Cayin i5 Lossless Android DAP with AKM4490 DAC supporting 32/384 PCM + 64/128 DSD

[McCol]

   
I remember, you mentioned with lossless streaming of Tidal, right?  If that's someones *only* top priority in a DAP, perhaps they should wait for Cayin/Hiby/Tidal resolution of whatever buffering problem there is or just get USB DAC/amp to accompany their smartphone.  For me personally, I think it's a plus that i5 didn't put too much effort into full Android interface and rather has it as an add-on to run some apps like a basic Spotify which streams perfectly (especially convenient with a wireless speaker) and saves my Note 4 battery

  Plus, you can play a few Solitaire games while you at it.
 
Btw, in THIS post you mentioned that Tidal is not your high priority and you don't even have a subscription.  Does it mean if I get Tidal demo, I will be able to hear the issue?  Could it be the limitation of a trial/demo version of Tidal you are running?  You know how some apps try to cripple the free version with ads just so you can upgrade it to a premium version

 
It is only the trial version of Tidal however it works fine on both Android smartphones and Apple phones, I've tried them both in the last few days.  I don't think it's merely a Tidal issue as it happened with other services that were not lossless.  I know I'm not the only one who's experienced this in this thread.  Streaming over the home network is also problematic if trying anything above 320mp3 files.
 
I get your point about Tidal not being a deal breaker for some - it isn't for me, can't see me paying £20 a month for a streamng service, however I would like to use services such as streaming over my home network or certain lossy radio services that it suffers with.  
 
I've said before and I'll say it again - SQ wise this player is excellent, better to my ears than both the Onkyo X1 and the Fiio X7 but if you are going to sell something that claims to offer Android with Wifi streaming etc etc at least make it work or advertise it as a device that has limited straming abilities!
 
Spoke to AMP3 on the basis that maybe I have a faulty unit but then that would mean so does everybody else who has wifi issues.  It seems a simple enough problem - song track counter starts but music is delayed by a few seconds, this must be leading to the pops and drop-outs.
 
I might sound awkward over this but when you pay £400 for a set of features you expect them to work as advertised.  The cloud access claims on Cayin's website are inaccurate due to this issue.  

 

[Ultrainferno]

I've been streaming Tidal for hours now, not once have I had a hickup or issue. Just saying.

 

[McCol]

I've been streaming Tidal for hours now, not once have I had a hickup or issue. Just saying.

That's good to hear, must be faulty units then.

 

[McCol]

I've been streaming Tidal for hours now, not once have I had a hickup or issue. Just saying.

Streaming hifi I assume

 

[Ultrainferno]

Streaming hifi I assume

 
yup. HIFI

 

[McCol]

yup. HIFI

That's good, I'll just return my faulty one for exchange or repair.
Must be a faulty batch.

 

[nmatheis]

I still don't get why you would connect the i5 to the Mojo. If you only need a digital signal to feed the Mojo what's the purpose of the i5?
A smaller transport like the M1 would be the better choice then,

If just more power is needed why not take pure amp?

Agree. If you have MOJO, I'd suggest phone for streaming since you can stream over WiFi or cell data, and I'd suggest M1 for DAP transport for its tiny size and simple user interface.

IMHO i5 is best as standalone DAP or amped as needed for more power. Cayin C5 is a good portable amp if you do need more power. Just be careful if you use C5 with IEM due to just how powerful the C5 is.

 

[bavinck]

Agree. If you have MOJO, I'd suggest phone for streaming since you can stream over WiFi or cell data, and I'd suggest M1 for DAP transport for its tiny size and simple user interface.

IMHO i5 is best as standalone DAP or amped as needed for more power. Cayin C5 is a good portable amp if you do need more power. Just be careful if you use C5 with IEM due to just how powerful the C5 is.

How is the i5 with nighthawks?

 

[Ziggomatic]

Sorry if this has been discussed previously, but I just started using a third-party app (Pandora), and there doesn't seem to be a good way to exit or close it without using the "advanced task killer" button, which stops everything. Nothing happens when I touch the recent apps button. I can see the app running in notifications, but I can't close it that way either (e.g. by swiping to the right). Am I missing something?

 

[nmatheis]

How is the i5 with nighthawks?

Let me check this weekend while I'm testing out the HM5 pads...

 

[bavinck]

Let me check this weekend while I'm testing out the HM5 pads...

You still haven't hit those pads up??? ;p

 

[nmatheis]

You still haven't hit those pads up??? ;p

I was trying to see if MattTCG would explode, lol

 

[bavinck]

I was trying to see if MattTCG would explode, lol

 

[Andykong]

I remember, you mentioned with lossless streaming of Tidal, right?  If that's someones *only* top priority in a DAP, perhaps they should wait for Cayin/Hiby/Tidal resolution of whatever buffering problem there is or just get USB DAC/amp to accompany their smartphone.  For me personally, I think it's a plus that i5 didn't put too much effort into full Android interface and rather has it as an add-on to run some apps like a basic Spotify which streams perfectly (especially convenient with a wireless speaker) and saves my Note 4 battery   Plus, you can play a few Solitaire games while you at it.

Btw, in THIS post you mentioned that Tidal is not your high priority and you don't even have a subscription.  Does it mean if I get Tidal demo, I will be able to hear the issue?  Could it be the limitation of a trial/demo version of Tidal you are running?  You know how some apps try to cripple the free version with ads just so you can upgrade it to a premium version

It is only the trial version of Tidal however it works fine on both Android smartphones and Apple phones, I've tried them both in the last few days.  I don't think it's merely a Tidal issue as it happened with other services that were not lossless.  I know I'm not the only one who's experienced this in this thread.  Streaming over the home network is also problematic if trying anything above 320mp3 files.

I get your point about Tidal not being a deal breaker for some - it isn't for me, can't see me paying £20 a month for a streamng service, however I would like to use services such as streaming over my home network or certain lossy radio services that it suffers with.  

I've said before and I'll say it again - SQ wise this player is excellent, better to my ears than both the Onkyo X1 and the Fiio X7 but if you are going to sell something that claims to offer Android with Wifi streaming etc etc at least make it work or advertise it as a device that has limited straming abilities!

Spoke to AMP3 on the basis that maybe I have a faulty unit but then that would mean so does everybody else who has wifi issues.  It seems a simple enough problem - song track counter starts but music is delayed by a few seconds, this must be leading to the pops and drop-outs.

I might sound awkward over this but when you pay £400 for a set of features you expect them to work as advertised.  The cloud access claims on Cayin's website are inaccurate due to this issue.  

I am surprised the issue of streaming resurfaced again in such a short time. I was hoping that my previous statement has explained the situation clearly, and that was only 2 weeks ago? So how often should I report to the group about the firmware development progress? Weekly? or Daily?

For those who join this discussion recently, please take a look on Cayin's explanation regarding the streaming issue:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/802382/cayin-i5-lossless-android-dap-with-akm4490-dac-supporting-32-384-pcm-64-128-dsd/1920#post_12994031

Cayin has acknowledged the problem, but at the same time we also observed that the description of the problem ranged from "stuttering in most songs, sometimes song just fades away then after I lose sound on all tracks" to "constant micro stuttering both in offline and online mode", "low-level intermittent micro stuttering" and "i had no issues w/ tidal stutter though".

If I have to provide my own observation of using Tidal (HiFi quality) with i5, I would describe that as micro stuttering that happens 1-2 times per song, I can hear it if I look for it, but it is not obvious and won't get into my way in normal listening. We have reason to believe that the magnitude of the problem varied a great deal, we don't know the root cause of the variation, but the different is too significant then just different perception of the same level of a problem.

Please give us some room to work on it. I am not sure if this can be resolved eventually, but raising the issue again and again and again and again after Cayin has formally acknowledged the problem is not constructive.

As of MoCol's suggestion:

they may need to advertise it as a streaming device for low quality files!!!

Let me put it this way, if you can ask Spotify to advertise their service as low-quality streaming or they only provide streaming service for low quality files, then I have no problem to follow suit in our product description. Otherwise I do not see the point to single out Cayin regartding the streaming service description.

 

[Andykong]

Another Cayin i5 DAP review is onlined
http://www.headfonia.com/review-cayin-i5-dap-the-do-it-all/

We want to thank Lieven for his thorough review and recognition, we aren't perfect, but we are working hard to make it better.

By the way, we have delivered the USB Audio IN (i.e., USB DAC) function in v2.0 firmware, the USB Audio OUT (i.e., USB OTG Digital output) is officially under development, we hope to deliver it by next firmware release.