time and I only have a wrong impression.

Please don't get me wrong. I don't trieng to teach you something like some user did, in another cayin player thread. I'm just worried to lose a player brand again that satisfy my desires for mobile players with analogue-wise sound technologies - after losing Acoustic Research. And probably will loosing iBasso's AMP9 mobile amplifier. And I see the big role of marketing here, when I compare this to FiiO for example that started from nothing. Especially because of the current globale storage situation. But I know that every company has to check their options to fullfil their vision. So no hard feelings.

I really appreciate all your work here and I'm excited that I found your products a few days ago. And I'm pretty happy that the N3Pro don't have a Android-System and W-LAN. I like products pretty much that are reduced to their core functions. Also hope you keep finding ways to develope more tube players with smaller sizes in the future.

 

[monsieurfromag3]

Nutubes are the superior choice by far on mobile devices since you can't use the better sounding desktop tubes due to their power consumption and size.

The SQ of the tube modes in the N3 Pro are a far cry from the SQ of the DX220 AMP9 and N8. They are a must try if you get the chance.

I did try the N8. I found it amazing, but I wouldn’t call it a far cry from the N3Pro to be honest, from memory. In fact I wouldn’t have settled for the N3Pro if I had felt it lacking, it matches my taste in a way I haven’t encountered much even in much more expensive sources. It’s less technically refined, sure.

 

[DeCadanz]

4. Other Bug fix and optimization.

Fine with scrolling, but i have this bug from 2.1: list album images loads only visible (for 5 tracks), but when scroll, last images not loaded (see photo).
I was try to rescan media, it's not solve this problem.

 

[Leonardo_BVB]

Fine with scrolling, but i have this bug from 2.1: list album images loads only visible (for 5 tracks), but when scroll, last images not loaded (see photo).
I was try to rescan media, it's not solve this problem.

Same here. It also happens when you have several albums from the same artist