Cayin i5 Lossless Android DAP with AKM4490 DAC supporting 32/384 PCM + 64/128 DSD

[Andykong]

Update on Cayin i5 DAP: Schedule and Design Revision

To transfer Cayin i5 DAP from R&D phase to production, we have proceed to procurement of material for mass production and started pilot production. Unfortunately we have identified new problems that have not surfaced in previous 6 rounds of prototyping: noise interference were detected when WiFi is connected. After cross-checking the prototype vs trail production samples exhaustively, we have traced the problem to two op-amp from TI. During the prototyping process, we used LME49720 (MA) in Low-pass filter and voltage amplification, unfortunately this op-amp has ceased production and we have used the revised model LME49720 (MAX) as replacement and turned out the LEM49720(MAX) is more sensitive to WiFi interfere.

While we have the option to proceed i5 as planned, and claimed that WiFi interference is inevitable, Cayin feels obliged to deliver a product that is fully functional on all primary features, and facilitation of streaming applications is a primary feature in our project plan. To remedial the situation, Cayin goes back to drawing board and improved the WiFi-related design from the ground up, and come out with the follow design revision:

1. Structural design: modify the CNC framework and carbon fiber back panel so that the WiFi components will be covered by plastic sheet instead of carbon fiber/metal frame. This will enhance the WiFi connectivity of i5 without affecting the look and feel of the façade design. The revised design will reduce the internal interference caused by reflection and minimize channel effect. The diagram below illustrates the back panel before and after the revision.
   
   
2. Analogue Circuit: the LME47920 will be replaced by AD712 (Low pass Filter) and OPA1652 (Voltage amplification), we believe this will further enhance the audio performance and immunity to interference. The revised audio circuit is as follows:
   
   
   
3. PCB layour: while we change the components, we have taken the chance to further enhance the system performance by separating the ground circuit completely. The new PCB is clean and quiet now.
   
   

All actions comes with a cost, and in this case Cayin has scrapped 500 sets of stuffed PCB, throw away /remodeled all the chassis from pilot production and developed new tooling for the revised structural design. Our R&D and Production team has been working round the clock to get back on track since the press conference in Bejing, and we are pleased to announced that the Cayin i5 will be available at Mainland China from 6 June 2016. Our plan to overseas markets remains unchanged and we expect to ship the Cayin i5 to Asia markets by late July 2016, and other areas at around 2 months after official launch in domestic market.

Cayin will keep everyone well informed in due course, and we promise to deliver a DAP that will make your music “Never Be The Same Again”.

 

[Rozenberg]

Update on Cayin i5 DAP: Schedule and Design Revision

To transfer Cayin i5 DAP from R&D phase to production, we have proceed to procurement of material for mass production and started pilot production. Unfortunately we have identified new problems that have not surfaced in previous 6 rounds of prototyping: noise interference were detected when WiFi is connected. After cross-checking the prototype vs trail production samples exhaustively, we have traced the problem to two op-amp from TI. During the prototyping process, we used LME49720 (MA) in Low-pass filter and voltage amplification, unfortunately this op-amp has ceased production and we have used the revised model LME49720 (MAX) as replacement and turned out the LEM49720(MAX) is more sensitive to WiFi interfere.

Oh yeah, it was also the problem when I was trying Spotify at your booth. So much noise, but thankfully your staff said you have the solution already.
And seems like you guys indeed do!
 
Quote:

 

• Structural design: modify the CNC framework and carbon fiber back panel so that the WiFi components will be covered by plastic sheet instead of carbon fiber/metal frame. This will enhance the WiFi connectivity of i5 without affecting the look and feel of the façade design. The revised design will reduce the internal interference caused by reflection and minimize channel effect. The diagram below illustrates the back panel before and after the revision.
  

The after is cooler tbh.
 

 

• Analogue Circuit: the LME47920 will be replaced by AD712 (Low pass Filter) and OPA1652 (Voltage amplification), we believe this will further enhance the audio performance and immunity to interference. The revised audio circuit is as follows:
  

I hope the sound will come out better and smoother after changing the opamp 

 
 
Well, I guess I still could make it for late July. Thank god the release is not delayed.

 

[audio123]

Update on Cayin i5 DAP: Schedule and Design Revision

To transfer Cayin i5 DAP from R&D phase to production, we have proceed to procurement of material for mass production and started pilot production. Unfortunately we have identified new problems that have not surfaced in previous 6 rounds of prototyping: noise interference were detected when WiFi is connected. After cross-checking the prototype vs trail production samples exhaustively, we have traced the problem to two op-amp from TI. During the prototyping process, we used LME49720 (MA) in Low-pass filter and voltage amplification, unfortunately this op-amp has ceased production and we have used the revised model LME49720 (MAX) as replacement and turned out the LEM49720(MAX) is more sensitive to WiFi interfere.

While we have the option to proceed i5 as planned, and claimed that WiFi interference is inevitable, Cayin feels obliged to deliver a product that is fully functional on all primary features, and facilitation of streaming applications is a primary feature in our project plan. To remedial the situation, Cayin goes back to drawing board and improved the WiFi-related design from the ground up, and come out with the follow design revision:

1. Structural design: modify the CNC framework and carbon fiber back panel so that the WiFi components will be covered by plastic sheet instead of carbon fiber/metal frame. This will enhance the WiFi connectivity of i5 without affecting the look and feel of the façade design. The revised design will reduce the internal interference caused by reflection and minimize channel effect. The diagram below illustrates the back panel before and after the revision.
   
   
2. Analogue Circuit: the LME47920 will be replaced by AD712 (Low pass Filter) and OPA1652 (Voltage amplification), we believe this will further enhance the audio performance and immunity to interference. The revised audio circuit is as follows:
   
   
3. PCB layour: while we change the components, we have taken the chance to further enhance the system performance by separating the ground circuit completely. The new PCB is clean and quiet now.
   
   

All actions comes with a cost, and in this case Cayin has scrapped 500 sets of stuffed PCB, throw away /remodeled all the chassis from pilot production and developed new tooling for the revised structural design. Our R&D and Production team has been working round the clock to get back on track since the press conference in Bejing, and we are pleased to announced that the Cayin i5 will be available at Mainland China from 6 June 2016. Our plan to overseas markets remains unchanged and we expect to ship the Cayin i5 to Asia markets by late July 2016, and other areas at around 2 months after official launch in domestic market.

Cayin will keep everyone well informed in due course, and we promise to deliver a DAP that will make your music “Never Be The Same Again”.

its better to delay instead of rolling out a product with flaws.if you need 2 years, go ahead! I will still be waiting

 

[Rozenberg]

its better to delay instead of rolling out a product with flaws.if you need 2 years, go ahead! I will still be waiting

In 2 years maybe they'll have Cayin i6 already lol

 

[audio123]

In 2 years maybe they'll have Cayin i6 already lol

lmao thats true. They may well have an i6 prototype to prepare.

 

[nmatheis]

Thanks so much for the update Andykong!

Your engagement with the community and level of transparency is much appreciated!!!

 

[twister6]

 

• its better to delay instead of rolling out a product with flaws.if you need 2 years, go ahead! I will still be waiting

 
You can easily fix sw/fw bug down the road by issuing a new rev, but hw recall (especially international) could be disastrous.  Cayin made the right decision and I'm sure they can re-use parts of that initial 500 pcs build (screens, batteries, mechanical components like the volume pot, maybe crystal clock oscillators, etc.) so not everything is completely wasted.
 
Also, I know some people might question why the initial release is in mainland China.  Usually it's done as part of precaution in case if they find an issue during the first production batch.  It's easier to deal with local distributors and local returns, just in case.  So, in a way it becomes another layer of quality control so that overseas market release is bulletproof.

 

[Andykong]

Oh yeah, it was also the problem when I was trying Spotify at your booth. So much noise, but thankfully your staff said you have the solution already.

And seems like you guys indeed do!

The after is cooler tbh.

I hope the sound will come out better and smoother after changing the opamp 

Well, I guess I still could make it for late July. Thank god the release is not delayed.

Take a look at the date code of the AFTER PCB

We tried to be as informative and as transparent as possible, but we need to wait until green light from the test bench before we can make a statement out of it.

There will be inevitable some delay at oversee market, but the delay is minimal, I can't say this at Munich because the delay at that times looks significant, but the team manged to narrowed down the delay to less then 10 days in domestic market, this indeed has an important contribution to the launch time of oversea markets as well.

 

[Andykong]

its better to delay instead of rolling out a product with flaws.if you need 2 years, go ahead! I will still be waiting

In 2 years maybe they'll have Cayin i6 already lol

Thanks for your kind support,


Two years? we have more then one i-series DAP in our product roadmap, I sure hope we can beat the timeline and offer more choice to i-series users down the road ASAP.

 

[Andykong]

Thanks so much for the update Andykong!

Your engagement with the community and level of transparency is much appreciated!!!

We are doing what we could, and what we believe we should, this is indeed a choice of our own, and it makes perfectly sense that other might go for a different route in handling similar issue.

Having said that, I am proud that I have associated with a company that handle the issue in this direction.

 

[Andykong]

You can easily fix sw/fw bug down the road by issuing a new rev, but hw recall (especially international) could be disastrous.  Cayin made the right decision and I'm sure they can re-use parts of that initial 500 pcs build (screens, batteries, mechanical components like the volume pot, maybe crystal clock oscillators, etc.) so not everything is completely wasted.

Also, I know some people might question why the initial release is in mainland China.  Usually it's done as part of precaution in case if they find an issue during the first production batch.  It's easier to deal with local distributors and local returns, just in case.  So, in a way it becomes another layer of quality control so that overseas market release is bulletproof.

We can't reuse the stuffed components without affecting sound quality to some extend, there is a risk on that at least, we can sell the extracted components at a hefty discount to recover part of our loss, but definitely not as a refill in our component inventory.

Indeed we have to budget for undiscovered mistakes during early stage of production, no matter how much effort we have deployed to test and verify the product before we deliver it out of our factory. The phase in approach according to geographical area is a common practice and has proven to be effective in past experience, and that's why we discourage customer to bridge over the market boundary and import a new product before the manufacturer feels comfortable with oversee market.

So the next question: When should we have a i5 tours? I don't have an answer to this, I just know you guys will raise out very soon.

 

[audio123]

Thanks for your kind support,


Two years? we have more then one i-series DAP in our product roadmap, I sure hope we can beat the timeline and offer more choice to i-series users down the road ASAP.

support Cayin forever

 

[Andykong]

A complete version of the i5 Circuit revision:

 

[nmatheis]

Spoiler

We can't reuse the stuffed components without affecting sound quality to some extend, there is a risk on that at least, we can sell the extracted components at a hefty discount to recover part of our loss, but definitely not as a refill in our component inventory.

Indeed we have to budget for undiscovered mistakes during early stage of production, no matter how much effort we have deployed to test and verify the product before we deliver it out of our factory. The phase in approach according to geographical area is a common practice and has proven to be effective in past experience, and that's why we discourage customer to bridge over the market boundary and import a new product before the manufacturer feels comfortable with oversee market.

So the next question: When should we have a i5 tours? I don't have an answer to this, I just know you guys will raise out very soon.

Whenever they're ready, Andy :wink_face:

 

[ezekiel77]

Whenever they're ready, Andy

 
Tomorrow!