Cayin i5 Lossless Android DAP with AKM4490 DAC supporting 32/384 PCM + 64/128 DSD

[Hawaiibadboy]

Is there any reason why I should go for the Fiio x7 instead of the Cayin i5?

Thanks.

Sent from heaven

  The X7 can use a potent amp with a quick module switch instead of stacking.  Think they have a balanced module as well? The i5 is almost maxed out in it's shipped config based on speed of proc and amount of memory.
 
The X7 is an extra $300 in Japan compared to the Cayin so I would not rec either. Get a Mojo and turn your phone in airplane mode and enjoy.

 

[Soundtrap]

Nope.

Hi guys.

I'm now in the market for a new DAP. I currently have a x5i. I'm now choosing between the i5 and the Fiio x7.

The sound sig I prefer is neutral to a tad bit of brightness. With that said, I find my x5i to be warm for my taste.

Is there any reason why I should go for the Fiio x7 instead of the Cayin i5?

Thanks.

Sent from heaven

Nope.

 

[English John]

Can anyone comment on the sound quality when streaming from Tidal lossless? Is it as good as the equivalent FLAC file saved to the device or SD card?

 

[linux4ever]

Hi guys.

I'm now in the market for a new DAP. I currently have a x5i. I'm now choosing between the i5 and the Fiio x7.

The sound sig I prefer is neutral to a tad bit of brightness. With that said, I find my x5i to be warm for my taste.

Is there any reason why I should go for the Fiio x7 instead of the Cayin i5?

Thanks.

Sent from heaven

 
I haven't heard Fiio X7. But I've Fiio X3 ii, AK Jr, Ak100ii and Onkyo DP-X1....Compared to all this, I would say Cayin i5 is the one I prefer. Closely followed by Ak100ii. Cayin i5 isn't reference neutral but represents all frequencies nicely. There's an added sparkle at the top and the bass extends quite deep. the vocals are where they need to be. It is very pleasing and addictive to hear this signature. the drums sound so natural. In fact the music sounds very natural. No noise. Very black background. Cayin has nailed it with the sound signature on this one. Is it perfect? no. Is it for everybody? No. But I've a strong feeling that it would satisfy many. Only one day so far with this player. Will keep listening and posting my impressions (and photos too as possible) here.

 

[PinkyPowers]

-~::Update::~-

The sorting issue continues when browsing by folder.

Albums put into folders like this seem to be sorting properly, with earliest dates at top, descending downward to later dates:
1969 - Let it Bleed
1971 - Sticky Fingers
1972 - Exile on Main St.

But albums put into folders like this, are sorted seemingly random:
[1970] Let it Be
[1967] Sgt Pepper
[1969] Abbey Road

I'm using a Samsung EVO 32GB and 64GB microSD. I've formatted the card in the Cayin i5. It formats it as FAT32, the same as most other DAPs.

It's as though the brackets are causing problems. But this is the first time that's ever happened.

 

[Andykong]

Not on the same level as a phone.
My biggest issue right now is the amount of RAM. Neutron is slow and the eq visualization is unusable which prompted me to download a memory info app. This device is at 80-90% load with Spotify or Neutron and 70-80% with stock player. The app to check uses about 2% which i confirmed on my Note 4.

The panels icon that shows all open items and lets you swipe them out of memory does not seem to work at all.

I will show it all in my vid with a side by side with another droid.
The sound?
Really really nice.

I think that added functions (droid based players) are going to need another gig of ram (2) in the future to make it more snappy.

I wrote code before and learned that well written code can make for much more efficient use of RAM so future FW releases can improve the experience but another gig might go a long way to make it better.

The sonics are very impressive and the detail retrieval is good enough to question why anyone would slap a Mojo on it and bypass a very fine implementation of the DAC stage?

I don't call myself knowledgeable in Android app so I can't be sure, but looks like this is a mix of processor and memory issue. The more advance processor might be able to handle some request more effectively but the i5 processor will need to involve more swap in/swap out (paging?) while they complete the request, hence jack up the memory utilization dramatically.

We can optimize our code to improve the efficient of the native HiBy Music Player, and we did that to certain extend. We can't do much on optimization of third party application. we are fighting to enhance our compatibility with all these third party applications support request, and when compatibility is the top priority, efficient is, sadly, compromised to certain extend.

When I saw someone buying a Hugo and use AK240SS as a digital transport, I stop questioning the wisdom of the users in planning their hobby.

To a lot of people, putting the "best" they can afford together is the the safest formula to "better than the best".

 

[Andykong]

Andy Thanks for the comments. I do appreciate you looking at the active forum T support your product this is great

I like your product versus my other options, hell I purchased it.

Will keep posting as I find any bugs or potential improvements

My comment of quick charge should have stated clearly that should be there for the next generation of the product

The external button ARE working now with the phone on locked, since I did 2.0. With 1.8 it was unreliable

In regards to the task killer I tested again. Very basic test while burning a new pair of IEM, I left the 3rd party app running playing music with my IEM's connected , came back 2 Hours later and found that everything (3rd party) was closed , including a small "notes" type . The only scenario in which that happens is under an aggressive power management scheme. Which I can tell based on Good experience with Chinese based Phones (ZTE, Xiaomi, Vivo,etc) including a brand new LeECO Pro 3 they all have this "philosophy" in the battery management approach.

The "aggressive" power management setup is indeed annoying as described. I haven't encounter similar issue with the task killer in i5 but that's because I am not a regular third party app users, I only install and run third party applications for testing purpose. I shall take note on this and try to replicate the problem one day, and will try to find out if it is possible to offer some sort of user setup/control feature in this function.

 

[Andykong]

Firmware 2.0 fixed the sorting issue when using Browse By Folder.

I don't detect any sonic changes between 1.8 and 2.0. Which is good, because I really like the sound.

The Over the Air update function did not work. I received an error stating the servers were busy, so I updated manually.

The i5 suits my ears so much I have not felt any desire to go back to the AK120ii. I'm not saying it's as good, but rather there is nothing obviously lacking in its rendering. The overall performance is so satisfactory I can just listen for hours and love every part of what I hear.

Excellent work, Cayin!

I probably need to explain this once again. Cayin i5 has three firmware upgrades, from v1.2 to v1.5 is generally smooth because we only have a handful of international users at that time. from v1.5 to v1.8 is chaotic, our web server and ftp server in China failed to take care of the International request effectively, so both manually upgrade and OTA upgrade are causing a lot of problem. We tried to tweak the server setup to rectify the problem but problem remain. We finally bit the bullet and migrate our English website to a new service provider in Hong Kong, we managed to complete the web server migration before the v2.0 firmware release (only 2 days before the release day) but we couldn't move the OTA service on time, so right now, the Manual firmware upgrade is covered by the Hong Kong Server but the OTA upgrade is still supported by the China service provider, we are doing some testing with the new server right now, hopefully the OTA upgrade service will be more reliable when in next firmware upgrade.

 

[Andykong]

A few items to share with the group

As everyone one else own a big collection of music extracted from buying new and old CD's and due to this have used devices like A&K (which have sold) to Android based units like Pioneer,Onkyo to now Cayini5.
I feel that Cayin has an edge against the traditionalcompetition on:

A) Size vs weight ratio, it feel good in the hand, easy to navigate without looking for example in pocket or dark spaces

B) Exterior finish and color, do we really need to make everything black or gray

C) Android based, for me having the ability to access the Android ecosystem so I can use music services but also other players like Neutron is big. I know Neutron looks nicer in screens over 5". But hey still be able to access,use at your leisure is great when you look at what your getting versus price

D) Price, we have to give Thanks to Pioneer, Onkyio and Cayin in bringing a dose of reality to the DAP community in regards to pricing. Seriously I know a lot of Head Fi community like their AK, AR,etc but pricing was just getting out of control for a cumbersome UI, look, size , overall options. With phones like HTC10, VIVO, LG V10 providing some good audio features I think our message to these companies is if you want to us to buy a $2K DAP you better give us more than a buggy Tidal stream capability

E) If I combine my items C and D previously stated I can state that having these Android DAP have allowed me to discover a lot of more music in a short time than before. I don't need to be at my laptop, I can be anywhere and immediately create new playlists,etc . Plus at the same not having to spend all this money on one single item. I know people will bombard me with specs on A&K, etc but really how much do I need to enjoy a HiFi experience. My Cayin combined with my IEM's really give me that balance

But really one of the best features for the Cayin i5 is having AndyKong, his involvement with the product from a response and updates is a huge issue as it shows commitment to the product. The continuous updates are good, I know others will have the perspective that indicates a lack of quality but I will disagree as even Apple perfect smartphone wonders get updates on a fairly regular intervals . Pioneer and Only have great products but firmware updates to correct or expand features are very lagging

Let's keep the improvements coming

Now Cayin DAP has a feature called Andykong, that's an interesting way to put it, I like the idea.

Honestly, I am flattered, and I hope other manufacturer will observe this "experiment" and consider similar tactic in their promotion and sales support, it might not be very efficient, but it is working.

 

[darveniza]

A few comments from some recent posts , I am still testing my own unit:

A) The unit RAM for the Cayin i5 is never unloaded like a smartphone. As a DAP the music UI is always running, as that is the core purpose. For example if I am running Spotify , Tidal then my RAM is covering the need of these 2 apps plus the DAP music app. Also it seems ES file explorer is also running.

2) Apps like Neutron are super heavy and they want a lot of RAM. In another forum someone did an analysis and it is almost like running Modern Combat game and that is heavy. My Pioneer and Onkyo slower down and in some periods froze

My biggest obstacle is the screen size and the dark UI , I have an Axon 7 smartphone and the transition just forces my eyes too much

 

[linux4ever]

http://www.head-fi.org/t/822302/reviewers-wanted-world-tour-for-cayin-i5-android-based-ak4490-dap-with-wifi-dropbox-and-google-play/180#post_13012186
 
Some photos with 2 of my IEMs above. My initial impressions:
 
(1) The build is very good and the color is very good in person. Decent size screen.
 
(2) It is thick but not bulky. It is hefty but not heavy. It can be easily carried in the pant pocket.
 
(3) The user interface is decent and intuitive for anybody coming from Android world. The touch screen is very responsive. No issues there.
 
(4) 32 GB onboard storage and has 29GB available out of the box. Uses Android 4.4. 
 
(5) The volume control is tight in a good way. the line out and headphone sockets are good quality. Overall the device screams premium quality.
 
(6) I hooked up the line out with my car stereo and it was awesome. 
 
(7) I was using my earphones on the headphone out port and once plugged it wrongly into the line out port. My ear drums should have been blown away. But it didn't. The volume was very low and increasing the volume didn't do much. And then I realized the mistake and changed the port. On my Fiio X3 ii, i would've had my ear drums blown out by now. I don't know how Cayin prevented such a  thing from happening. But I was thankful for the feature
 
(8) The sound signature is not reference neutral. But is very close to neutral and slightly on the warmish side. Sparkle at the top. And it extends very well in the lows. The layering and separation is quite good. Nothing extraordinary. The soundstage is average in width and it is also suitably deep. the vocals are in the center where it needs to be and then there are instruments playing to the sides and behind the vocals in another layer. 
 
(9) The noise is pretty much non-existent and the background is black. Cayin has almost nailed the sound. And definitely they'll improve upon it in the future models (if any). But I like this sound signature very very much. all the frequencies are presented with good detail and clarity.
 
(10) The drums are a treat to hear on this device. Sounds very natural, has impact, texture and clarity without getting bassy. The bass is there if it's there in the song. The sound is enjoyable, addictive and pleasing. Cayin can be proud of pulling it off nicely with i5.
 
Drawbacks:
 
(1) Play by folder doesn't have the feature of playing all sub folders. If there's one, I didn't see it. In Onkyo DP-X1 and my android phones, I can easily play randomly all songs in all folders from any level I'm at. I didn't try installing a 3rd party app to see how it fared.
 
(2) The MacBook external Dac feature didn't work. It mightn't be a problem of this unit as AK Jr also did the same and I had to try different cables before one worked. This unit has USB Type C port and I don't have any cables to hook up to my Mac. Have to try it on windows.

 

[GREYH0UND]

hi everyone, i have few questions
 
1 on the website is written that the cayin i5 support micro sd up to 200gb, what happen if i use one with 256?
2 what are the scanning times?
3 using a micro sd card UHS3 (reading speed of about 270MB/s) would increase the responsiveness of the device and reduce its scanning time if compared with a class 10 micro sd?
 
 
4 i'm planning to pair it with a pair of shure 535 (that i haven't bought yet) do you suggest better combinations?
 
thank for your time

 

[PinkyPowers]

hi everyone, i have few questions

1 on the website is written that the cayin i5 support micro sd up to 200gb, what happen if i use one with 256?

My guess is the same thing that happens every time a new capacity is released to the public: it works perfectly.

Those "max" ratings are only what has been tested by the manufacturer. Every DAP has a max that has been tested. And so far, every time a new capacity comes out, it just plain old works. The FiiO X5 is only rated for a 128GB card. Can you guess what happens when you put in a 200GB? I'll give you three guesses.

 

[BartSimpson1976]

Technically as per the standard you can assume that a device which supports 64GB cards will perfectly work with all cards in the future up to 2TB. 
 
But when the i5 was released only 200GB cards were available, so they will only vouch for that capacity.

 

[Hawaiibadboy]

When I saw someone buying a Hugo and use AK240SS as a digital transport, I stop questioning the wisdom of the users in planning their hobby.

 

 
It is a music player and it sounds great.
 
I quoted that sentence above because I stop questioning too.....I marvel at it but don't question it

 
 
It has been a pleasure dealing with a rep that is not paranoid that every critique is a personal affront. If you own Cayin...good job! If you work for them...they should give you a raise. one of the better arranged and implemented tours I have seen and joined. Joe Bloggs was the man to beat and you have. Other reps should follow your lead.