Cayin i5 Lossless Android DAP with AKM4490 DAC supporting 32/384 PCM + 64/128 DSD

[Septimus]

If you are referring to the video/audio synchronization problem, or a common issue known as lip-sync, the issue have been discussed previously, if you search YouTube in the "Search This Thread" function, you should be able to check out previous discussion on this topic. I have provided one of my reply to the lip-sync issue for your reference.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/802382/cayin-i5-lossless-android-dap-with-akm4490-dac-supporting-32-384-pcm-64-128-dsd/1335#post_12877550

Using i5 in DAC mode will increase the magnitude of the lip-sync problem because the video and audio are now decoded by two different devices and there is no centralized clock in the system to control and synchronization any function across the platform.

The quickest option is to introduce a buffer function to slow down the faster device so that it will synchronize with the slower device. From what I observed, the video is always the faster device and the i5 DAC is always the slower device, so the proper way out is to add a buffer in the video device instead of try to ask the i5 DAC to speed up in order to synchronize with the video. In fact, some of the smart TV has provided similar function already as the lip syn problem will always occurs when the video and audio are processed by different device.

For the record, i5 is a digital audio player and we have not listed any video playback or support feature in our product description.

Hey,
first of all thank you for the answer!
Im totally aware that there may be some slight unsync, but im actually talking about a delay which may be about one second.
It also worked perfectly well before the incident i discribed.
i have tried all the buffer options in the cayin driver program from fastest to safest but it didnt make any difference in my case.
this delay does also occur when i play video games (which also worked great using the i5 before) so it shouldnt be caused by youtube or
videos in general.
and of course the i5 is an audio player before everything else and works amazing as such.
but still, it did everything else just as good before but now there is this delay.

 

[Andykong]

Hey,
first of all thank you for the answer!
Im totally aware that there may be some slight unsync, but im actually talking about a delay which may be about one second.
It also worked perfectly well before the incident i discribed.
i have tried all the buffer options in the cayin driver program from fastest to safest but it didnt make any difference in my case.
this delay does also occur when i play video games (which also worked great using the i5 before) so it shouldnt be caused by youtube or
videos in general.
and of course the i5 is an audio player before everything else and works amazing as such.
but still, it did everything else just as good before but now there is this delay.

We have received numerous customer query regarding the audio and video synchronization issue ever since we have released the v2.0 firmware, the USB DAC mode indeed has increased the delay to a higher magnitude. I am surprised that the synchronization was satisfactory at some point.

Let's forget about the symptom for the moment, if you believe the crash is causing some problems to your i5, can you please describe the crash in more detail? What is the state of the machine during the crash? playing music? using third party application? in USB DAC mode? I can't comment on the RESULT of a crash until I know the detail of the crash.

Theoretically if the crash has caused certain software problem, a double wipe will reset the i5 to its initial status and all software issues should be rectified. I hope the crash is not bad enough to cause some hardware failure, that would be unbelievable and disastrous.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/802382/cayin-i5-lossless-android-dap-with-akm4490-dac-supporting-32-384-pcm-64-128-dsd/1515#post_12914300

 

[Septimus]

We have received numerous customer query regarding the audio and video synchronization issue ever since we have released the v2.0 firmware, the USB DAC mode indeed has increased the delay to a higher magnitude. I am surprised that the synchronization was satisfactory at some point.

Let's forget about the symptom for the moment, if you believe the crash is causing some problems to your i5, can you please describe the crash in more detail? What is the state of the machine during the crash? playing music? using third party application? in USB DAC mode? I can't comment on the RESULT of a crash until I know the detail of the crash.

Theoretically if the crash has caused certain software problem, a double wipe will reset the i5 to its initial status and all software issues should be rectified. I hope the crash is not bad enough to cause some hardware failure, that would be unbelievable and disastrous.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/802382/cayin-i5-lossless-android-dap-with-akm4490-dac-supporting-32-384-pcm-64-128-dsd/1515#post_12914300

as i remember it was not only satisfactory but actually flawless.
i was in dac mode connected to my pc.
i think i was playing dark souls 3 or something and tryed to tab out which was followed by the game not reacting anymore.
after that and dis/reconnecting the i5 the sound was delayed.
then two days later i was at a friends house and we used the i5 again and it worked flawless again so i first thought that the driver on my home pc may just have some sort of malfunction.
but then after some time (i think i disconnected the i5 from the pc and connected it again) the delay was there again.
and after that i didnt get it to work without the delay anymore
even when connecting it to a whole other pc.
by the way, sometimes when beeing in dac mode i can still operate the i5 normally (maybe just another little bug or maybe this is somehow connected).
i cant really make out any logical problem as any software problems should have been fixed by the double wipe/another fresh pc used and hardware damage shouldnt really be an option at all from what occured.

 

[McCol]

  So how good is the wifi on this player? I would use it as a DLNA player streaming lossless audio up to 24bit 96k Wirelessly. Any wifi interfearance? Does Tidal work well on it? Any type of auto donwsampling when you use the EQ?

 
I had the I5 and the WiFi did not work for me.  Thought it may have been a faulty unit but the 2nd unit was just the same.  Sometimes it would work with Spotify other times it wouldn't.  Forget streaming those lossless files, wouldn't stream over my network, wouldn't stream any radio apps either.
 
I'm pretty sure that Cayin have said that they reduced the Wifi signal to help reduce RFI - this is a good move but I fear here in the UK that it is turned down too much.  All my router settings were fine as the same functions work ok on my phone, plus they don't work on friends wifi networks either.
 
If you want the player and not use the advertised streaming services then it is a lovely sounding player that easily outperforms most in it's price range but it is buggy, slow and not without numerous other issues.
 
I've gone back to Phone/Dac combo which is far more reliable. 

 

[twister6]

McCol Sounds like you made it your mission to stay in this thread even after selling your i5 to warn everyone about your own personal experience with this dap

I don't have a premium Spotify service, but never experienced any of the problems you mentioned. Also, surprised nobody else is as vocal about the same problems. Maybe it's just your luck?

 

[McCol]

@McCol Sounds like you made it your mission to stay in this thread even after selling your i5 to warn everyone about your own personal experience with this dap

I don't have a premium Spotify service, but never experienced any of the problems you mentioned. Also, surprised nobody else is as vocal about the same problems. Maybe it's just your luck?

 
No mission here twister6!  
 
There were others in here who reported similar problems but the Cayin love-in here has drowned us out

  
 
I only gave an honest opinion to a question posed by someone asking about the WiFi.  Like I say I'm not the only one to experience this as has been acknowledged by Andykong and the issue around lowered wifi signal.  
 
In my defense I have also said all along that the sound quality from this player is stellar and outperforms most DAP's that I've owned under the £700 price bracket.
 
Sorry my opinions and experience of the player don't fit in with the thread. I'll stay away now seeing as I no longer own the product.

 

[esm87]

How does the sound compare to mojo? I have a mojo but am considering selling it and replacing with either the new ifi micro black or the i5 as it streams Tidal.

Thoughts? This is a very nice looking dap, the c5 amp is awesome which I own which would be paired also

 

[Hawaiibadboy]

   
Sorry my opinions and experience of the player don't fit in with the thread. I'll stay away now seeing as I no longer own the product.

 That would be a shame. Your experience is as legit as the next and you paid for yours and that has weight. Financial investment and not feeling satisfied.
Cayin receives no benefit from a pseudo appreciation thread which this site explicitly states not to put in thread titles so folks who are not like minded still feel comfortable expressing their views.
 
Stay real for real's sake.
 
@esm87
 
Bro i thought it was detail rich like the mojo with a stage very similar. Not iFi wide but that width is sometimes close to thin sounding. (original iDSD not sure about black)

 

[twister6]

 

   
Sorry my opinions and experience of the player don't fit in with the thread. I'll stay away now seeing as I no longer own the product.

 That would be a shame. Your experience is as legit as the next and you paid for yours and that has weight. Financial investment and not feeling satisfied.
Cayin receives no benefit from a pseudo appreciation thread which this site explicitly states not to put in thread titles so folks who are not like minded still feel comfortable expressing their views.
 
Stay real for real's sake.
 
@esm87

 
Yep, that's exactly what head-fi is all about!  You have to express your opinion, positive or negative, because it will help others who might be dealing with the same problem or will help potential buyers who are trying to decide which dap to choose.  I also think it's a good idea to write a review, even if it's short, to list all your Pros and Cons.  Review gets a lot more visibility when people are searching for a product, rather than digging through thousands of replies and hundreds of pages

 

[Hawaiibadboy]

   
Yep, that's exactly what head-fi is all about!  You have to express your opinion, positive or negative, because it will help others who might be dealing with the same problem or will help potential buyers who are trying to decide which dap to choose.  I also think it's a good idea to write a review, even if it's short, to list all your Pros and Cons.  Review gets a lot more visibility when people are searching for a product, rather than digging through thousands of replies and hundreds of pages

 I second that.
 
Write a review McCol and it will last until the end of days and you don't have to repeat yourself. Lotta winning right there

 

[esm87]

Hawaiibadboy cheers for the insight on i5, you know, I was sat on the bed last night having a fifa sesh, pm4's plugged into mojo c5 stack playing Tidal latest playlists of hip hop and R&B. Here's the thing, that music just sounded so damn good. I mean it was real cleand sounding, crisp but you could really feel the tones of the bass. This is bit lerfect playback, I kept getting surprised on various songs.

As I was distracted playing fifa online, I really think that helped me totally relax and enjoy the music quality at a deeper level than sat there doing nothing with earphones. Listening felt effortless so to speak.

Anybody else find that they also have similar experiences? I bet an i5 and c5 stack would go really nice, especially both being cayin.

Seen 3 daps and an amp/dac this last week, 1 of which don't do streaming yet looks real nice. This i5 I may give it a go stacked with c5 pending on reviews of the other dap and amp/dac.

Anybody stacking c5/i5 with good results?

 

[Andykong]

So how good is the wifi on this player? I would use it as a DLNA player streaming lossless audio up to 24bit 96k Wirelessly. Any wifi interfearance? Does Tidal work well on it? Any type of auto donwsampling when you use the EQ?

(1) May I ask when you want to use the DAP as a DLNA player, are you streaming from a NAS as the library (source)? This should works fine as I have tested the i5 with my home NAS and I can stream up to 24bit/96kHz alright, once I go beyond that, 24bit/176.4kHz and DSD64 will playback with occasional drop out. One of the i5 tour reviewer has tested the DLNA function and I shall quote his impression as follow:

I have a personal cloud which support DLNA streaming, and while setting it, Cayin found the server almost immediately after pressing search button.
Then, I just player the selected music by browsing through those folders on my server.
Everthyhing is smooth.

(2) The WiFI interference in i5 is minimal, a lot of users reported that they don't hear have any interference problem when listening through WiFi connection. On the other hand, the WiFi strength of i5 is under-powered when compare to a mobile phone, we have user reported that he have to be within 25' of the router to keep a great connection

(3) Streaming with Tidal has received very mixed response, and Cayin acknowledged that this is a problem that we shall investigate and improve. The magnitude of the problem varied a great deal among different users, we don't know the root cause of the variation, but the different is too significant then just different perception of the same level of a problem. I have listed some of the user's respond on the Tidal user below for your reference.

• "stuttering in most songs, sometimes song just fades away then after I lose sound on all tracks";
• "constant micro stuttering both in offline and online mode";
• "low-level intermittent micro stuttering";
• "i had no issues w/ tidal stutter though";
• "stream Tidal lossless successfully";
• "Tidal seems to be working pretty well. Streams are flawless and I only very rarely have any stuttering when playing offline"

(4) EQ in i5 does not involve auto donwsampling, but our EQ will only apply to PCM format at 48kHz or below, and we don't support DSD on our EQ function.

 

[Andykong]

Hi, I get Cayin i5.

I use this for almost a week, I am pleased with sound quality.

But my i5 crashes 3 times a day.

I doubt my micro sd card(TEAM 128GB).

What "File System" do you recommend? FAT32?exFAT?

If the crashes always happen during SD card access, then the TF card might be an issue we need to investigate. If you have another TF card, maybe you can try to switch to different card for a few days and see what happens.

i5 supports both FAT32 and exFAT satisfactory. May I suggest you try to Optimize and Defragment the TF card? or perform a surface scan on the TF card?

 

[Andykong]

Hi, my main problem is that when playing iso file, the tracks are not in sequence. Is it related with the hiby?

Any music player that can play iso recommended without the above problem ?

Thanks indeed.

When i5 break off an ISO file, it should display the tracks title according to track number, and if track title is no available in the ISO file, then i5 will display Track 1, Track 2, Track 3, ... on the screen. Is this what happening with our ISO file playback?

Can you PM me the screen shot of the ISO file with the tracks not in sequence, and the url of the SACD so that I can cross check against the original track list. I'll try to work out the logic behind wrong sequence.

 

[Andykong]

as i remember it was not only satisfactory but actually flawless.
i was in dac mode connected to my pc.
i think i was playing dark souls 3 or something and tryed to tab out which was followed by the game not reacting anymore.
after that and dis/reconnecting the i5 the sound was delayed.
then two days later i was at a friends house and we used the i5 again and it worked flawless again so i first thought that the driver on my home pc may just have some sort of malfunction.
but then after some time (i think i disconnected the i5 from the pc and connected it again) the delay was there again.
and after that i didnt get it to work without the delay anymore
even when connecting it to a whole other pc.
by the way, sometimes when beeing in dac mode i can still operate the i5 normally (maybe just another little bug or maybe this is somehow connected).
i cant really make out any logical problem as any software problems should have been fixed by the double wipe/another fresh pc used and hardware damage shouldnt really be an option at all from what occured.

This indeed sound strange, so the i5 has "crashed" or "disconnected" twice in two different PC, the problem has repeated at least one time.

So the sequence of the events are:
(1) i5 works flawlessly on Compute system A
(2) Dis/Reconnect, i5 sound was delayed
(3) i5 works flawlessly on Computer system B
(4) Dis/Reconnect, i5 sound was delay
(5) Change back to Computer System A, sound was delayed
(6) Change to other Computer Systems, sound was delayed.
(7) Double wipe, sound was delayed

If my understanding is correct, I really can't make any sense out of it. (2) and (3) has almost eliminated a hardware problem, and (7) should eliminated a software problem.

The only thing I can offer at this stage is to pass the case to our tech. support and ask them to lab the case of "repeated dis/reconnect during USB DAC mode" and keep the finger cross that they can repeat the delay problem after several trial.