Cayin N3 Hi-Res DAP with AKM4490 DAC, apt-X Bluetooth, and Line, USB & Coax Out for $150

[docholliday]

YES! I forgot to mention the fact that you can actually clean sound with EQ, at times even by using 2 EQ for the same frequencies: one to "clean" the sound, the other one to enhance the frequency. So true, thanks for the nice, exhaustive and professional explanation about the EQ use, I would love as many people as possible to read it...
In regards to the N3 EQ, thank you for the explanation as well; I will try again the method of pulling the "good" freqs, I didn't really believe in that and tried it just a few times, didn't find it satisfactory. I need to use it with more songs and get used to it. I have set the NS to low gain, as I've read that it might have more punch it it works at almost full volume, I will check how the EQ works that way (But I must admit, I like when the black magic happens behind my back!) You have what I consider a dream job, I should have followed my instinct and follow that path as well, but instead went to a Business school, lol... Thanks for taking the time to share your valuable skills

Try the N3 at mid gain, even with "sensitive" IEMs, the EQ seems to work better at med gain. I also find with new equip and unknown EQs the first time around that sometimes, cranking everyhing to max (or min), and bringing each item back one freq at a time, makes it easier to "see" how each freq reacts. Don't worry about making it sound right, just pick a track you know, turn the volume down a bit, crank every EQ to +6, and bring each one back to 0db one a time. Listen for the changes. Then, do the same, but start with a full -6db. Let your ears "learn" how each item reacts first, then set everything to 0db and tweak away. Just because something says 150Hz and it *should* tweak toms doesn't mean that it may not bleed over into something else. It's much more important on less precise EQs as each frequency has some sort of slope into the adjacent freq, smoothing the transitions. Larger EQs like the DBX 1231 are more precise and you can truly notch a frequency, but with 5/8/15 band ones, you have some compromises that need to be made.

As far as dream job goes, I'm actually a software engineer and have been for over 30 years. It came in handy about 20 years ago when I first got involved with sound, accidentally. I was designing and building platforms for a lot of early digital effect and recording at that time. And, I was lucky that a lot of old-skool sound guys *made* me learn sound as I was spending a lot of time around the boards anyways. Over the years, I developed my own discipline for recording and have done many bands since then, but I was first and foremost a live guy - which forced me to train my ear more than my brain. One can sit in a studio all day and slowly play around with an EQ to get it right, but when feedback pops up in a live show - you gotta act fast and know exactly which frequency to pull! Yet, it's only part time for me nowadays. It's a nice break between coding to go do something creative, like record an album or produce a weekend gig, instead of designing databases, coding DICOM imaging, and doing tons of calculus!

 

[bluchicboi]

Songs sometimes distorts at first 10-15 seconds using bluetooth. Tried firmware 2.2 up to the latest but no luck, still there. Tried turning off every settings "album art, gapless, aptx, etc." still there. Anyone experienced this problem?

 

[Le Stef]

Try the N3 at mid gain, even with "sensitive" IEMs, the EQ seems to work better at med gain. I also find with new equip and unknown EQs the first time around that sometimes, cranking everyhing to max (or min), and bringing each item back one freq at a time, makes it easier to "see" how each freq reacts. Don't worry about making it sound right, just pick a track you know, turn the volume down a bit, crank every EQ to +6, and bring each one back to 0db one a time. Listen for the changes. Then, do the same, but start with a full -6db. Let your ears "learn" how each item reacts first, then set everything to 0db and tweak away. Just because something says 150Hz and it *should* tweak toms doesn't mean that it may not bleed over into something else. It's much more important on less precise EQs as each frequency has some sort of slope into the adjacent freq, smoothing the transitions. Larger EQs like the DBX 1231 are more precise and you can truly notch a frequency, but with 5/8/15 band ones, you have some compromises that need to be made.

As far as dream job goes, I'm actually a software engineer and have been for over 30 years. It came in handy about 20 years ago when I first got involved with sound, accidentally. I was designing and building platforms for a lot of early digital effect and recording at that time. And, I was lucky that a lot of old-skool sound guys *made* me learn sound as I was spending a lot of time around the boards anyways. Over the years, I developed my own discipline for recording and have done many bands since then, but I was first and foremost a live guy - which forced me to train my ear more than my brain. One can sit in a studio all day and slowly play around with an EQ to get it right, but when feedback pops up in a live show - you gotta act fast and know exactly which frequency to pull! Yet, it's only part time for me nowadays. It's a nice break between coding to go do something creative, like record an album or produce a weekend gig, instead of designing databases, coding DICOM imaging, and doing tons of calculus!

Nice professional path You seem very passionate about it, too, that's great! I've tried to set all the freqs to zero and push them up, the N3 has definitely more punch. I will try to set it at mid gain for additional improvement. Maybe that is the best one can obtain for a portable device without amp. BTW, do you know any affordable player under $250 that would beat the N3 in terms of sound and power? It is a good player (you use it, too), but I'm not sure it is the best choice. You're absolutely right with the bandwidth of the indicated EQ freqs, that's why I do no longer consider players without an EQ of less than 10 bands; unfortunately it is the max you usually get, the next step in portable DAPs is a parametric EQ, or that wonderful application (but for iOS only): "EQ everywhere", which allows you to fully customize your EQ and create as many bands as you wish, and to set individually each band's frequency and bandwidth!! You can create as many bands as you wish: terrific! Unfortunately it is only available on apple devices and... the skin and the colours suck! But the tool in itself is fantastic. I wish something similar were available on a DAP like the Cayin N3. I love to use the 30 band-EQ on my desktop and with the power of its amp, I get a fabulous sound which I can really adjust to my taste and I wish I could get a similar experience with a portable device without an amp, but I guess it's not gonna happen.

 

[docholliday]

Nice professional path You seem very passionate about it, too, that's great! I've tried to set all the freqs to zero and push them up, the N3 has definitely more punch. I will try to set it at mid gain for additional improvement. Maybe that is the best one can obtain for a portable device without amp. BTW, do you know any affordable player under $250 that would beat the N3 in terms of sound and power? It is a good player (you use it, too), but I'm not sure it is the best choice. You're absolutely right with the bandwidth of the indicated EQ freqs, that's why I do no longer consider players without an EQ of less than 10 bands; unfortunately it is the max you usually get, the next step in portable DAPs is a parametric EQ, or that wonderful application (but for iOS only): "EQ everywhere", which allows you to fully customize your EQ and create as many bands as you wish, and to set individually each band's frequency and bandwidth!! You can create as many bands as you wish: terrific! Unfortunately it is only available on apple devices and... the skin and the colours suck! But the tool in itself is fantastic. I wish something similar were available on a DAP like the Cayin N3. I love to use the 30 band-EQ on my desktop and with the power of its amp, I get a fabulous sound which I can really adjust to my taste and I wish I could get a similar experience with a portable device without an amp, but I guess it's not gonna happen.

The EQ on the N3 is a bit finicky, but with a little patience, it does quite well. The only real "bug" I found was that sometimes it would suddenly stop applying the EQ if you adjusted it a bunch and you had to pause-play the track to get it to come back. I'm afraid I don't have a recommendation for players under $250 as I usually find one that works good and stick with it. Currently, I use the N3 and a Sony A-35 with PNY512GB and Sandisk 400GB cards and the UERR or JH16. If I really need clarity, "real" EQ, or I'm coding away, I'll resort to my desktop setup - MediaMonkey through Motu 828 and dbx1231 into Genelec 8330 and Tannoy 502 (near and far fields). If I'm wireless around the house, I'll use the IEMs in a Shure PSM bodypack from the Motu. Of course, there's the required Sony 7506/7509 sets that are plugged in too.

Both the N3 and the A35 produce 95% of what I expect to hear when I'm out and about. After I do a mixdown, I usually transfer a copy onto one of these and check it while stepping out of the booth. I've always felt that quality IEMs make more of a difference, as most "enthusiast" ones have bumps to make the music more exciting (who's concept of exciting?) so you'd usually have to neutralize the IEM first, losing some quality from the track at the get-go. But, I've also been known to check the track on an old "boom-box" and under-counter kitchen radio, as well as driving around in my truck.

The problem with EQ'ing digitally is that more bands/precision require more processing power and these little players just don't have the procs to do it. Android/Apple players may have the processors, but you pay with horrible interfaces, wasted processing power on unneeded OS functions, and low battery life. There's only so much that these SoC devices can do and I feel that the N3 does quite well for what it's got and the cost. The Sony A35/45 is also nice. It has a few quirks, but the sound is smooth and the main reason I like it...the battery life. Turn off all the ridiculous consumer effects, leave just the EQ on, and the A35 just lasts forever. The only quirk that I notice (and doesn't really bother me) is the occasional lag in the touch UI on the 35, but it seems to be fixed in the newer versions (A45/55). Since I don't use any wireless things (BT, streaming audio) the extra gimmicks don't do a thing for me, nor does the ridiculous Sony marketing hype of better solder, etc. so the A35 has been fine.

The last requirement I have for portable audio is that I want something I can smash or otherwise handle roughly and not worry about. Hence, why I don't spend big $$ on portable gear. I don't want to have to baby the items, whether in studio, hiking through the woods, or traveling. And if do lose or break it, I can replace it for next to nothing (they're just tools to me). But, both these devices have held up through a lot without a problem. I've only had to replace the leather(ette) cases on them from high wear.

 

[Le Stef]

The EQ on the N3 is a bit finicky, but with a little patience, it does quite well. The only real "bug" I found was that sometimes it would suddenly stop applying the EQ if you adjusted it a bunch and you had to pause-play the track to get it to come back. I'm afraid I don't have a recommendation for players under $250 as I usually find one that works good and stick with it. Currently, I use the N3 and a Sony A-35 with PNY512GB and Sandisk 400GB cards and the UERR or JH16. If I really need clarity, "real" EQ, or I'm coding away, I'll resort to my desktop setup - MediaMonkey through Motu 828 and dbx1231 into Genelec 8330 and Tannoy 502 (near and far fields). If I'm wireless around the house, I'll use the IEMs in a Shure PSM bodypack from the Motu. Of course, there's the required Sony 7506/7509 sets that are plugged in too.

Both the N3 and the A35 produce 95% of what I expect to hear when I'm out and about. After I do a mixdown, I usually transfer a copy onto one of these and check it while stepping out of the booth. I've always felt that quality IEMs make more of a difference, as most "enthusiast" ones have bumps to make the music more exciting (who's concept of exciting?) so you'd usually have to neutralize the IEM first, losing some quality from the track at the get-go. But, I've also been known to check the track on an old "boom-box" and under-counter kitchen radio, as well as driving around in my truck.

The problem with EQ'ing digitally is that more bands/precision require more processing power and these little players just don't have the procs to do it. Android/Apple players may have the processors, but you pay with horrible interfaces, wasted processing power on unneeded OS functions, and low battery life. There's only so much that these SoC devices can do and I feel that the N3 does quite well for what it's got and the cost. The Sony A35/45 is also nice. It has a few quirks, but the sound is smooth and the main reason I like it...the battery life. Turn off all the ridiculous consumer effects, leave just the EQ on, and the A35 just lasts forever. The only quirk that I notice (and doesn't really bother me) is the occasional lag in the touch UI on the 35, but it seems to be fixed in the newer versions (A45/55). Since I don't use any wireless things (BT, streaming audio) the extra gimmicks don't do a thing for me, nor does the ridiculous Sony marketing hype of better solder, etc. so the A35 has been fine.

The last requirement I have for portable audio is that I want something I can smash or otherwise handle roughly and not worry about. Hence, why I don't spend big $$ on portable gear. I don't want to have to baby the items, whether in studio, hiking through the woods, or traveling. And if do lose or break it, I can replace it for next to nothing (they're just tools to me). But, both these devices have held up through a lot without a problem. I've only had to replace the leather(ette) cases on them from high wear.

It's funny that you mention the A35, as the A35 or A45 was the one I thought I would "upgrade" the N3 with, shouldn't I be happy with it. But it seems that they have both only a 6-Band EQ and 2x35mW output power, so I wasn't expecting really much better sound compared to my X-1050, which I just can't adjust to my taste (2 bands remain missing in the sub-bass region to really improve the bass without bleeding into the mids and I don't like its sound without boosting the bass). BUT that was before I tried your suggestion to reduce bands instead of increasing them. I must say, with that method, the N3 really shines and provides a good punchy sound; I can finally adjust some anaemic tracks and get something really pleasant and fun to listen! And good recordings just shine, but for these I just don't use the EQ most of the time or with minimal adjustments. I had read a post from DBaldock9, who said that this method didn't really work for the N3, but it does. I find though it may alter the sound more than pushing up the frequencies, I need to double check, but in any case this method reveals the potential of this unit. I totally agree on the fact that IEMs play a big role as well and like you, I don't want to spend a lot of money in items that I may easily lose or damage (I would go mad if I lost a pair of Shure IEMS!!!), but still want decent sound, until I find the real gem. I have recently purchased a KZ-ES4, just to give the brand a try, and after some initial disappointment, I must admit they are really performing well and so cheap for the sound quality they can produce. I have ordered the ZSR, which supposedly sounds better, let's see. So far, this combination produces a very nice, clear, detailed sound, and the N3 can turn the IEMs into mini-subwoofers if desired (I know, horrible for "purists" but so much fun to listen to at times! I have a also read your posts about the digital filter and can adapt it accordingly.

So far, I am no longer considering changing my N3, which seems to meet my needs in terms of sound and power! And as you say, it would be difficult to obtain better EQ results in a portable format, and the N3 has still a decent size. I hope some updates will bring more improvements (I would love to be able to access the EQ directly from the playback screen, instead of having to return to the settings -common issue with many players- Like e.g. the Fiio x5III, which has an EQ icon on the main screen).

 

[julianlopez85]

Hey guys...considering the 11.11 sale is coming up, anyone had paired they n3 with the bgvp dm6? would really like to know if they're a step up from my tin audio t2...thanks.

 

[ilcanzese]

the new "big" no expansive IEM is : https://penonaudio.com/bqeyz-kb100.html +/-050$
a head-fi test here : https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/bqeyz-kb100.23369/reviews
i stay with my T2 .......a wonderful IEM with the "good" tip : https://www.amazon.com/OSTRY-OS200-...F8&qid=1541598775&sr=8-6&keywords=Ostry+Os100
and why not the new T2 pro ? https://www.amazon.com/T2-Pro-Dynam...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=VTR3RQJ2BPDPT5TB00HJ

 

[docholliday]

the new "big" no expansive IEM is : https://penonaudio.com/bqeyz-kb100.html +/-050$
a head-fi test here : https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/bqeyz-kb100.23369/reviews
i stay with my T2 .......a wonderful IEM with the "good" tip : https://www.amazon.com/OSTRY-OS200-...F8&qid=1541598775&sr=8-6&keywords=Ostry+Os100
and why not the new T2 pro ? https://www.amazon.com/T2-Pro-Dynam...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=VTR3RQJ2BPDPT5TB00HJ

Eh?

 

[ilcanzese]

my personally esperience with my Cayin N3 .............. sorry for the multi-links
and for my "poor" english
i've this player and i'm so happy ..........

 

[cirodts]

I have read that astell & kerm are excellent transport for the mojo and that the sound of the mojo varies depending on the digital transport.
beyond the practicality of the cayin n3 you are sure that it makes good transport for the mojo? better than an astell & kerm?

 

[gLer]

I have read that astell & kerm are excellent transport for the mojo and that the sound of the mojo varies depending on the digital transport.
beyond the practicality of the cayin n3 you are sure that it makes good transport for the mojo? better than an astell & kerm?

If it’s a true digital transport there should be no difference between N3 and A&K feeding the Mojo. Besides to buy an A&K only to use as a digital transport sounds like a real waste of a very expensive dap. A $150 N3 I can understand.

 

[cirodts]

yes, but there are people who say that if the digital transport changes "DAP" changes the sound of the mojo.

 

[gLer]

yes, but there are people who say that if the digital transport changes "DAP" changes the sound of the mojo.

Only if the dap is modifying the digital signal before it reaches the Mojo, in which case it’s not bitperfect digital transport.

 

[cirodts]

I use lg v20 as transport and hyby as player, hiby does not have bit-perfect output?

 

[gLer]

I use lg v20 as transport and hyby as player, hiby does not have bit-perfect output?

Sorry but I have no idea.