[ralphp@optonline]

Let's assume for a moment that the product design team at Sennheiser takes all of the survey results and the many insightful comments from this (and other threads) and manages through some miracle of engineering to get everything we could have hoped into the flagship headphone - best in class sound and comfort in a well built yet lightweight headphone. Question: what would you be willing to pay for this dream headphone? $1,800 (the current price of the HD 800S), $2000 (the current price of the HD 820) or something else?

I would be willing to go as high as $2,500 for what I'm calling the Sennheiser Unobtainium 900

 

[listenerwww]

I am sorry to conclude that this is an answer from someone who can not even start to imagine how the NDH 30 sounds or feels.

I literally wrote an entire review, took pictures, and did measurements of two different units.

Moreover, Sennheiser says for Neumann (exact words): "Neumann is incredibly strict on tolerances for this model (NDH 30) in a way that it's on the edge of what's possible in headphone series production, which may contribute to positive characteristics like soundstage".

Oratory1990 also had similar issues with variance as I did. Neumann/Sennheiser can say whatever they want, the reality is that variance was a problem.

A slight and very careful implemented midrange "suckout" of the NDH 30, practically inaudible, scares an HD-800 admirer??? Strange, since the HD-800 has a larger and deeper one (crinacle, solderdude, and others), but you love it as it is.

If you'd read my posts you'd see the single thing I'm telling Sennheiser to change about the HD800 S's sound is the 2kHz suckout, without altering acoustic impedance greatly.
The former quality can be fixed with EQ (and I do, though I'd rather not have to) and the latter cannot. If they lift 2kHz by additional damping, no amount of EQ can remove the additional acoustic impedance.

My problem with NDH-30 is that it has that big suckout *as well as* recessed treble.

Comfort? Sure, that's subjective. Placement variation? My measurements seemed to indicate that even slight positioning differences were meaningful to treble response, especially since my methodology is usually trying to get all 3 seatings (per side) as similar as possible.

I'm sorry I don't like a headphone you like.

 

[listenerwww]

Let's assume for a moment that the product design team at Sennheiser takes all of the survey results and the many insightful comments from this (and other threads) and manages through some miracle of engineering to get everything we could have hoped into the flagship headphone - best in class sound and comfort in a well built yet lightweight headphone. Question: what would you be willing to pay for this dream headphone? $1,800 (the current price of the HD 800S), $2000 (the current price of the HD 820) or something else?

I would be willing to go as high as $2,500 for what I'm calling the Sennheiser Unobtainium 900

The simple fact is that unless they reduce the price or make big ergonomic improvements, anyone asking me for an HD 800(S) will be told to look for a used model because prices hover around $700-800 used and build longevity is excellent so worries with used purchasing are minimal compared to other brands like Hifiman or Focal. Another reason HD 800 is one of the greats is that it's the highest resolution per dollar ratio out there due to used market pricing.

If they improved ergonomics *and* fixed the 2kHz dip, I'd say $2k is where such a design could reasonably top out without me being too mad at it.

 

[VNVNation]

I would be willing to go as high as $2,500 for what I'm calling the Sennheiser Unobtainium 900

At USD$2,500 it then becomes a nearly AU$5,000 dollar proposition in Australia so that is a hard pass. Under AU$3,000 and its doable, just.

 

[ralphp@optonline]

At USD$2,500 it then becomes a nearly AU$5,000 dollar proposition in Australia so that is a hard pass. Under AU$3,000 and its doable, just.

Australia you say. So I guess that I'll be seeing you in Singapore next weekend.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Let's assume for a moment that the product design team at Sennheiser takes all of the survey results and the many insightful comments from this (and other threads) and manages through some miracle of engineering to get everything we could have hoped into the flagship headphone - best in class sound and comfort in a well built yet lightweight headphone. Question: what would you be willing to pay for this dream headphone? $1,800 (the current price of the HD 800S), $2000 (the current price of the HD 820) or something else?

I would be willing to go as high as $2,500 for what I'm calling the Sennheiser Unobtainium 900

Tough sale, HE1000V2 at $2K already improves on many HD800 aspects.

 

[jamesjames]

Filled out the survey. I had 4 different hd800/S in the past. i settled with an old serial number SN 144xx silver HD800. I found the widest soundstage and most clean and analytical technical sounding from all headphones I owned (including utopia , He1000 and other Hd800/S ) . Most of all for me , the laser sharp technical capabilities and wide soundstage is the most important. The driver needs to render every small hidden nuance in the music and it needs to be presented in a very spacious way to be truly an immersive listening experience, and it needs to be presented in the most lifelike tuned way. I hope the new HD800S2 or named anything, is coming .

It's great to see this. My experience mirrors yours, right down to owning the other phones you mention before settling on an HD800 SN14XXX!! (I also have an earlier model SN 01XXX, which has the same character.) I have and enjoy the HD800S, but it's less good for the kind of music I listen to - classical. This was behind my comment above: it would be terrific to see a 'new' HD800. I would hope it's commercially possible to produce various 'tunings' of the 800 series. It seems to me this would - if possible - be a good way to address the inevitable differences between listeners. I'm firmly convinced that those who listen to acoustic instruments and those who listen to other kinds of music are simply not looking for the same things in phones. Part of the problem for designers and engineers I think is that they are asked to engineer a product that will satisfy all. That might be possible, but it's a tall order.

 

[headstef]

I literally wrote an entire review, took pictures, and did measurements of two different units.



Oratory1990 also had similar issues with variance as I did. Neumann/Sennheiser can say whatever they want, the reality is that variance was a problem.



If you'd read my posts you'd see the single thing I'm telling Sennheiser to change about the HD800 S's sound is the 2kHz suckout, without altering acoustic impedance greatly.
The former quality can be fixed with EQ (and I do, though I'd rather not have to) and the latter cannot. If they lift 2kHz by additional damping, no amount of EQ can remove the additional acoustic impedance.

My problem with NDH-30 is that it has that big suckout *as well as* recessed treble.

Comfort? Sure, that's subjective. Placement variation? My measurements seemed to indicate that even slight positioning differences were meaningful to treble response, especially since my methodology is usually trying to get all 3 seatings (per side) as similar as possible.

I'm sorry I don't like a headphone you like.

I am very sorry that you had to write such a review. It is very well written but it is also one of the most unfortunate I have ever read. I see that we both happen to like very much the HD-650 for the same reasons. I find every day that the NDH 30 leaves my beloved HD-650 (two of them) behind in a spectacular way (resolution, balance, macro-dynamics and especially micro-dynamics, instrumental timbre, soundstage precision, naturalness). You described the opposite! Also, almost every other user have readily seen that there is no comparison with the HD-6## series, the NDH 30 plays in a significantly higher class and there comparisons start to make sense. I was as surprised as everyone when I first tested it months ago. So this is not a matter of "I like it" and "you don't" - what an oversimplification! You are experienced and you should be alarmed; what you heard or what you wrote has very little to do with the sound of the NDH 30. It is not for me to find out why.

Also, how "wrong" it is to expect Neumann/Sennheiser to spoil its reputation offering the pro-world a "broken" expensive reference for mixing/mastering! Which was subsequently extremely well received and adapted for its tremendously consistent results with expensive monitors.

My measurements are in the NDH 30 thread. Also, covering with great detail the positioning effect and the accidently reversed (L to R) wearing. Any further discussion should take place there.

 

[realbonk]

Also, almost every other user have readily seen that there is no comparison with the HD-6## series, the NDH 30 plays in a significantly higher class and there comparisons start to make sense. I was as surprised as everyone when I first tested it months ago.

Who is "almost every user" or "everyone"?

 

[headstef]

I am referring to people expressing their impressions in Head-Fi, mostly as comparisons. Many NDH 30 owners also own one or more headphones of the HD-6## series, some own the 800/800S too or other expensive gear. Comparisons with well known standards are very useful and meaningful. There are plenty spread in the NDH 30 and the HD-660S2 threads.

 

[Trinkle]

We will probably never know what is actually going on. May be a new headphone is being built with totally new tech so feedback regarding sound is not important at this point, but it may share some ergonomics related design that is why the survey is like this. As far as new patents go, Sennheiser may be heavily investing into a planar magnetic that works in tandem with software tricks. :

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/88/31/37/a899add1b1cdbd/US11388539.pdf
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/dd/d8/21/991c22f382126b/US10820109.pdf

AFAIK they even mentioned in interviews, the future is 3d/spatial audio and software tricks might be able to enhance the experience like nVIDIA does with graphics using techniques like DLSS.

 

[realbonk]

We will probably never know what is actually going on. May be a new headphone is being built with totally new tech so feedback regarding sound is not important at this point, but it may share some ergonomics related design that is why the survey is like this. As far as new patents go, Sennheiser may be heavily investing into a planar magnetic that works in tandem with software tricks. :

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/88/31/37/a899add1b1cdbd/US11388539.pdf
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/dd/d8/21/991c22f382126b/US10820109.pdf

AFAIK they even mentioned in interviews, the future is 3d/spatial audio and software tricks might be able to enhance the experience like nVIDIA does with graphics using techniques like DLSS.

Why did you cherry pick these two patents out of the hundreds of other patent applications, including ignoring the patent with the explicit 800 variant in the drawings?

 

[headblid]

That looks like an 820/variant, closed back. The survey was about open 800 variants I believe.

Hopes of patent applications making it to market is a rabbit hole best left unexplored though so coming back the thread, when will Sennheiser tell us what the survey is for or if/when we’re going to see something related to it?

Why did you cherry pick these two patents out of the hundreds of other patent applications, including ignoring the patent with the explicit 800 variant in the drawings?

 

[IXOYE]

Why not use the chassi design from HE-1?

 

[realbonk]

That looks like an 820/variant, closed back. The survey was about open 800 variants I believe.

Hopes of patent applications making it to market is a rabbit hole best left unexplored though so coming back the thread, when will Sennheiser tell us what the survey is for or if/when we’re going to see something related to it?

I agree, and that was my point lol

That planar magnetic one has been around as long as the 820 one.