[Auricon]

@Andykong any clarification about:
1) erratic charging led light spazzing
2) units freezing during operation and taking long time to resume

Thank you!

Honestly number 1 is a non issue... unless it's a sign of an underlying issue (?).

Number 2 I still have to experience, but I think the bug report needs extra info (when does it occur : running what apps, is the device hot, which micro SD cars are you operating... etc).

Number 2 is still an issue requiring a force reboot (Power + Vol down/Prev button).

Freezing can occur at any time:

• From switching between apps, accessing settings, dismissing quick access menu
• Including volume switching and resuming playback
• Device temperature is not factor as freezing can occur from a fresh reboot and interacting with UI or warm from use
• microSD card is not a factor with freezing
• And multiple freezes – fresh boot > play Tidal > change audio settings via quick setting menu or settings app > freeze > forced reboot > play Tidal > play Qobuz > swipe to Tidal > freeze

I've experienced multiple freezes requiring forced reboots since the latest firmware. In all instances, I've factory restored my N30LE multiple times (6 times so far from testing) and freezes can still occur.

 

[ClubQ]

For anyone experiencing the crashing, have you tried factory resetting the device? This solved the crashing problem for me it seems.

The major issue I’m experiencing right now is during streaming playback tracks will randomly start playing 10x slower and be distorted. This will last for a random amount of time. Sometimes it’s solved by unplugging and replugging in the AP, however not all the time. Usually it goes away within 5-10 minutes if you pause the track and just wait. Very frustrating issue.

I’ve got exactly the same problems. Sent a list of problems direct to the factory today. I’m not pleased you’ve got the problem but I thought I was going mad.

 

[zoidbb]

First of all, Cayin wants to extend our sincere apology to all the N30LE users who have encountered the hissing problem.

Before we explain the problem, we want to advise N30LE users to contact their dealer immediately if they run into any hissing problems. Once our dealer confirms the problem, we shall swap a new machine immediately if the dealer has N30LE in stock, or our dealer will collect the N30LE from you. Alternatively, if the dealers don’t have any spare N30LE in stock, we’ll send out a new set of N30LE to the dealer immediately when the problem is verified and documented. On the other hand, to assist in solving this problem effectively, we need you to provide a detailed description of the IEM, headphones, and cable that produce the hissing problem, our dealer will collect the information and photo from you for documentation and further investigation of the hissing problem. We shall try our best to minimize the logistic delay but to safeguard the interest of the dealers, please return the reported DAP to your dealer before the new N30LE package arrives at the dealer’s shop. Our dealer will work out the details with each customer, and we’ll keep a close eye to make sure the interests of our users are handled in good hands.

We started to investigate the hissing problem after Torq shared his problem, we cannot replicate the problem in our laboratory. It appears to be a randomized problem that can’t be determined or replicated even when we conducted vigorous loading experiments with the N30LE units we have on hand.

From what we have been told, the hissing only shows up at Class A or Hyper Mode (which by default is operated in Class A mode) with 4.4mm balanced phone output. We also noticed that the hissing is not audible in Class AB amplification mode. Theoretically, Class A and Class AB are only different biased settings of the same circuit, and the working current of Class A is relatively higher than Class AB. Besides, the hissing problem will only show up with certain IEMs/headphones or IEM/headphone cables, so it is a random event or trigger by certain unusual electrical characteristics of the IEMs/headphones or IEM/headphone cables.

We shall ship back Torq’s N30LE and perform a thorough study. In the meantime, we have received another hissing report from a local N30LE user in China. The hissing problem only appears with a particular IEM cable, so we asked him to send his N30LE, the IEM with cable to us, and we received the package on 17th September 2023. These are our findings from the weekend:

1. We can replicate the hissing problem with the returned N30LE and that particular IEM and IEM cable.
2. The hissing disappeared when we swapped with another N30LE from our inventory. We have tried three sets of N30LE and couldn’t replicate the hissing problem again.
3. As the user has mentioned that the hissing is only audible with the particular cable, we swapped it to another IEM cable with compatible connectors. We confirmed that with the returned N30LE and the IEM+ cable made available to us, there was no audible hissing noise after we swapped the IEM cable.
4. Now this is the part that truly surprises us. Because the IEM is a modular design with swappable connectors, we tried swapping the connectors. When we replaced the 4.4mm connectors on this IEM cable with another compatible 4.4mm connector, the hissing disappeared.
5. Unfortunately, when we reconnected the original 4.4mm connector back to the IEM cable, the hissing problem returned, so we eliminated the possibility of insecure installation in the hissing problem
6. We have borrowed a set of Meze 109Pro headphones with bundled headphone cables from a local Cayin dealer. This headphone has been mentioned as one of the sources of hissing instances. Since it is readily available locally, so we move on quickly today. When we connected the Meze 109Pro to the returned N30LE and several N30LE in our inventory, we couldn’t replicate the hissing problem. This further explained that the hissing problem is a mix and match of N30LE with certain IEM/headphones under unit variance conditions.

Based on the testing we have conducted so far, our current working theory is the problem is related to specific capacitive loading characteristics that show up in unit variance occasionally. The problem only shows up with a particular DAP + IEM/headphone + cable combination and the problem is unit dependent. This problematic combination will exhibit capacitive loading characteristics that produce sound effects similar to white noise.

We shall continue our problem-solving. We need more time to investigate the problem, and hopefully, when we receive Torq’s returned N30LE DAP, we can widen our test samples and collect more information. If you prefer to discuss your hissing problem directly with Cayin staff after you have reported your instance to your dealers, please feel free to email us at service@cayin.cn.

We shall keep the N30LE community informed when we gather more information and hopefully pinpoint the source of the problem scientifically.

Once again, we apologize for all the inconvenience caused, please work with your dealer immediately to speed up the return and replacement process.

How on earth is our dealer supposed to confirm the problem when you can’t even confirm the problem reliably? Are we supposed to also ship our dealer the exact headphones and cable that cause the problem?

I sold my other DAPs to fund this purchase. I would be much more comfortable if you worked with dealers to get replacements shipped out to them /before/ we ship our units back. I really don’t want to sit here without a DAP for weeks.

 

[ClubQ]

For anyone experiencing the crashing, have you tried factory resetting the device? This solved the crashing problem for me it seems.

The major issue I’m experiencing right now is during streaming playback tracks will randomly start playing 10x slower and be distorted. This will last for a random amount of time. Sometimes it’s solved by unplugging and replugging in the AP, however not all the time. Usually it goes away within 5-10 minutes if you pause the track and just wait. Very frustrating issue.

Could I just ask as you are the only person apart from me that has mentioned the playing 10 times slower problem do you also have a problem with the dap showing it’s playing a track when it’s not or stopping a few seconds after starting the track. Thank you.

 

[Auricon]

Could I just ask as you are the only person apart from me that has mentioned the playing 10 times slower problem do you also have a problem with the dap showing it’s playing a track when it’s not or stopping a few seconds after starting the track. Thank you.

Which app are you experiencing slow playback? I could test to see if I can replicate.

 

[ClubQ]

Which app are you experiencing slow playback? I could test to see if I can replicate.

It was on Qobuz and Apple Music.

 

[RonaldS86]

How on earth is our dealer supposed to confirm the problem when you can’t even confirm the problem reliably? Are we supposed to also ship our dealer the exact headphones and cable that cause the problem?

I sold my other DAPs to fund this purchase. I would be much more comfortable if you worked with dealers to get replacements shipped out to them /before/ we ship our units back. I really don’t want to sit here without a DAP for weeks.

I think what Andy mean is more like the dealer can help confirm to Cayin that your unit is indeed faulty before they replace it with the new unit? If the dealer is on another city, then yes you have to ship your DAP with the exact IEM and the cable that cause it

 

[zoidbb]

I think what Andy mean is more like the dealer can help confirm to Cayin that your unit is indeed faulty before they replace it with the new unit? If the dealer is on another city, then yes you have to ship your DAP with the exact IEM and the cable that cause it

Was this model even available at a normal storefront? Pretty sure all the retailers for the US at least were online only…

 

[aaf evo]

Argh, I can look & listen to this all day.

This DAP has sort of revitalized the hobby for me and my overall enjoyment of spending hours listening to music. I went through a phase of only having short 20-30 minute sessions while I was making my early morning breakfast or perhaps during dinner. The N30 makes me want to spend hours listening to music rather than being glued to the TV when I have free time at home watching whatever I can to pass the time. I have missed this feeling.

 

[jwilliamhurst]

Argh, I can look & listen to this all day.

This DAP has sort of revitalized the hobby for me and my overall enjoyment of spending hours listening to music. I went through a phase of only having short 20-30 minute sessions while I was making my early morning breakfast or perhaps during dinner. The N30 makes me want to spend hours listening to music rather than being glued to the TV when I have free time at home watching whatever I can to pass the time. I have missed this feeling.

Right there with you!

I was doing the same thing. Listening for random short periods of time and then just streaming shows…but now every single chance I get to listen, even if it’s for 10min I’m pushing play on the N30LE. This DAP’s SQ will push the hobby forward. I don’t know how anyone will top this sound….maybe LP7 when it’s released in 2099!

 

[zoidbb]

Anyone looking for a better, more protective case please drop a like on this comment. I’m going to be working on designing one in a couple weeks. The exposed edges and scuffing of the back of the DAP on the included case are driving me insane.

 

[jwilliamhurst]

Anyone looking for a better, more protective case please drop a like on this comment. I’m going to be working on designing one in a couple weeks. The exposed edges and scuffing of the back of the DAP on the included case are driving me insane.

I don’t mind the case and it’s not caused any scratches on my unit this far but I always like options

 

[Andykong]

How on earth is our dealer supposed to confirm the problem when you can’t even confirm the problem reliably? Are we supposed to also ship our dealer the exact headphones and cable that cause the problem?

I sold my other DAPs to fund this purchase. I would be much more comfortable if you worked with dealers to get replacements shipped out to them /before/ we ship our units back. I really don’t want to sit here without a DAP for weeks.

We can't confirm the root cause of the hissing, but we have confirmed the hissing problem. We don't need to wait for the diagnosis in order to confirm there is a problem, and we have done that already.

We can't issue a detailed procedure and assume it will work for all the dealers carrying N30LE. Every dealer is working with their own logistic constraint. For the record, MusicTeck has a physical store, and our dealers in Asia countries such as Japan, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, Philippines, and Thailand are retail shop-based, but that doesn't mean on-site inspection is always feasible. For example, our Taiwan dealer operates a retail shop in Taipei, if an N30LE user needs to return his player and he happens to live in the northern part of Taiwan (Taipei, Xinbei, Taoyuan), he can drop by the store in person, but if he lived in Taichung, Tainan and Kaohsiung, then the dealer will work with him without on-site inspection. Our announcement is a starting point for different countries and different cities, please pardon our generalization in the announcement because we need that kind of flexibility as a starting point.

We have contacted our dealer, kept them informed, and discussed appropriate arrangements with them BEFORE I post our announcement on the HeadFi forum. We have advised our dealer to keep us informed when they receive a hissing complaint, and if users run into any problem with their dealer, they can always contact us directly, we have left an email address in the announcement already.

The arrangement varied from place to place. For some locations, the user can return the player to the shop in person and bring the IEM/headphone/cable along for on-site illustration. For other locations, it can be as simple as providing a written email to describe their problem and provide a photo of the N30LE (with the serial number visible) and the IEM/headphone/cable that produces the hissing problem. To start with, Auricon has provided a very good example to describe his hissing problem, he listed the headphone/cable and N30LE working status that produce the hissing problem and the gears that won't. This is a good start IMHO.

Please rest assured that Cayin didn't intend to hide behind the doors and let our customers work with the dealers without getting involved. Please contact your dealer and explain your problem to them, if you are not getting anyway, send us an email or drop me a PM, and we'll provide the necessary assistant promptly.

 

[zoidbb]

We can't confirm the root cause of the hissing, but we have confirmed the hissing problem. We don't need to wait for the diagnosis in order to confirm there is a problem, and we have done that already.

We can't issue a detailed procedure and assume it will work for all the dealers carrying N30LE. Every dealer is working with their own logistic constraint. For the record, MusicTeck has a physical store, and our dealers in Asia countries such as Japan, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, Philippines, and Thailand are retail shop-based, but that doesn't mean on-site inspection is always feasible. For example, our Taiwan dealer operates a retail shop in Taipei, if an N30LE user needs to return his player and he happens to live in the northern part of Taiwan (Taipei, Xinbei, Taoyuan), he can drop by the store in person, but if he lived in Taichung, Tainan and Kaohsiung, then the dealer will work with him without on-site inspection. Our announcement is a starting point for different countries and different cities, please pardon our generalization in the announcement because we need that kind of flexibility as a starting point.

We have contacted our dealer, kept them informed, and discussed appropriate arrangements with them BEFORE I post our announcement on the HeadFi forum. We have advised our dealer to keep us informed when they receive a hissing complaint, and if users run into any problem with their dealer, they can always contact us directly, we have left an email address in the announcement already.

The arrangement varied from place to place. For some locations, the user can return the player to the shop in person and bring the IEM/headphone/cable along for on-site illustration. For other locations, it can be as simple as providing a written email to describe their problem and provide a photo of the N30LE (with the serial number visible) and the IEM/headphone/cable that produces the hissing problem. To start with, Auricon has provided a very good example to describe his hissing problem, he listed the headphone/cable and N30LE working status that produce the hissing problem and the gears that won't. This is a good start IMHO.

Please rest assured that Cayin didn't intend to hide behind the doors and let our customers work with the dealers without getting involved. Please contact your dealer and explain your problem to them, if you are not getting anyway, send us an email or drop me a PM, and we'll provide the necessary assistant promptly.

It just seemed confusing since I think most of us ordered from online retailers. I already contacted Andrew and let him know of the issue, and requested that we wait to do a replacement until after you guys know what the problem is and can issue an appropriate fix. I don’t want to be without a DAP, and I don’t really have any faith in a random replacement unit just magically working fine when you don’t even know the root cause.

Btw, Andy, when I complain about poor engineering and design decisions I want you to know that these are statements meant for Cayin engineering and product /leadership/, who should be in charge of ensuring these things are appropriately taken care of before hitting users. You are awesome, the engineers who kicked ass on the audio components are awesome. It’s just that as a hardware engineering leader at a Fortune 10 company, and as someone who has more than $20k in Cayin gear now, I take issue with some of the apparent and significant issues with the end product.

 

[davidmolliere]

Argh, I can look & listen to this all day.

This DAP has sort of revitalized the hobby for me and my overall enjoyment of spending hours listening to music. I went through a phase of only having short 20-30 minute sessions while I was making my early morning breakfast or perhaps during dinner. The N30 makes me want to spend hours listening to music rather than being glued to the TV when I have free time at home watching whatever I can to pass the time. I have missed this feeling.

My feelings exactly!

Every occasion I have I pick the N30, push play and time disappears
As I said, it's almost like a drug