[aaf evo]

+1 and I come back to my question of if there is a new parameter that fix the hiss problem, shouldn’t it be applied to all units in the long run to avoid problems in the future when warranty is expired or other conditions??

+1 too regarding this. My unit are working fine for now, but I don't know what will happen later with when I bought new IEM and cables.

Indeed. While it is definitely more important for those who have issues ongoing to get working units, I’d at least like some acknowledgement that they’re even considering some possible “plan” for those of us who can’t prove ours are faulty units should this issue arise down the road.

This is definitely the worst product release I’ve seen since I’ve been in the hobby as far as QC goes, and if this DAP didn’t sound so damn good I can imagine this would have gotten really ugly really fast. But again, the patience I’ve seen shown here clearly proves that all of us just want a working unit because of what it offers or some idea on how it’ll be handled if it’s an issue in the future.

 

[davidmolliere]

+1 and I come back to my question of if there is a new parameter that fix the hiss problem, shouldn’t it be applied to all units in the long run to avoid problems in the future when warranty is expired or other conditions??

Especially if this happens with some cables and not others, let's say you upgrade along the way it could become a delayed issue indeed.t
Hope PW Orpheus is allright (I'll know today) but I think others have run it with N30 and no issue...

 

[Allears79]

Especially if this happens with some cables and not others, let's say you upgrade along the way it could become a delayed issue indeed.t
Hope PW Orpheus is allright (I'll know today) but I think others have run it with N30 and no issue...

I can confirm the Orpheus works just fine as I am using mine with the N30 for more than 30hs…

 

[aaf evo]

I can confirm the Orpheus works just fine as I am using mine with the N30 for more than 30hs…

It doesn’t seem cable specific though. Some people are having hiss with their Amber Pearl IEMs and some not.

 

[aaf evo]

Also regarding the Storm bass, it has the best BA bass I’ve ever heard but whether or not it’ll replace a TOTL DD bass response for you is something you’d have to decide.

 

[Torq]

I’d at least like some acknowledgement that they’re even considering some possible “plan” for those of us who can’t prove ours are faulty units should this issue arise down the road.

Especially if this happens with some cables and not others, let's say you upgrade along the way it could become a delayed issue indeed.

Since the occurrence of the issue can be down to just a cable change, which would represent an absolutely tiny shift in impedance and/or capacitance, I would expect that even different copies of the same stock IEM (or its cable) would be enough to fall either side of the problematic range for any given N30LE unit.

That's due simply to the tolerances involved in the materials, components and even the assembly (solder joints can vary in impedance more than you'd expect).

The reality of that is that while some (maybe most) units may be far enough over to the "good" side of the cumulative tolerances that they never show this issue with any IEM, headphone or cable, some will be a lot closer to the other extreme ... and there different copies of the same thing may behave differently. And since you can't know in advance which units, pairings or copies are going to act up, you're really forced into a blanket fix.

That could take a couple of forms:

1. A "recall", in which all units are adjusted to a "more conservative" set of bias values, such that cumulative tolerance differences in the unit, and its load, will still fall within the correct range.
2. An open offer to fix any units that appear good today, but expose the issue at some later point with a new IEM or other pairing.

And while I suspect that there aren't that many people buying $5,000+ DAPs that aren't active on audio forums, you have to assume that someone, somewhere, will be 100% unaware of this issue ... until it bites them. So you probably have to provision for both the above scenarios to be fully covered. The devil, then, is in the details.

 

[zoidbb]

(solder joints can vary in impedance more than you'd expect)

Bah, who even solders anymore. I weld my cables. >.>

 

[Torq]

Bah, who even solders anymore. I weld my cables. >.>

I've done some stuff with cold welding, which has been interesting ... in theory it's a purer approach than soldering. Soldering is much easier.

---

I do a fair amount of very-small-signal, high-speed, long-range radio work (long story; it's not my day job ... nor was it before I retired). The tolerance issues and limits on some of that stuff is mind-boggling. To the point where variances in trace-width on the board, or how precisely a component was placed by the SMT PnP, oxidization on the SMT component's "leads", or even normal fluctuations in the thermal profile for the reflow soldering step can turn a SOTA/bleeding-edge design can result in one board having issues while another is fine.

Now, a lot of that stuff is R&D and prototyping ... pushing the limits to see what is possible. For an actual product, you'd have to back well away from the edges/limits to have any chance of the thing working in the real world. But some of that stuff is one off, or runs of half a dozen units for a special purpose or project, for lab/experimentation and research purposes ... and it can be super-fiddly to resolve issues when the first board you build works, and the next 4, which seem identical, are unstable, don't work at all, give spurious signals etc ... and you change NOTHING, build board 6, and that one works fine ...

 

[Andykong]

Will you have any information for those of us that currently do not have any issues with hissing/noise but have concerns at the possibility of encountering this issue down the road?

Sorry, missed your question while I was looking for the 300ohm adapter.

Yes, we have touched base on this subject, but we need some time to gather and evaluate various options, and some of the options will involve the collaboration of dealers.

We need some time before we can finalize our remedial plan. Maybe by the end of this month?

 

[aaf evo]

Sorry, missed your question while I was looking for the 300ohm adapter.

Yes, we have touched base on this subject, but we need some time to gather and evaluate various options, and some of the options will involve the collaboration of dealers.

We need some time before we can finalize our remedial plan. Maybe by the end of this month?

Okay I appreciate the heads up

The worst case scenario for me in this situation would be to have no N30 at all, so I don’t plan on returning mine, which I will be out of this choice by the end of the month as I’ve almost had my DAP for 2 weeks, but knowing the logistics of what would happen if it does arise is important. Thanks.

 

[Andykong]

Okay I appreciate the heads up

The worst case scenario for me in this situation would be to have no N30 at all, so I don’t plan on returning mine, which I will be out of this choice by the end of the month as I’ve almost had my DAP for 2 weeks, but knowing the logistics of what would happen if it does arise is important. Thanks.

Thank you very much for your kind support and being considerate.

The important thing is, Cayin is not trying to play any delay tactic. We need more time to handle the situation and formulate our plan. We didn't take this lightly

 

[aaf evo]

Thank you very much for your kind support and being considerate.

The important thing is, Cayin is not trying to play any delay tactic. We need more time to handle the situation and formulate our plan. We didn't take this lightly

I think I can speak behalf on everyone that’s been posting here the last week or so, we ALL want this to go as smoothly as possible. The N30 is a seriously special device. I am almost certain if this DAP wasn’t as excellent this thread would be a nightmare.

 

[visi77]

having first been put off by the different components in the regular and AP dap and having preordered the regular one, I had my preorder canceled furious about the aparent lack of communication etc, old story now. fast forward last week, I did go back and order the AP combo right before the hissgate started. I will not cancel it but instead have instructed my dealer to open the package upon arrival to them from cayin and test it before they send it out to me. i would rather they replace it right away if that's the case. maybe it would be a good idea to do so if you plan to order from now on

 

[osocan]

Yuppp I sure did. Sorry about that.

To illustrate - for the same bass section, when you feel the bass impact from your ears to your chest, the EE's bass seems to flow smoothly in an uninterrupted manner. In the MM's case, there seems to be a fraction of a second of pause before I felt the rumble in my chest. This pause causes anticipation.

To my mind, the MM's bass is very textured and defined. Maybe even tighter. EE's bass on the other hand is very cohesive.

Both are very enjoyable. My personal preference is the MM as a whole.

 

[zoidbb]

Drop a like on this if you want @Andykong to convince Cayin to produce a C9ii that utilize the epic new amplification circuit from the N30LE. Holy smokes is this thing hot, and if we could get a few more watts output? Wooooowwweeee!

To illustrate - for the same bass section, when you feel the bass impact from your ears to your chest, the EE's bass seems to flow smoothly in an uninterrupted manner. In the MM's case, there seems to be a fraction of a second of pause before I felt the rumble in my chest. This pause causes anticipation.

To my mind, the MM's bass is very textured and defined. Maybe even tighter. EE's bass on the other hand is very cohesive.

Both are very enjoyable. My personal preference is the MM as a whole.

Welp, guess I’m gonna get both Raven and MM. Oops