Campfire - Solaris

[NaittsirK]

Hey! This is a little disappointing ALO / Campfire Audio. And most definitely a 1st world problem. I was listening while watching an ambient musical video on youtube and noticed the left-right placement seemed backwards. So I did a left-right audio track test and discovered it was backwards. Did I have the earphones in the wrong ear? No, they won't fit in reversed. Was the cable plugged in backwards? No, red dot on right. I got out my multi-meter and discovered the smoky litz cable is mis-marked -- red dot on left mmcx connector.

Hey ALO, just send me a smoky super litz with a 4.4 mm balanced connector to make up for it.

The TinHiFi way of marking cables

 

[BeerNuts]

I'm convinced burn-in is not a technical thing and changes heard are your brain adapting to different headphones or other factors such as seal, tip degradation (especially w/ foam)

I am in the same boat, I really dont believe that after we get our iems that we can't listen to them after 200 hrs of playing. If this was absolutely needed then Campfire would do it before they shipped out. First impressions are extremely important and no one would buy anything in a store if they were told it sounds bad now but just wait until 200hrs of listening then it will be great!

BUT, I can honestly say i did not like my Solaris 2020 right out of the box at all. They were veiled and nothing like my OG's. I went straight to my goto songs and they were awful and didn't invoke the same smile on my face when played with the OG's. I tried changing the tips a few times and it didn't change. They just lacked everything like they were underpowered, i was sweating bullets about the purchase. I said i would leave them alone and started a burn in while i did other stuff. I think it was about 3hrs later when I got into bed i decided to give them another go. There was a night and day difference, suddenly they were much more Solaris like and worth listening to. I didn't change tips they were the same Sedna's that are on my Solaris and the same tips that were on when I didn't like them. Same cable, same player, same output.

So while I won't 100% back the idea of the 200hrs, I will say that maybe you want to give them at least an hour before you give them a go just to err on the side of caution.

 

[Toom]

I am in the same boat, I really dont believe that after we get our iems that we can't listen to them after 200 hrs of playing. If this was absolutely needed then Campfire would do it before they shipped out. First impressions are extremely important and no one would buy anything in a store if they were told it sounds bad now but just wait until 200hrs of listening then it will be great!

BUT, I can honestly say i did not like my Solaris 2020 right out of the box at all. They were veiled and nothing like my OG's. I went straight to my goto songs and they were awful and didn't invoke the same smile on my face when played with the OG's. I tried changing the tips a few times and it didn't change. They just lacked everything like they were underpowered, i was sweating bullets about the purchase. I said i would leave them alone and started a burn in while i did other stuff. I think it was about 3hrs later when I got into bed i decided to give them another go. There was a night and day difference, suddenly they were much more Solaris like and worth listening to. I didn't change tips they were the same Sedna's that are on my Solaris and the same tips that were on when I didn't like them. Same cable, same player, same output.

So while I won't 100% back the idea of the 200hrs, I will say that maybe you want to give them at least an hour before you give them a go just to err on the side of caution.

You were more relaxed and expecting a change when you got into bed, so hey, your brain heard things differently. Seriously, i have heard a literal 'night and day' difference in IEMs in the past depending on the time of day and my mental state.

As to why iem manufacturers don't already burn in their products before boxing, well i suspect they 1) Cant afford to lose profits in doing that, and/or 2) don't believe in burn in either.
Either way, recommending 200 hours is kind of an insurance against a user returning an IEM as soon as they put it in their ears - while waiting to get used to its sound is helpful advice for all of us, waiting 200 hours is plain ridiculous, but it helps mitigate against user dissatisfaction by putting the onus onto them. Hey, its not our iem, its your lack of discipline!

 

[Rockwell75]

depending on the time of day and my mental state.

So much this...your mental state has a profound impact on how you perceive things...some days everything sounds great, other days nothing does, and everything in between. This is the precise reason why I don't put too much stock in the commentary of those who haven't actually owned or otherwise spent a good deal of time with a piece of gear.

 

[dleblanc343]

Burn in is more existant than the difference between a Solaris and Solaris SE tbh.

Rule of thumb, a brand new driver that isn’t pre burned-in @ manufacturer’s facility will greatly change in its first 5-10 hours of playback. A few million driver flexes is enough for a significant mechanical break in.

Now for those who will say 40, 80, 100+ hours. That’s more of a meme in the audio business. Sure for a transformer or caps, or voice coil in a microphone or cartridge, maybe 40 hours + is sort of understandable. But for a baffle or diaphragm, 1-3, maybe up to 5 hours, there are significant changes.

When I had Solaris, the dynamic driver took a few hours to sync up coherently with the rest. Went from not very impressive to excellent real quick

Also, @Lookout57 very curious about your impressions as you own all 3 models. Would also be curious to hear if, like me, you don't hear much of a difference between the OG and SE besides slight tonal shift.

Cheers everyone

 

[Rockwell75]

Burn in is more existant than the difference between a Solaris and Solaris SE

YMMV...I've never heard any changes (in any IEM I've owned) that I would confidently ascribe to burn in...the the subtle differences between OG and SE (more forward, thicker mids, tighter more controlled bass) were apparent to me right away and have only gotten more apparent with time.

 

[BeerNuts]

You were more relaxed and expecting a change when you got into bed, so hey, your brain heard things differently. Seriously, i have heard a literal 'night and day' difference in IEMs in the past depending on the time of day and my mental state.

As to why iem manufacturers don't already burn in their products before boxing, well i suspect they 1) Cant afford to lose profits in doing that, and/or 2) don't believe in burn in either.
Either way, recommending 200 hours is kind of an insurance against a user returning an IEM as soon as they put it in their ears - while waiting to get used to its sound is helpful advice for all of us, waiting 200 hours is plain ridiculous, but it helps mitigate against user dissatisfaction by putting the onus onto them. Hey, its not our iem, its your lack of discipline!

So much this...your mental state has a profound impact on how you perceive things...some days everything sounds great, other days nothing does, and everything in between. This is the precise reason why I don't put too much stock in the commentary of those who haven't actually owned or otherwise spent a good deal of time with a piece of gear.

Very easy to try and discredit what i said but sitting at home quarantined doing nothing all day just waiting for the mail was hardly a non-relaxing or stressful day. They sounded like they were being played though a random phone and not a 4.4 HG on a DAP. I of courses had my OG's on hand at the same time and they played just as expected. I swapped the 2020's and the OG's between cables to confirm my 2020 impressions. The OG's sounded like butter though the 4.4, the 2020's lacked everything the OG's had.

If anything killed the mood it was the 2020's lack of performance killing my excitement. Also when I get into bed its still hours before I actually sleep. It's the time i kill reading, youtube, forums, and other time killers before I roll over. I totally agree your state of mind affects everything but mine went from happy about my purchase to somewhat pensive and upset to these sound great. I don't think being angry about the headphones made them sound any better. I certainly wasn't more relaxed or open to new sounds 3hrs after they made me wonder if I had to return them.

I am totally with you on the mood and day affecting sound and even album preferences, but I had both of my Solaris on hand and there was a discernible difference.

 

[Rockwell75]

Very easy to try and discredit what i said but sitting at home quarantined doing nothing all day just waiting for the mail was hardly a non-relaxing or stressful day. They sounded like they were being played though a random phone and not a 4.4 HG on a DAP. I of courses had my OG's on hand at the same time and they played just as expected. I swapped the 2020's and the OG's between cables to confirm my 2020 impressions. The OG's sounded like butter though the 4.4, the 2020's lacked everything the OG's had.

If anything killed the mood it was the 2020's lack of performance killing my excitement. Also when I get into bed its still hours before I actually sleep. It's the time i kill reading, youtube, forums, and other time killers before I roll over. I totally agree your state of mind affects everything but mine went from happy about my purchase to somewhat pensive and upset to these sound great. I don't think being angry about the headphones made them sound any better. I certainly wasn't more relaxed or open to new sounds 3hrs after they made me wonder if I had to return them.

I am totally with you on the mood and day affecting sound and even album preferences, but I had both of my Solaris on hand and there was a discernible difference.

My statement wasn't implied to be a response to your experience...I was just making a general statement. I know the OI is different on 2020 could that be a part what you're noticing?

 

[Ryokan]

You were more relaxed and expecting a change when you got into bed, so hey, your brain heard things differently. Seriously, i have heard a literal 'night and day' difference in IEMs in the past depending on the time of day and my mental state.

I was listening to my Andromeda's recently and suddenly one side sounded different, I thought they were broken and put them in a drawer. A few days later I tried them and they sounded as good as they had been. Then the same thing happened again, it sounded like cotton wool had been shoved into one of the ports. I noticed there was a lot of moisture on the stainless steel tips so warmed them with a hair dryer and a few hours later they were fine again. So with the larger bores is it possible the atmosphere affects them?

Some days all my iem's sound meh, and I have to pinch my nose and blow (gently), after a few hours the sound is full again.

When I first play new iem's I'm often disappointed and it's only after a few months I hear the reasons why people rave about them.

 

[CL14715]

Inner ear pressure or congestion can murder sound impressions. It very apparent if you have that issue though.

 

[dhc0329]

I just noticed uneven volume level on these 2020's where left side of IEM's louder than right side. Tested multiple tracks and different DAPs
with the same result. It doesn't sound like a normal operation but asking if anyone also noticed or it's just mine.

 

[BeerNuts]

My statement wasn't implied to be a response to your experience...I was just making a general statement. I know the OI is different on 2020 could that be a part what you're noticing?

The ZX300 was my first worry for sure. I have had this problem before with iems and daps. There is a massive difference on the 3.5 and 4.4 due to power output. But using the same wire, tips, and dap the sound has improved from that first listen. It sound different to the OG for sure but its not veiled anymore, more depth for sure. I could swear it was underpowered before since it lacked the dynamic sound i am used to, but now I am not so sure. I'm still on the 'burn in' sounds like a stupid idea but I think they needed at least something to wake up, stretch, flex, whatever we want to say. I 100% want to say it was just the moment but when i put them in I was like oh god What, and i put in the OG's to see if i was crazy and they were fine. It wasn't just more mids from the 2020, but very much lacking in depth/warmness of sound my OG has. That lead to some panic tip and wire rolling. I tried my laptop and iPhone as well but they were bleh as expected because I prefer the detailed sound out of the 4.4. I can't even use my 3.5 on the zx300, it feels like a total waste over what the 4.4 can provide. I certainly am not returning them and i don't think they are damaged or anything because now it's a lot closer to what I expected of them on first listen. My reaction wouldn't have been the same if they sounded like this out of the box. It's very weird for sure.

 

[Rockwell75]

The ZX300 was my first worry for sure. I have had this problem before with iems and daps. There is a massive difference on the 3.5 and 4.4 due to power output. But using the same wire, tips, and dap the sound has improved from that first listen. It sound different to the OG for sure but its not veiled anymore, more depth for sure. I could swear it was underpowered before since it lacked the dynamic sound i am used to, but now I am not so sure. I'm still on the 'burn in' sounds like a stupid idea but I think they needed at least something to wake up, stretch, flex, whatever we want to say. I 100% want to say it was just the moment but when i put them in I was like oh god What, and i put in the OG's to see if i was crazy and they were fine. It wasn't just more mids from the 2020, but very much lacking in depth/warmness of sound my OG has. That lead to some panic tip and wire rolling. I tried my laptop and iPhone as well but they were bleh as expected because I prefer the detailed sound out of the 4.4. I can't even use my 3.5 on the zx300, it feels like a total waste over what the 4.4 can provide. I certainly am not returning them and i don't think they are damaged or anything because now it's a lot closer to what I expected of them on first listen. My reaction wouldn't have been the same if they sounded like this out of the box. It's very weird for sure.

Have you heard it through anything other than the ZX300? Sony DAPs are famously underpowered and given that 2020 has a higher OI than SE/OG this could very well be a significant factor. I would suggest (if you haven't already) to try 2020 through a more powerful source than the ZX300.

 

[subguy812]

So much this...your mental state has a profound impact on how you perceive things...some days everything sounds great, other days nothing does, and everything in between. This is the precise reason why I don't put too much stock in the commentary of those who haven't actually owned or otherwise spent a good deal of time with a piece of gear.

As you have seen me rant against all of the ever popular short listen impressions, no credibility. On New Years I wrote a rant about just this on Audio Rabbit Hole. Listening on noisy CanJam floors, headphone shops and quick listens. Take an IEM like Legend X, you will only hear what you have been told, not the nuances.

 

[subguy812]

I was listening to my Andromeda's recently and suddenly one side sounded different, I thought they were broken and put them in a drawer. A few days later I tried them and they sounded as good as they had been. Then the same thing happened again, it sounded like cotton wool had been shoved into one of the ports. I noticed there was a lot of moisture on the stainless steel tips so warmed them with a hair dryer and a few hours later they were fine again. So with the larger bores is it possible the atmosphere affects them?

Some days all my iem's sound meh, and I have to pinch my nose and blow (gently), after a few hours the sound is full again.

When I first play new iem's I'm often disappointed and it's only after a few months I hear the reasons why people rave about them.

I have seen this with Andromeda's more than any other.