[Andykong]

I wonder when Cayin will release the next update to further improve on a great DAP. Hopefully the next new update will bring big improvements that will leave other DAPs at the same price range in the dust

Well, the next firmware is just round the corner, so stay tuned.

 

[docholliday]

I really need someone to confirm gapless actually works on the N3.

My understanding is most DAPs have a gapless on/off option but it can't be taken for granted it works even when set to on. I will prefer to return the N3 unopened than opening it and discovering what I am starting to worry is inevitable, that gapless play does not work.

As an aside, I don't know why gapless exists as an option, any device should simply playback as intended in the album. If there are gaps then you get a gap. No gaps and you don't get gaps. Seems straightforward really. Why would anyone playing an album produced with no gaps between tracks introduce gaps? Can anyone shed any light on what this is all about?

Geez. Chill. It's only been an hour since your last post. Yes, gapless works perfectly fine with the N3.

 

[docholliday]

Well, the next firmware is just round the corner, so stay tuned.

Nice! Did you see my post about the Category setting above?

 

[Andykong]

Nice! Did you see my post about the Category setting above?

Yes, I have noted the suggestion but I haven't submit it for evaluation yet, so it won't be included in the next firmware.

 

[Andykong]

First off, welcome back @Andykong!

Well, my travel schedule is over-crowded, I just back from Taiwan for 10 days, and I'll be heading to LA again next week for the LAAS. This will be my fifth trip (3x USA, 1x Singapore and 1 x Taiwan) since February 2017. I simply can't show up on forum as frequently as I would love to as half of my time was either traveling of fighting against jet lag.

Anyway, my doctor has warned me and I probably will cut down my trip arrangement in second half of 2017. Let's see if I can catch up. I try to get back by doing a 10 pages block whenever I have 1-2 days that I can focused on the Forum and I just covered everything up to Page 120, so I am not too far away from the ideal pave right now.

 

[BrianD19]

Geez. Chill. It's only been an hour since your last post. Yes, gapless works perfectly fine with the N3.

Nice! Did you see my post about the Category setting above?

Geez. Chill. It's only been a couple of hours since your suggestion was last acknowledged.

All I'm trying to do is buy a DAP and be fair to the retailer while doing that. It hasn't arrived yet and I don't want to open the box if it is already known to stumble on gapless play because if it does, I will return it for sure. I notice no response from Andykong on this question.

Sorry if my wanting to confirm gapless works bothers you. You could have just said, "Yes, gapless works perfectly fine with the N3".

 

[groucho69]

We call it Custom case for N3, it is pleather so we don't call it a leather case just in case.

http://en.cayin.cn/products_info?itemid=107

And yet I still cannot buy one in Canada

 

[waynes world]

No argument there. I tested 1 test song so far, Genesis' Squonk and they sound very close to each other. The Fulla being a tad darker, the Cayin has a tad more detail in the mids and high end. Soundstage is pretty much a push, maybe a little larger on the Cayin. Bass is different but I cannot pinpoint what it is. Both sound great in the end. Given I will rarely use the Cayin as a DAC this was more of an academic exercise for those considering the N3 for dual duty.

That is interesting, thanks.

Oh, and Squonk is awesome

 

[Andykong]

Geez. Chill. It's only been a couple of hours since your suggestion was last acknowledged.

All I'm trying to do is buy a DAP and be fair to the retailer while doing that. It hasn't arrived yet and I don't want to open the box if it is already known to stumble on gapless play because if it does, I will return it for sure. I notice no response from Andykong on this question.

Sorry if my wanting to confirm gapless works bothers you. You could have just said, "Yes, gapless works perfectly fine with the N3".

That's because I was focused on questions and discussion on page 111- page 120. I have to be systematic otherwise I'll never be able to cover all the posts effectively.

Yes, based on my personal experience, gapless works very well with the N3, I can't hear the gap with the live concert albums I have.

By the way, its difficult and probably unreasonable to insist waiting for me to respond to each and every questions promptly. I am doing the best I could to get involved but this is not always feasible, and the time different is making it difficult .... by the way, this is 1:09 am when I respond to your post.

 

[gLer]

That's because I was focused on questions and discussion on page 111- page 120. I have to be systematic otherwise I'll never be able to cover all the posts effectively.

Yes, based on my personal experience, gapless works very well with the N3, I can't hear the gap with the live concert albums I have.

By the way, its difficult and probably unreasonable to insist waiting for me to respond to each and every questions promptly. I am doing the best I could to get involved but this is not always feasible, and the time different is making it difficult .... by the way, this is 1:09 am when I respond to your post.

Thank you @Andykong - I'm sure I speak for everyone else when I say we really appreciate your attention and feedback on this forum. Now go get some sleep!

 

[waynes world]

Hey guys,

Morning here in Cape Town so will be doing more testing today. As you may have read @Andykong has confirmed The N3 does NOT support aptX in receive mode, and my own contact at Cayin has confirmed the same. This means when you use the N3 as a wireless DAC it uses the lower quality SBC codec, and you're therefore not getting anywhere near 'cd quality' transport of your music files from your cellphone or computer via the N3. It also means using your N3 as a portable transport for getting Tidal or Spotify high-res (or even high quality) music to your N3 is a no-go.

To me this is extremely disappointing, and as you can see in the quote above (from one of the original Cayin support posts on this thread) aptX was touted as a far superior codec and it was inferred the N3 supported aptX in its bi-directional transmission. This is now NOT the case, which leaves a bad taste as it was one of the clinching factors for me personally.

I'm slightly encouraged by @Andykong suggesting they may fix this issue in firmware - and given the N3 supports aptX transmission, the hardware must be in place to do so. If not, it's a big minus, irrespective of whether or not you think it's a major feature, purely because it was promoted as a major feature by Cayin itself.

I've read all of your posts. Imo, they were well written and informative. Thanks.

You touched on what is fairly important to me. One important feature are two card slots, but that's not happening with the N3 and I could live with that. but the other very desirable feature is the "aptX in receive mode". I understand that the N3 is very good value even without that feature, but if it had it, then I would be buying one right now.

@Andykong, a firmware update to add that feature would be awesome!

 

[Andykong]

Hey guys,

Morning here in Cape Town so will be doing more testing today. As you may have read @Andykong has confirmed The N3 does NOT support aptX in receive mode, and my own contact at Cayin has confirmed the same. This means when you use the N3 as a wireless DAC it uses the lower quality SBC codec, and you're therefore not getting anywhere near 'cd quality' transport of your music files from your cellphone or computer via the N3. It also means using your N3 as a portable transport for getting Tidal or Spotify high-res (or even high quality) music to your N3 is a no-go.

To me this is extremely disappointing, and as you can see in the quote above (from one of the original Cayin support posts on this thread) aptX was touted as a far superior codec and it was inferred the N3 supported aptX in its bi-directional transmission. This is now NOT the case, which leaves a bad taste as it was one of the clinching factors for me personally.

I'm slightly encouraged by @Andykong suggesting they may fix this issue in firmware - and given the N3 supports aptX transmission, the hardware must be in place to do so. If not, it's a big minus, irrespective of whether or not you think it's a major feature, purely because it was promoted as a major feature by Cayin itself.

I also find it odd that Cayin would include support for using the N3 as a USB DAC (again promoted as a major feature) and then give you a cable that doesn't allow it to be used as such. Given the difference in price between a charging only USB cable and a bidirectional cable is maybe $1-$2, that's completely bizarre. It's akin to selling a car with windows but then selling the window winders separately. What gives?

Those are the two big negatives I've picked out so far, which for some would admittedly be irrelevant but they set a dangerous precedent. Hopefully the good people at Cayin will realise the error of their ways and fix the aptX problem in the next FW release. As with the cable, I'll just go buy one at the shops shall I...

More to follow.

G

Greetings, a small surprise as this is probably my first exchanges with HeadFier from Cape Town.

I have discussed with John earlier this morning and he showed me your message, so John's reply will definitely in line with my statements here as we work closely as partners and make sure we are on the same page when we response to our customers.

Although this is our exchanges on Cayin products, I notice you are a fair and open-minded person, so I can try to be frank with you as well. The tone of the forum is fairly tense at the moment and my casual response might be cross-examined under 10x magnifying glass by users with very different experience and agenda, I have to play conservative in view of that, this is not ideal and far from my original intention, but I don't have a choice so please pardon if I slow down suddenly when responding to to quotes and questions.

I have missed quite a number of internal meetings because of frequent travelings in past few months, so its not a surprised that if I have missed some of the details of our products. We are examining the feasibility of dual apt-X in since early May (while I was traveling at Taiwan), we do not have a definite answer to the issue right now, and even when it is technically feasible, we still need to evaluate the cost of development, priority and scheduling before we have a green light. We'll come back with definitely answers, but it a green light or a red light, but this will take some time.

I am looking forwards to your review on N3, especially actual audition impression of the scenario you have mentioned: using the N3 as a portable transport for getting Tidal or Spotify high-res from a mobile phone to N3. I assume you'll compare the Tidal or spotify playback from mobile phone against the wireless connection to N3 from the same mobile phone. I can conduct similar test in our factory but customers can't take our words as-is for obvious reason. Feedback from an impartial third party will be more appropriate IMHO.

So please come back and share your findings and audition experience with us, I am sure I am not the only one waiting for that.

 

[gLer]

Hi Andy!

Greetings, a small surprise as this is probably my first exchanges with HeadFier from Cape Town.

I have discussed with John earlier this morning and he showed me your message, so John's reply will definitely in line with my statements here as we work closely as partners and make sure we are on the same page when we response to our customers.

Although this is our exchanges on Cayin products, I notice you are a fair and open-minded person, so I can try to be frank with you as well. The tone of the forum is fairly tense at the moment and my casual response might be cross-examined under 10x magnifying glass by users with very different experience and agenda, I have to play conservative in view of that, this is not ideal and far from my original intention, but I don't have a choice so please pardon if I slow down suddenly when responding to to quotes and questions.

I have missed quite a number of internal meetings because of frequent travelings in past few months, so its not a surprised that if I have missed some of the details of our products. We are examining the feasibility of dual apt-X in since early May (while I was traveling at Taiwan), we do not have a definite answer to the issue right now, and even when it is technically feasible, we still need to evaluate the cost of development, priority and scheduling before we have a green light. We'll come back with definitely answers, but it a green light or a red light, but this will take some time.

I am looking forwards to your review on N3, especially actual audition impression of the scenario you have mentioned: using the N3 as a portable transport for getting Tidal or Spotify high-res from a mobile phone to N3. I assume you'll compare the Tidal or spotify playback from mobile phone against the wireless connection to N3 from the same mobile phone. I can conduct similar test in our factory but customers can't take our words as-is for obvious reason. Feedback from an impartial third party will be more appropriate IMHO.

So please come back and share your findings and audition experience with us, I am sure I am not the only one waiting for that.

You and John have been only kind and very responsive, so I hope you take anything I say or suggest in the constructive manner that I intend it. Since the N3 is my first ever DAP (unless you consider the iPod or iPhone a true DAP, which I don't), I'm discovering new and amazing things every day - and the great people on this forum have been nothing but helpful. I've learned so much just by reading through 130+ pages on this thread alone!

I will certainly keep you posted on my findings, even though the whole Tidal/Spotify tests might prove difficult since these services aren't readily available in my country as far as I know. Will definitely test the N3's wireless DAC capabilities, and A/B them against other devices (like the Sound Blaster E3 and E5 DACs - both of which feature aptX reception). My main line of testing, however, will be sound quality using good lossless (and high-res) source files to good wired headphones like the two B&Ws that I own.

First round of testing starts tonight...can't wait! Thanks again for all your insight and input, and look forward to your feedback (public or private) on the issues raised here and outside of this forum.

Best regards to you and John.

 

[BrianD19]

That's because I was focused on questions and discussion on page 111- page 120. I have to be systematic otherwise I'll never be able to cover all the posts effectively.

Yes, based on my personal experience, gapless works very well with the N3, I can't hear the gap with the live concert albums I have.

By the way, its difficult and probably unreasonable to insist waiting for me to respond to each and every questions promptly. I am doing the best I could to get involved but this is not always feasible, and the time different is making it difficult .... by the way, this is 1:09 am when I respond to your post.

Thanks for the clarification.

Just for the record. I've been asking generally about gapless playback for some time and have mentioned you only once ( a couple of hours ago ) in the posts I've made about the N3 and the i5. I do not insist you reply to anything and I appreciate it when you do post information on the Cayin products.

 

[nmatheis]

I have seen complaint on the ear-cup of 99Classic is a bit too small and if you have big ears then you'll find it slightly uncomfortable. My ears happen to fit into the 99Classic pretty well, so that works out already. I was told Meze has designed a slightly bigger ear-cup.

I was a vocal proponent of larger pads and refused to buy 99 Classics until larger pads were available. When I tried at RMAF, The larger pads were available for audition. Fit me so much better they I bought a pair of 99 Classics to take home.

I really need someone to confirm gapless actually works on the N3.

My understanding is most DAPs have a gapless on/off option but it can't be taken for granted it works even when set to on. I will prefer to return the N3 unopened than opening it and discovering what I am starting to worry is inevitable, that gapless play does not work.

As an aside, I don't know why gapless exists as an option, any device should simply playback as intended in the album. If there are gaps then you get a gap. No gaps and you don't get gaps. Seems straightforward really. Why would anyone playing an album produced with no gaps between tracks introduce gaps? Can anyone shed any light on what this is all about?

I'm pretty sure I've answered this over the course of the thread at least once. Sucks that the "search inside threads" feature is no longer available. Gapless works just fine for me.

Well, the next firmware is just round the corner, so stay tuned.

Nice!

Geez. Chill. It's only been an hour since your last post. Yes, gapless works perfectly fine with the N3.

Thanks for the clarification.

Just for the record. I've been asking generally about gapless playback for some time and have mentioned you only once ( a couple of hours ago ) in the posts I've made about the N3 and the i5. I do not insist you reply to anything and I appreciate it when you do post information on the Cayin products.

Please play nice, guys. I want this to be a friendly thread