Can you hear a difference between DAC's?

[hakunamakaka]

Why would you want to introduce an intransparent converter into your listening chain?

To imagine that there are devices out there that are "faulty by design" and cannot fulfill that simple task because the designer intended for them to deliver sub-optimal performance.. that's infuriating to me and stresses me out.
Even more so considering that those are often the high-priced options, while cheaper DACs deliver transparent audio.


I assume it's part of the hobby for some, to just spend the majority of their time in an attempt to find the components that "harmonise" best together?


I just like listening to music and apparently don't care enough about tiny differences that may or may not be audible.


Edit:
I do like Vinyl too, fully aware that it is VERY far from transparent or accuractely reproducing the music as it was recorded. Because I like the psychological aspect of it. The fact that you need to be more invested, active, and conscious while listening to Vinyl. It's a more involved form of listening to music rather than just letting my 10'000 flac files run on a random loop.
(yet there are people who swear that Vinyl is superior to digital audio...)

Because I achieve sound that I enjoy which is musical to me.
Can you elaborate on "fault by design" ? If in audio terms it means derailing form original sound than all speakers are faulty.

I think you get stressed out for no reason. Why do you care what average Joe listens at home for his own pleasure ? Even producers that I had a chance to visit did not aim for that "accurate" sound for home. Tubes and non studio grade speakers were all over the place.

If you want to change sound signature you should always aim for speakers/headphones first, DAC's in majority of cases change sound ever so slightly, if any. There are companies though like Chord, Weiss, Lampizator which all would give different sound even for untrained ear.

Rarely any music reaches larger dynamic range then turntables can produce. Many critics would be surprised how nice LP's can sound, however what draws me there is music. On my setup I can tap my feet even on not so well recorded tracks and as a general rule of thump LP's collectors have better taste in music. When I visit someone I know I will hear something new and interesting instead of listening beatles or pink floyd over and over again

 

[gregorio]

Can you elaborate on "fault by design" ?

A DAC’s job is relatively simple and indicated by it’s name: To Convert Digital data into the Analogue signal that data represents. If it deliberately doesn’t do this, for example if it converts the data into some other sort of signal or an analogue signal not represented by the input digital data, then it’s “faulty by design”.

If in audio terms it means derailing from original sound then all speakers are faulty.

It doesn’t mean “derailing from original sound” because the original sound has already been “derailed”/changed by the microphones and deliberately in the editing/mixing/mastering phases. What we want speakers to do is convert (transduce) the input analogue signal into its equivalent sound pressure wave. Speakers cannot achieve this process very efficiently/accurately because they are mechanical devices that are constrained by the laws of physics (pertaining to motion, mass, inertia, size, materials rigidity, etc.) and therefore require compromises in order to get as close as possible or practical to reconstructing the analogue input signal. If they are deliberately designed not to do this, then they would also be “faulty by design”.

G

 

[REXNFX]

Digital audio and ADCs and DACs are not based on some sort of magic or science that doesn’t exist yet, they are based on science that has existed for 75 years.

The ancient Greeks used measurements and math (science) to prove the earth was spherical. There was never any reliable/scientific proof before (or after) the ancient Greeks that the earth was flat, only subjective impressions (it looked flat). So you have this analogy backwards, I would be insisting the earth is spherical (or not insisting anything if there were not yet any reliable evidence/scientific proof on the issue) and you would be insisting it’s flat, because it looked flat and apparently there’s some science that doesn’t exist yet that will prove it’s flat!

G

Nah, you would be one of the
guys stuck in a narrow blinkered mind set arguing against the likes of Aristotle.

 

[gregorio]

Nah, you would be one of the
guys stuck in a narrow blinkered mind set arguing against the likes of Aristotle.

Yes, I am one of the guys who argues against Aristotle, because I’m “blinkered” by the actual facts/science that proves the earth is not the centre of the universe. Only those “blinkered” by severe ignorance would not argue with Aristotle! Are you really arguing the Earth is the centre of the universe?

G

 

[Sonic Defender]

see, yet more ridiculous wrongness, proclaimed a "fact".

but bit depth has absolutely nothing to do with SPL.

such incessant, arrogant wrongness should be put to pasture in sound science where it belongs.

REMOVED - why fuel the poor communication

 

[REXNFX]

Yes, I am one of the guys who argues against Aristotle, because I’m “blinkered” by the actual facts/science that proves the earth is not the centre of the universe. Only those “blinkered” by severe ignorance would not argue with Aristotle! Are you really arguing the Earth is the centre of the universe?

G

Stil don't get it do you, oh well.

 

[gregorio]

Stil don't get it do you, oh well.

Correct, call me crazy but I still don’t get that the earth is flat or the centre of the universe and I’m not open minded enough to accept that it is, solely on the basis of marketing and some reported “impressions” or “experiences”. “Oh well” indeed!

G

 

[REXNFX]

Correct, call me crazy but I still don’t get that the earth is flat or the centre of the universe and I’m not open minded enough to accept that it is, solely on the basis of marketing and some reported “impressions” or “experiences”. “Oh well” indeed!

G

That's a poor comeback, even for you...

 

[gregorio]

That's a poor comeback, even for you...

As compared to a single sentence which doesn’t address the point at all and is just an insult?

G

 

[OnlySoMany]

Yes. I can hear the difference. But usually you have to jump up in price point. A $200 dac is probably going to sound like every other $200 dac. But a $20,000 dac or higher is not going to sound like a $200 dac. Also, a $100,000 dac will not sound like a $20,000 dac.

Also, cables do make a difference. Power, interconnects, source, etc.

There. I said it. End thread.

 

[Harum7]

I can hear a difference in the sound of the sound itself.

As a basic example, those of us who had any of the LG V/G Series phones with the ESS SoC (including the V10 which had a separate DAC and amp, not Quad DAC SoC like the latter models) could easily A/B between the Snapdragon sound and the ESS sound.

With low impedance headphones, which didn't make the onboard ESS amps up the gain, the volume level remained the same, so it was easy to notice the drastic difference in the sound quality and imaging.

I'm aware that the difference is from the combination of all the audio components and not just the ESS SoC, but YKWIM.

If I switch between my two Modi Multibits, they have their obvious differences too. No golden ears required to notice.

 

[mbphotox]

you hear differences between two identical DACs?!?!

If they really sound different, that must be a Horror story for the guys at Schiit!

Imagine having people sending back used DACs while loking for the one that "sounds best"...

 

[Harum7]

you hear differences between two identical DACs?!?!

If they really sound different, that must be a Horror story for the guys at Schiit!

Imagine having people sending back used DACs while loking for the one that "sounds best"...

 

[gregorio]

I'm aware that the difference is from the combination of all the audio components and not just the ESS SoC, but YKWIM.

TBH, I’m not sure I do know what you mean. Do you mean you’re aware the difference could be caused by any audio component (or combination) but you’ve decided to claim it’s caused specifically by the ESS chip anyway? Or did you mean something else?

G

 

[mbphotox]

oh, gotcha.

Doesn't show signatures on my phone, so I missed that one. Sorry
Did you ever try to tell them apart in a level-matched blind-test?

From what I understood, the guys at Schiit never really cared much about measurements and put their stuff together based on hearing impressions.
(until Amir started to roast them for their overpriced stuff that didn't meet basic requirements for the advertised specs; then they started to ALSO build devices that would measure to spec)



@gregorio
I'm not sure I like those blind tests that you can do online. While they clearly are recordings of the output from different DACs, doesn't the digital signal get put through your own DAC before you can listen to them to test your hearing capability?
I understand that the differences would still be there since your own DAC (no matter its quality) should convert both files "the same", but wouldn't "one" assume that those esoteric summit-fi DACs could magically remove the distortions introduced by the cheap "bad" DAC and thus result in no perceivable difference?