[SBranson]

That actually sounds like bass I like, tight, taut, quick, etc., with the not insignificant qualification that I also like some warmth that keeps it from sounding artificial, cold, clinical, unnatural.

As for involving, realism, and immersion into the sound stage, that's precisely what I'm looking for. I know I said I will use these mostly for more relaxing music and times, but I can actually relax (even fall asleep) with thrash metal at a moderate volume lol (something I've been able to do since I was a teenager). I don't want a boring, laid back, overly warm, etc. sound but a good all-rounder with some fun element even if I'll primarily use these for certain genres and moods.

And I particularly hate feeling suffocated, like the sound is veiled, or too congested with not enough separation between instruments, so I like a more neutral/clear tone with a wider sound stage. But I also don't want an overly clinical, cold, sharp, or thin tonality either. I especially hate when mids and particularly vocals are too distant (recessed) as a trade off for a wider and deeper sound stage. That's my main gripe with the Arya's (and also that they are somewhat clinical and uninvolving with being technically very good).

But I also don't want too intimate mids, like vocals right in my face (or ear) and a compressed sound stage. I like the balance of the vocals (and mids) in the mix that the Blessing 2's do overall, better than my Arya's (which are still much better headphones technically). I also like the somewhat warm mids of the Blessing 2's which gives them some fun or involving capacity (their highs are too low in the mix for me however) at the trade of some clarity.




Well Blessing 2 to the Arya is a big change in tonality (and overall technical ability) and I still enjoy listening to both (though the Blessing 2 is far more fun/involving) so I'm not too worried about sticking with particular tunings, partly since with headphones I'm not sure exactly what I prefer yet! (With speakers, or sound overall, I have a good idea, but I find headphones/IEMs so different than speakers in presentation that I can't really compare them, partly because things that don't bother me with speakers do with headphones due to the immediacy of the presentation).

However, I don't like your description of female vocals being sort of lower in the mix as some of my favorite music involves female vocals. I do, however, like the idea of not being a spectator to the sound and being more enveloped by it, as long as that doesn't mean a small width or depth to the stage (height I'm not so worried about) which I think is not a problem with most Campfire IEMs.

I have looked at the Ara, but it seems too much like my Arya in tone (technically great, very clear and resolving, but maybe too cold, thin and uninvolving, feeling like a spectator to the music instead of more immersed in it). The Solaris 2020 seems like a good middle ground between it and the warmer Andromeda 2020.


Anyway, these posts and others itt have been a big help and I thank everyone for their time. I'm going a little nuts with IEM research, ever-broadening my scope, and now have researched dozens of IEMs on many forums/sites. I know that many will find that silly, but that's the sort of person I am with decisions overall and especially those that involve significant money: I try to make judicious ones based off research and especially time (waiting, holding the impulse to buy too soon in check) because many of my first choices with material goods which I feel great about for a day or two I later realize would have been a mistake as I find more, and better, options and I'm glad I didn't buy any of my original choices.

I also really don't want to play musical chairs with gear, buying, selling, trading, or even sending back items, because I have little tolerance for the bother and find it is a great way to lose hundreds of dollars due to the depreciation of used audio gear (and also many times great gear at good prices simply sits in "for sale" posts on different forums and never sells, so one could potentially lose quite a bit of money, stuck with gear they don't like or need, unless they sell it for a very big loss).

So, iow, I'm trying to get things right for my second real IEM (besides the Blessing 2 I only have had $100 ish IEMs from over 10 years ago that I never was very impressed with and are the reason I gave up on IEMs for over 10 years). I have it down to 3 main choices though (in no particular order): Solaris 2020, Noble Kaiser (or possibly Katana), and now again the UM MEST that I was first decided on (almost ordered it but they didn't have the color I wanted in stock) but then got turned off by the lack of wide reviews/impressions (it is still pretty new) so I find it more of a risky choice (really like the EST for the highs and bone conduction tech though...and lower price).

I think I'll try to refrain from replying to posts itt in the future because I don't want to take it over too much or make it into too much of a "shop/decide for me" thing (unless that is ok). I really should make a thread in the "Help and Recommendations" forum, but then I also don't want to try to keep up with all the different posts I'd have to reply to there (I'm not really on head-fi all that much) and people insisting on gear I, for right or wrong, have already taken out of consideration. So unless it is ok to keep discussing my options here (including with other brands), I guess I'll just say thanks again for all the help and anyone can PM me if they have any input they think might be helpful. And should I decide on the Solaris 2020, I will certainly let users in here (and elsewhere) know and what I think. Thanks!

Lots to reply to but, briefly from my experience currently having the Solaris 2020 and the Andromeda Gold, and having had the Noble Encore, Katana and the K10 in the past...

The Solaris 2020 bass is not overdone or wooly at all. It’s quick and nimble and even fools me being a DD sometimes in comparison to the U12. It’s almost like a perfect BA bass. It’s not at all like the Legend X shake your chest bass but I never find it lacking.
Solaris 2020 is an intimate presentation in that I feel in the midst of the music but it has very good imaging and spatial cues so even if things sound close, you get a real sense of space. It’s an odd combination for me but very engaging without the claustrophobic feeling of others that don’t do this well. The Andromeda Gold has a very sweet tonality but compared to the clarity of the Solaris 2020 it ends up feeling more like listening to music rather than being “in” the music... if that makes sense. Not sure it can though because I’ve heard quite a few iems and the Solaris2020 is the first that combines the closeness with the sense of space in this way. The Andromeda Gold is, to me, a similar tuning but nothing is quite as good. If you preferred warmth over clarity then maybe the AndroGold but the Solaris 2020 but It’s just not quite a “real” sounding.

You mentioned the Noble line. The Encore does a bit of that thing you mention of trading recessed mids to gain soundstage. I always liked the Noble line up as they had a sense of sitting further back in the audience and reminded me more of listening to speakers. The Katanas are similar in presentation but warmer sounding. I found the Encores rather cold sounding.. Granted these were some time ago and with a different source. The K10s are nice too but not at the same level as the Encore or Katana.
I really like Noble iems as I had always been searching for and iem that sounded like speakers or headphones but the Solaris 2020 has kind of won me over (for now, ha ha) with what seems like a “true iem experience” for lack of a better phrase.

That said, I’m really curious about the Andromeda 2020 for solo classical instruments..

PS... I listen to very similar music as you’ve described, and I recently had the Blessing 2.

 

[PoSR77]

Lots to reply to but, briefly from my experience currently having the Solaris 2020 and the Andromeda Gold, and having had the Noble Encore, Katana and the K10 in the past...

The Solaris 2020 bass is not overdone or wooly at all. It’s quick and nimble and even fools me being a DD sometimes in comparison to the U12. It’s almost like a perfect BA bass. It’s not at all like the Legend X shake your chest bass but I never find it lacking.
Solaris 2020 is an intimate presentation in that I feel in the midst of the music but it has very good imaging and spatial cues so even if things sound close, you get a real sense of space. It’s an odd combination for me but very engaging without the claustrophobic feeling of others that don’t do this well. The Andromeda Gold has a very sweet tonality but compared to the clarity of the Solaris 2020 it ends up feeling more like listening to music rather than being “in” the music... if that makes sense. Not sure it can though because I’ve heard quite a few iems and the Solaris2020 is the first that combines the closeness with the sense of space in this way. The Andromeda Gold is, to me, a similar tuning but nothing is quite as good. If you preferred warmth over clarity then maybe the AndroGold but the Solaris 2020 but It’s just not quite a “real” sounding.

You mentioned the Noble line. The Encore does a bit of that thing you mention of trading recessed mids to gain soundstage. I always liked the Noble line up as they had a sense of sitting further back in the audience and reminded me more of listening to speakers. The Katanas are similar in presentation but warmer sounding. I found the Encores rather cold sounding.. Granted these were some time ago and with a different source. The K10s are nice too but not at the same level as the Encore or Katana.
I really like Noble iems as I had always been searching for and iem that sounded like speakers or headphones but the Solaris 2020 has kind of won me over (for now, ha ha) with what seems like a “true iem experience” for lack of a better phrase.

That said, I’m really curious about the Andromeda 2020 for solo classical instruments..

PS... I listen to very similar music as you’ve described, and I recently had the Blessing 2.

Thanks so much for all this! Very helpful!

I'll try to keep things briefer this time (sorry, I've had a problem with being concise in oral, and especially written, communication since grade school!).

Yea, it seems I was off about the Solaris 2020 bass; not sure where I got that impression, but the more reviews/impressions I read (or re-read) the more I find that yes, there is talk about the bass, but not about it being overdone. Perfect bass due to a combination of a BA like articulation with some DD naturalness*; sounds to be just what I like.

I think I know what you are describing with that type of sound stage and a listener's placement in it. I'd have to hear it for myself to make sure. But if it is what I think you are describing, a type of real "you are there with the performers in the place they put you at" and not so much a spectator in a general fixed position presentation (at least with well-recorded music), then that's precisely what I like (and what I've sought, and have attained, in some of my 2 channel setups).

Your notes on the Noble's are very helpful. I've read vastly differing views of them; for instance, in contrast to your descriptions, I think I've read that the Kaisers are warm with great "smooth" and present mids while the Katanas are more analytical and distant. And I've read that the K10's are very close to the sound of the Kaisers. It seems hard to get a consensus about Noble's line...which scares me lol. One main reason I'm looking at them is that in a week or so there will be a sale on them which will place them under my hard-line cutoff price ($1,500...that budget limit used to be $1,000 just a couple weeks ago sigh) and I do like to buy on sale whenever I can. (On that note, are CA items ever on sale anywhere?).

I read you as saying that perhaps the Noble's give off a more speaker like sound stage (which I certainly like), but maybe do so artificially while the Solaris 2020 (and maybe other CA's) do the same thing but without "cheating": you know, ultimately, that you are listening to an IEM (which is not necessarily a bad thing, but rather a different thing than listening to comparable quality speakers). One thing I dislike in audio gear is artificiality.

One last thing: what did you think of the Blessing 2? Be honest, I won't be offended lol. For me it's impressive all things considered. Even though I can hear deficits in its sound, I still enjoy listening to it which is the best praise I can give "budget" gear. But considering $300 will get me that, I'm finally willing to spend much more on an IEM if it is worth it.


Ok, so I'll just say one last thing: I'm leaning towards the Solaris 2020 for my IEM pick. This thread helped a lot (again, thanks!) and I also did a "deeper dive" of various forums (including on Reddit), scrolling through dozens of posts to see what users thought of CA in general, and the Solaris original or 2020 in particular, and the consensus is good to impressive, so they seem to be a safer pick than other options overall and are especially geared towards what I'm looking for in an IEM.

*I will note that in my experience the type of transducer doesn't always matter as much as its implementation. But for the purposes here we'll assume the generalities of tone of these types of transducers.

 

[SBranson]

Thanks so much for all this! Very helpful!

Thanks so much for all this! Very helpful!

I'll try to keep things briefer this time (sorry, I've had a problem with being concise in oral, and especially written, communication since grade school!).

Yea, it seems I was off about the Solaris 2020 bass; not sure where I got that impression, but the more reviews/impressions I read (or re-read) the more I find that yes, there is talk about the bass, but not about it being overdone. Perfect bass due to a combination of a BA like articulation with some DD naturalness*; sounds to be just what I like.

I have trouble with the differences between the DD and BA when it's done like this. The U12t could've been a DD for all I can tell because of it's great extension and seemingly full sound down deep whereas I'm hard pressed to find a big difference in the Solaris' bass.. but I don't have both side by side to compare and haven't heard the U12t for about 6 months. Now the EE LX or Bravado, now that's where I can tell it's DD bass! (The Blessing 2 is a place where the use of DD for bass seems as nothing to mention as I've heard better BA bass)

I think I know what you are describing with that type of sound stage and a listener's placement in it. I'd have to hear it for myself to make sure. But if it is what I think you are describing, a type of real "you are there with the performers in the place they put you at" and not so much a spectator in a general fixed position presentation (at least with well-recorded music), then that's precisely what I like (and what I've sought, and have attained, in some of my 2 channel setups).

In my two channel setups, (15-20 years ago) I just sought to recreate what the recording had.. A large symphony I wanted to sound like a hall, Janos Starker on Bach cello suites had him in the chair right between the speakers.. The Solaris 2020 is more an iem experience as there is not the "cheat" you mention. The iems are in your ears and sometimes (like with the Orion) I feel like CA iems can have sounds very localized in the iems, even with the Andromeda.. but with the Solaris, the full "holographic" presentation gives a very real sense of the note or voice as I think the room cues are picked up by the mic. To me there isn't the attempt to make these sound like headphones or speakers at all but they do what they do so well, I'm convinced. For what it's worth, I didn't always like this. When I had the U12t, which has a distant quality, I listened to a friend's Solaris SE and that close presence took me aback for how different it was and because I only had 5 mins or so, I didn't really "get it" like I do now.

Your notes on the Noble's are very helpful. I've read vastly differing views of them; for instance, in contrast to your descriptions, I think I've read that the Kaisers are warm with great "smooth" and present mids while the Katanas are more analytical and distant. And I've read that the K10's are very close to the sound of the Kaisers. It seems hard to get a consensus about Noble's line...which scares me lol. One main reason I'm looking at them is that in a week or so there will be a sale on them which will place them under my hard-line cutoff price ($1,500...that budget limit used to be $1,000 just a couple weeks ago sigh) and I do like to buy on sale whenever I can. (On that note, are CA items ever on sale anywhere?).

I read you as saying that perhaps the Noble's give off a more speaker like sound stage (which I certainly like), but maybe do so artificially while the Solaris 2020 (and maybe other CA's) do the same thing but without "cheating": you know, ultimately, that you are listening to an IEM (which is not necessarily a bad thing, but rather a different thing than listening to comparable quality speakers). One thing I dislike in audio gear is artificiality.

I never understood the Katanas as "analytical" myself.. The K10s were actually my favourite of the three as they were a lot of fun to listen to. The Encores were my least favourite as I think they took the K10 sound and tried to make it seem more impressive by somehow creating a larger soundstage. In the end I think it sacrificed musicality to do so..
Like I said, I really like Noble iems but not at full price. I think there are better iems at those prices. At the current used prices, they are an excellent value though.


One last thing: what did you think of the Blessing 2? Be honest, I won't be offended lol. For me it's impressive all things considered. Even though I can hear deficits in its sound, I still enjoy listening to it which is the best praise I can give "budget" gear. But considering $300 will get me that, I'm finally willing to spend much more on an IEM if it is worth it.

To be honest, I was underwhelmed. Excellent for $300 if you like that tuning but for me, the bass was not helped by being a DD, the new Moondrop tuning (as opposed to the A8), to me, has vocals sounding a little too in the throat and not in the chest.. but I think that's a personal tuning thing. I had the S8 and tried to love it because it did so much so well but overall I found the vocals to lack body and substance. Cellos were bite and no resonance.. I guess I like a little more warmth..


Ok, so I'll just say one last thing: I'm leaning towards the Solaris 2020 for my IEM pick. This thread helped a lot (again, thanks!) and I also did a "deeper dive" of various forums (including on Reddit), scrolling through dozens of posts to see what users thought of CA in general, and the Solaris original or 2020 in particular, and the consensus is good to impressive, so they seem to be a safer pick than other options overall and are especially geared towards what I'm looking for in an IEM.

*I will note that in my experience the type of transducer doesn't always matter as much as its implementation. But for the purposes here we'll assume the generalities of tone of these types of transducers.

 

[Rockwell75]

The U12t could've been a DD for all I can tell because of it's great extension and seemingly full sound down deep whereas I'm hard pressed to find a big difference in the Solaris' bass

For me the selling feature of u12t's bass is its speed and natural decay-- but what it (and all BA bass) ultimately lacks relative to the bass of something like the Solaris is that subterranean density and weight that a well tuned DD can deliver. Perhaps the biggest revelation for me in terms of the evolution of my own tastes in this hobby is that I can be totally satisfied with less bass if the density, weight and authority are right. Listening to the u12t for shorter sessions I could be fooled into accepting its bass as dynamic-- but longer sessions would always have me feeling that something was missing. I have spent a good deal of time with 3 top tier BA IEMS (the VX, VE8 and u12t) and all of them, after longer sessions, left me subconsciously craving more. The VX almost had me but coming back to Solaris after a few months with the VX was a liberating shock. What I have come to love about the bass on the Solaris is that, as you say, it is nimble and quick, but it is also weighty and authoritative. In some respects it takes the best elements of both BA and DD bass and blends them together. I have not yet encountered an IEM that does this as well (or, for that matter, even attempts it) and this is one of the major reasons I haven't been seriously tempted by any other IEMs this last few months (thought I am really looking forward to a/bing your 2020 with my SE).

 

[SBranson]

For me the selling feature of u12t's bass is its speed and natural decay-- but what it (and all BA bass) ultimately lacks relative to the bass of something like the Solaris is that subterranean density and weight that a well tuned DD can deliver. Perhaps the biggest revelation for me in terms of the evolution of my own tastes in this hobby is that I can be totally satisfied with less bass if the density, weight and authority are right. Listening to the u12t for shorter sessions I could be fooled into accepting its bass as dynamic-- but longer sessions would always have me feeling that something was missing. I have spent a good deal of time with 3 top tier BA IEMS (the VX, VE8 and u12t) and all of them, after longer sessions, left me subconsciously craving more. The VX almost had me but coming back to Solaris after a few months with the VX was a liberating shock. What I have come to love about the bass on the Solaris is that, as you say, it is nimble and quick, but it is also weighty and authoritative. In some respects it takes the best elements of both BA and DD bass and blends them together. I have not yet encountered an IEM that does this as well (or, for that matter, even attempts it) and this is one of the major reasons I haven't been seriously tempted by any other IEMs this last few months (thought I am really looking forward to a/bing your 2020 with my SE).

Maybe I'm just not the person to make "objective" comments or try to review bass. What I like in the Solaris bass is that it has a natural decay and nimbleness to the bottom of it's register. Some BA bass can go as deep it seems but it's more of an "approximation". By that I mean the actual notes or instrumental timbre starts to suffer where a good DD bass doesn't. I ended up leaving the U12t feeling a wanting too but for different reasons.. more that it was a bit tiring as it was a more intellectual listen, where I kept focussing on the parts rather than the whole.

It could be too that the bass in my music is usually more sustained rather than punchy. I listen to more classical or modern classical as you know.

 

[PoSR77]

Thanks for the responses/impressions guys! They are informative and helpful to an IEM newbie like myself.

I was too busy to reply back in detail today (maybe tomorrow, so apologies in advance for any too-lengthy responses ), and I'm getting to bed now, but I just wanted to pop in here and say thanks and also that there is an 80% chance that I've decided on the Solaris 2020 and will be ordering them in a few days (some places still have them in stock...same price everywhere).

Here's another good review; it's new so I didn't read it before: https://www.audiophileon.com/news/campfire-audio-solaris-2020-review

And here's a discussion with darko audio about the new CFA models which I haven't had time to listen to yet (1 1/2 hours! going to try to just listen to the Solaris discussion) : https://overcast.fm/+MoQMxi3tQ

There's also this interesting brief comparison between the original Solaris and Noble Audio Kaiser Encore: https://majorhifi.com/campfire-solaris-vs-noble-audio-kaiser-encore-review/

 

[PoSR77]

Well, I just ordered the Solaris 2020! Thanks again to everyone for the help, and I'll try to post impressions of them after I have come to grasp their sound over time.

 

[Colors]

Having owned the v2, v3, AndroS and AG in the past...

Just got my MW10 and I think it's probably the best version of Andro yet (gotta demo the Andro 2020 though). It's like it the took the OG, lifted the veil, boosted the upper mids slightly for some clarity and maybe reduced the mid-bass a little. What results is an Andro w/ the OG's treble, the S's mids and a very coherent bass. Enjoying it a lot and the mids on it are particularly fantastic (probably the best out of all the Andro versions) and the treble is not very peaky. Soundstage is reduced a little, but there is tons of air and I believe imaging improved significantly as well as the instrument separation and layering. It's also fairly dynamic (not as much as a DD IEM), but it's very engaging and keeps you bobbing your head to the music. It's an excellent tuning and if @audio123 @ExpatinJapan or @Currawong can chime in about it's differences with the 2020, that would be much appreciated. I suspect they took the MW10's tuning and used it on the 2020 as Ken Ball mention. Regardless, great IEM!

 

[ExpatinJapan]

See if you can make any sense out of the links in here (i still have to stitch it together into one coherent piece).

https://www.headpie.net/2020/06/campfire-new-release-round-up-final.html?m=1

 

[ryno1507]

Hey guys, I've tried using the E1DA 9038s G3 but have had issues with the volume reverting to max and potentially causing me hearing damage so I'm not confident in using it with my phone.

I will be purchasing a new DAP and can't decide with which one to get. I'd like an Android capable DAP, was thinking Cayin N6ii but have had a Cayin DAP before and the software wasn't great nor the battery life. Is there a better option out there? What's everyone using with their Campfire IEMs?

 

[chickenmcnug]

Hey guys, I've tried using the E1DA 9038s G3 but have had issues with the volume reverting to max and potentially causing me hearing damage so I'm not confident in using it with my phone.

I will be purchasing a new DAP and can't decide with which one to get. I'd like an Android capable DAP, was thinking Cayin N6ii but have had a Cayin DAP before and the software wasn't great nor the battery life. Is there a better option out there? What's everyone using with their Campfire IEMs?

Just get the Lotoo Paw S1, use it with phone and call it a day lol.

 

[audio123]

Having owned the v2, v3, AndroS and AG in the past...



Just got my MW10 and I think it's probably the best version of Andro yet (gotta demo the Andro 2020 though). It's like it the took the OG, lifted the veil, boosted the upper mids slightly for some clarity and maybe reduced the mid-bass a little. What results is an Andro w/ the OG's treble, the S's mids and a very coherent bass. Enjoying it a lot and the mids on it are particularly fantastic (probably the best out of all the Andro versions) and the treble is not very peaky. Soundstage is reduced a little, but there is tons of air and I believe imaging improved significantly as well as the instrument separation and layering. It's also fairly dynamic (not as much as a DD IEM), but it's very engaging and keeps you bobbing your head to the music. It's an excellent tuning and if @audio123 @ExpatinJapan or @Currawong can chime in about it's differences with the 2020, that would be much appreciated. I suspect they took the MW10's tuning and used it on the 2020 as Ken Ball mention. Regardless, great IEM!

The MW10 is more transparent with greater dynamics. Without a doubt, the best Andromeda to date, love my MW10.

 

[chimney189]

Which would be a better compliment, the Andromeda Gold or the Solaris 2020? I currently have the Vega. I mainly listen to Videogame OST music and Deep House music

 

[Lookout57]

I have all three and if you like the Vega the Solaris 2020 has similar bass but a much larger soundstage, as people say, 3D.

 

[Rockwell75]

Having owned the v2, v3, AndroS and AG in the past...



Just got my MW10 and I think it's probably the best version of Andro yet (gotta demo the Andro 2020 though). It's like it the took the OG, lifted the veil, boosted the upper mids slightly for some clarity and maybe reduced the mid-bass a little. What results is an Andro w/ the OG's treble, the S's mids and a very coherent bass. Enjoying it a lot and the mids on it are particularly fantastic (probably the best out of all the Andro versions) and the treble is not very peaky. Soundstage is reduced a little, but there is tons of air and I believe imaging improved significantly as well as the instrument separation and layering. It's also fairly dynamic (not as much as a DD IEM), but it's very engaging and keeps you bobbing your head to the music. It's an excellent tuning and if @audio123 @ExpatinJapan or @Currawong can chime in about it's differences with the 2020, that would be much appreciated. I suspect they took the MW10's tuning and used it on the 2020 as Ken Ball mention. Regardless, great IEM!

The most tempted I've ever been by an Andro...and that is just for the color scheme alone. Beautiful IEM.