Cayin i5 Lossless Android DAP with AKM4490 DAC supporting 32/384 PCM + 64/128 DSD

[McCol]

I am surprised the issue of streaming resurfaced again in such a short time. I was hoping that my previous statement has explained the situation clearly, and that was only 2 weeks ago? So how often should I report to the group about the firmware development progress? Weekly? or Daily?

For those who join this discussion recently, please take a look on Cayin's explanation regarding the streaming issue:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/802382/cayin-i5-lossless-android-dap-with-akm4490-dac-supporting-32-384-pcm-64-128-dsd/1920#post_12994031

Cayin has acknowledged the problem, but at the same time we also observed that the description of the problem ranged from "stuttering in most songs, sometimes song just fades away then after I lose sound on all tracks" to "constant micro stuttering both in offline and online mode", "low-level intermittent micro stuttering" and "i had no issues w/ tidal stutter though".

If I have to provide my own observation of using Tidal (HiFi quality) with i5, I would describe that as micro stuttering that happens 1-2 times per song, I can hear it if I look for it, but it is not obvious and won't get into my way in normal listening. We have reason to believe that the magnitude of the problem varied a great deal, we don't know the root cause of the variation, but the different is too significant then just different perception of the same level of a problem.

Please give us some room to work on it. I am not sure if this can be resolved eventually, but raising the issue again and again and again and again after Cayin has formally acknowledged the problem is not constructive.

As of MoCol's suggestion:
Let me put it this way, if you can ask Spotify to advertise their service as low-quality streaming or they only provide streaming service for low quality files, then I have no problem to follow suit in our product description. Otherwise I do not see the point to single out Cayin regartding the streaming service description.

 
Replied via PM.  

 

[Andykong]

But


But the cable is very expensive like $60 and very long! I want a portable configuration. If only Cayin can post the pinout graph of their USB Type C port. I can make a custom cable by myself.

Cayin has gone through 4 rounds of prototype before we can find the lowest cost solution to build the Type-C to RCA Coaxial cable. We start with a lower budget and gradually works our way up in order to get something that works well, I have enclosed the first and second prototype for your reference:



Cayin make these cable to expand the connectivity of i5 (and our subsequent Type-C based DAP), we hope our customers can utilize their DAP to full extend, we do make profit out of the cable, but not significant when you consider the MoQ and operation overhead required to deal with these cables, and I believe we are not on the expensive side when compare to other after-market cables.

We can certainly disclose the pin-out of the USB Type-C, and I can provide the basic instruction for yoru reference.
We welcome users to DIY their cable solution if they have the resource and time for that. Here we go:



This is the standard pin-out diagram of Type-C, pin A8 and B8 are NOT USED for USB, so they are not allocated in normal application, and Cayin used this pin to transmit S/PDIF signal.

Normal Type C connectors are extremely difficult to because the pin are hided inside the connectors, and they were designed to factory fit by automated machines. You need to find special connectors that has all the pins extended to a small PCB. Make sure you check with the seller that pin A8 and B8 have been extended to the PCB before you pay for it, because these two pin are not used for USB, quite a lot of custom connectors will ignore these two pins.




Once you find the appropriate connector, the first thing you should do is to hard wired between A8 and B8, as illustrated below:



Then you should prepare your coaxial cable as follows, around 1.5cm bare connectors should be good enough for subsequent jobs. If you are new to DIY, we recommend you to cut off one RCA connector of a ready-make coaxial cable for this project, this will make sure you have the right kind of cable and you only need to work on one connectors, with the RAC connectors untouched. We also suggest you to put a heat-shrinkable tube into the coaxial cable before you start the soldering work.



You can now solder the coaxial cable to the A8 pin, and then the ground shielding to the ground pin of the PCB



Just heat up the heat-shrinkable tube to protect the connector, or better still install a USB connector cover if you can find that as well.





This cable is finished and ready for testing:

 

[farizki29]

What is the firmware that you are using right now? The OTG connection should be fairly stable and this is the first time I have encountered a problem. Can you bring the i5 and your OTB storage to the retail and check if your OTG storage can work with other i5 at the shop?

I used firmware v2.0
I already go to the retail shop for warranty claim and have new i5 replacement but still have same issue with USB OTG, also i tried with other USB OTG cable.

FYI, i try this with USB FLASH DRIVE (working fine in my Android phone) not HDD.

Update: I buy USB C card reader and it was find (problem solved).

 

[Joseph Lin]

 

But


But the cable is very expensive like $60 and very long! I want a portable configuration. If only Cayin can post the pinout graph of their USB Type C port. I can make a custom cable by myself.

Cayin has gone through 4 rounds of prototype before we can find the lowest cost solution to build the Type-C to RCA Coaxial cable. We start with a lower budget and gradually works our way up in order to get something that works well, I have enclosed the first and second prototype for your reference:
 

 
I can't believe Andy and Cayin is so generous and gracious to provide us the Pinout and detailed instructions! I was about to reverse engineer to find out the pins, totally unprepared to see this detailed instructions, appreciate and happy thanksgiving!

 

[linux4ever]

Cayin has gone through 4 rounds of prototype before we can find the lowest cost solution to build the Type-C to RCA Coaxial cable. We start with a lower budget and gradually works our way up in order to get something that works well, I have enclosed the first and second prototype for your reference:

Thank you for the detailed images on DIY. In the above photo, the cable on the left seems to be what would fit the Mojo. Am I right? The one that was provided with the tour unit didn't fit the MOJO. What is that cable? Can you provide some more details on it?
 
Happy Thanksgiving to all!!

 

[Muniek66]

Hi everyone,
 
I have two questions:
 
1. If Cayin i5 can work as external DAC for Android devices (by OTG) or only for Windows/Mac?
2. Can be used as bluetooth receiver/adapter? (stream music from laptop to DAP)

 

[ngoshawk]

Question: How do I sign out of the Google Play Store on the i5? In anticipation of shipping to the next in line, I want to clear all of my data. I cannot figure out how to sign out on the i5, though...

Thank you in advance.

 

[Andykong]

Question: How do I sign out of the Google Play Store on the i5? In anticipation of shipping to the next in line, I want to clear all of my data. I cannot figure out how to sign out on the i5, though...

Thank you in advance.

I recommend you perform a Double Wipe before you send off the unit to next reviewer, this will remove all your personal data and Application temp data, and let the next review to start from fresh. In fact, I do recommend a double wipe even when personal data is not an issue, sometimes removing an app does not necessary remove everything from the device and if these App data/Folders will accumulate after 3-4 reviewers, the last reviewer in the leg will be affected.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/802382/cayin-i5-lossless-android-dap-with-akm4490-dac-supporting-32-384-pcm-64-128-dsd/1515#post_12914300

 

[Andykong]

I can't believe Andy and Cayin is so generous and gracious to provide us the Pinout and detailed instructions! I was about to reverse engineer to find out the pins, totally unprepared to see this detailed instructions, appreciate and happy thanksgiving!

Well, the Type-C to RCA coaxial able were mean to help i5 users to utilize their DAP the best they could, if sharing the pin-out and instruction will also serve this purpose, we won't hesitate to do that.

I hope you can locate the appropriate Type-C connectors, we had a hard time to go through dozen of hardware shops before we find the right connector for the DIY experiment.

Please come back and show us your DIY cable, that should be a fun update to the online i5 community.

 

[Andykong]

Thank you for the detailed images on DIY. In the above photo, the cable on the left seems to be what would fit the Mojo. Am I right? The one that was provided with the tour unit didn't fit the MOJO. What is that cable? Can you provide some more details on it?

Happy Thanksgiving to all!!

Yes, that's the prototype we build to try out i5/Mojo pairing, its works alright but we find out that using L-connectors will serve portable application better, but we can't find a cable workshop taking bulk order with L-shape Type-C connector, and the MoQ has exceed our expectation, so we didn't move on for that.

The DIY process will be similar to the coaxial cable example I quoted earlier. The only different is to use 3.5mm connectors instead of RCA and we recommend a total length of 12cm-15cm only (connectors included).

Theoretically you only need to use 3.5 TS connector (aka mono type connectors) because Coaxial connection only required two contact points (Data at Tips, Ground at Sleeve), but since TS connector is not as popular, its OK to use the more widely available 3.5mm TRS connector too, simply connect data to Tips, Ground to sleeve, and leave the Ring not connected.

 

[Andykong]

Hi everyone,

I have two questions:

1. If Cayin i5 can work as external DAC for Android devices (by OTG) or only for Windows/Mac?
2. Can be used as bluetooth receiver/adapter? (stream music from laptop to DAP)

Someone in this thread have tried Android tablet OTG to i5 and works alright, we have tested several Android devices but the result is mixed, not all Android OTG will work faultlessly, so we cannot guarantee 100% compatibility at this point.

The BT is designed to work with Bluetooth speaker and headphones, it was not mean to work as BT receiver.

 

[Andykong]

Is this something like the one in FIIO DAPs? Unfortunately I can't try it to see as the unit has been shipped to the next reviewer. If it's something like in FIIO, then it plays all the songs in the folder before moving onto the next folder. That's a limited workaround. On Android, many music apps, allow "play all". The user can stay at the top folder and hit "play all" and with random play enabled, it picks song1 from folder1 and then the next song from folder n. thus it mixes and matches nicely.

If the "Play though folders" does it on I5, then It is good. If not, may I suggest to add this feature at your earliest convenience.

I got two USB type C to micro usb female OTG adapter from Meenova and when I hooked up I5 through this to Chord Mojo, the audio output from my earphones were degraded a lot. Lots of scratching, hissing and the audio was painful to hear. I'm not sure if this was with the adapter (it is less likely that both the adapters would behave in the same way). May be you might want to try it out and see how it works out for you. If it's bad, then it needs to be fixed.

I've used I5 with multiple IEMs and will post my impressions on Sunday. I'll be out during the thanksgiving weekend with limited access to internet.

Yes, play through folder do exactly what you have described, it plays all the songs in the folder before moving onto the next folder.

We have enabled USB Audio IN (i.e., USB DAC) in v2.0 firmware, but the USB Audio Out (i.e., USB OTG digital output) is pending, we targeted to enable this service in next firmware update.

So from other angle, you have reported a bug to me: the USB OTG digital out should be silent at this point, the fact that it can play music (with distortion, I know ) is a bug.

 

[Andykong]

I can't. But Andy already posted it was on Taobao, but that link is dead

The Taobao link for that cable is as follow:
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.15.MDuw1E&id=39551072458&ns=1&abbucket=6#detail

They have multiple option, including the short 3.5mm L-connector MOJO version and the short 3.5mm L-connector HUGO version, they are selling these short coaxial cable at $228 (RMB)

There is another brand called Music Haven offering a short type C to 3.5mm coaxial cable for i5/Mojo, but they are fairly expensive:
https://world.tmall.com/item/536239208271.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.13.zMcYUS&id=536239208271&cm_id=140105335569ed55e27b&abbucket=6&sku_properties=1627207:1398131803

 

[Andykong]

In continuing my testing with my own Cabin I5 (Firmware 2.0). I am getting some anomalies after 1 hr of continuous use the screen freezes but I can still use the controls. Is becoming very common.Not sure if it's a bug or something in the OS cache that is creating this

Also on OEM after multiple sessions with a set of IEM's

UM Martian to get good volume I need to be in High Gain and volume at 32 same effect occurred with

Inear SD 4s Low gain and volume at 25

Fitear 334 Low gain and Volume at 25

HUM Pristine low gain and Volume at 20

I found the HUM, the OEM that pairs the best, music felt with a lot of more power and range. Like it could extract from the Cabin everything it could give

I used a standard set of 10 songs to compare

All IEM's equipped with spin fits and stock cables

Thanks for the update. I have the Martian 2+2 and I like it with i5. I was told the SD4 and SD4s work very well with i5 too, but if HUM Pristine sounds better then these two in your opinion, I must try to get hold of this and give it a try.

 

[Andykong]

Yes, you are right. I do have a M1, however, M1 is not able to stream music from my NAS and wireless drives. I have zero desire to listen to M1 alone, it is too thin. It is loud but thin. Connecting it to E12 makes it sound several times better (comparable to i5 but of a little inferior to i5) makes me wonder why I would need an i5.

I like "bit perfect" sound(just kidding) and I want to listen to music with my T1 when I am away from my desk. I only have a Mojo that is capable of driving T1 without my desktop gears.

I did a little experiment by connecting i5 lineout to Fiio E12 and it opens up the sound stage a lot, even with my low end sony ear plug! That is a surprise to me. Every note seems to go further, deeper and with a lot of body and depth. The only problem is E12 is only barely able to drive T1.

Today is thanksgiving day, why not give yourselves a treat.

Take a look on Cayin C5, it is not expensive and can handle a lot of big headphone pretty well. In terms of audio performance, this is the item that make Cayin well-received in HeadFi, not joking, its that good.

https://shop.musicteck.com/collections/cayin/products/cayin-c5-portable-hifi-audio-headphone-amplifier

http://www.theevolutionofsound.com/cayin/