James444,
Fair enough, every one hears things differently.
Please for clarification can you list specifically what "other capable DD IEMs" are? Or rather what you think it "better" than the Vega? and do you own a Vega?
Sure, let me explain where I'm coming from, I listen to a lot of acoustic music, jazz and classical. And I tend to listen at low to medium volume, hardly ever louder than 50% on any DAP. All of this is important to understand preferences imo, since a metal or EDM fan who listens at ear-splitting volume will definitely have different sound priorities from mine.
To me, bass is the foundation of sound signature, and it needs to sound authoritative, dynamic and effortless, but at the same time linear and not exaggerated. Among the full-sized headphones I've heard, the HD800 and LCD2v2 come close to my ideal conception of bass. Among dynamic driver (DD) based IEMs, the EX1000 rule still supremely in my book when it comes to bass. The Vegas tick the former of my boxes, but not the latter. I perceive them as non-linear (sub-bass boosted) and exaggerated, which makes acoustic instruments like cello and double bass sound somewhat off-timbre and low notes in general rather obtrusive, even with classical recordings (which are usually the least critical ime, wrt bass).
I do not own the Vegas, but being a fan of DD based IEMs, I had high hopes for them to be like EX1000s with more refined treble (besides ergonomics, somewhat unruly treble is the Sony's weak point). Something like that, I would have bought on the spot. However, like I said, both me and my friend failed to hear the magic in that audition. To give you an example of other capable DD IEMs, I ended up preferring the JVC FW01 in direct A/B comparison, also a bassy phone, but less obtrusive, with better timbre, on par in detail resolution, noticeably smoother and less sibilant in treble.
Still, I'm not very fond of declaring something as "better"... let's just say "I prefer" the mentioned phones over the Vegas, and keep it at that.
@KB you are a gentleman. I really respect how you responded to James' post. If it makes you feel any better, he is 100% wrong.
(a joke)
In all seriousness, you've done an excellent job with your iems, and I definitely look forward to more of your products.
The over-representation of resident bassheads in this thread alone confirms that I'm 100% right.
Ken, I think he mentioned about a brief demo of Vega. What I would like to find out if that was a store demo, fresh out of the box, or someone else pair of Vegas without a proper burn in? But the most important question what was the source used during auditioning?
Vega needs 100hrs of burn in before any critical analysis. But more important - I see it scales up in sound quality with a powerful source. For anybody auditioning Vega from their smartphone, or with some gimmicky usb/otg dac, or any DAP lacking in power or in low gain - you will not drive Vega to their full potential, and can also find bass slam to be somewhat overwhelming. I find it night'n'day driving Vega from something like my Galaxy Note 4 or AK120ii versus LPG or Opus#2 in high gain where the overall signature is more balanced and the bass quantity is under control. Also, after a proper burn in, I never experienced any sibilance or grainy/harsh performance. Of course, this is my subjective opinion.
Store demo, but quiet room and lots of time. Several sources available, but I personally don't care anymore and just use my smartphone these days (several audiophile amps / DAPs resting peacefully in drawers). Been there done that, and learned over time that any decent smartphone is good enough to sort the wheat from the chaff. YMMV. But if that's any consolation, my friend used a Mojo stack and came to the exact same conclusion regarding the Vegas.
There's an unmistakable energy peak on the Vegas around 7-8kHz. A
waterfall plot (which illustrates the decay of energy over time) clearly shows delayed decay (aka "ringing") in that range. Whether this translates into sibilance may vary from listener to listener, depending on sensitivity and hearing ability. But it's there, it's measurable, and you might be able to make a lot of money if you really can come up with a burn-in procedure that resolves an issue like that.
Speaking of which, one more word regarding burn-in: I actually forgot to ask how many hours the demos I heard had on them. But I left my email address with another store owner, who gave me the same story about how the Vegas need 100hrs of burn-in. And I told him to contact me as soon as bass has come down to Andro levels (or below). I've yet to hear from him again...
Another really REALLY big issue about demos is about the tips.
I guess Ken and his folks would keep the stock foamies on their demoes at the shows.
In my local stores they usually opt for spinfits or other silicon tips on all demoes, probably for durability and perceived hygiene issues.
But gosh a proper demo of the Campfire offerings especially the Vegas simply CANNOT be on silicons. MUST be on foamies. MUST. That is not just relevant to overall sound quality and signature but also the issue of sibilance. Never heard any sibilance at all on foamies and on a powerful source (Sony number letter salad on balanced mode). Occasional sibilance on gel tips and when underpowered.
agreed Vega cannot be used with silicon tips at all cost.
The better damping of foam tips as compared to silicones certainly helps to absorb surplus treble energy.
I'm one of those people, but I'm still burning in (that sounds like a whole different hobby, come to think of it . . .), so judgment is being reserved.
While I'm waiting out the burn-in process, I would be interested to know more about CA's overseas QC. The CA website is awash with photographs of (presumably) Oregonians hand-crafting small batches of Andromedas (it appears), and the propaganda that comes with the Vegas says that they are all individually tested. But (and forgive my ignorance, for I am still learning), is there a test for sibilance (etc.)? My anxiousness about this is not unrelated to the fact that the Vegas are made with third-party parts in China. I presume that there is some assigned tolerance permitted, so is it possible that some of the phones made it from the factory sounding "more sibilant" than others?
I in no way mean to suggest anything at all by these questions, just looking to learn (and give myself comfort in the meantime while I burn these in.
Sibilance is the consequence of too much energy in the 6-8kHz range. This is usually not a matter of manufacturing tolerances and QC, but rather a matter of tuning. The latter of which is something of a balancing act, because good treble presence makes a phone sound lively and detailed, so you don't want it to sound too polite / subdued either.
