MarioImpemba
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Brief Odac impressions
- Thread starter MikeW
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Help please
Why not? Its an amplifier.
Alec246
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Just got my ODAC unit here! Really nice sounding unit so far!
So, are you all using the recommended 24bit/96 in Win7?
So, are you all using the recommended 24bit/96 in Win7?
adydula
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24 bits/ 44.1 khz
and congrats on your ODAC!
Alex
and congrats on your ODAC!
Alex
Alec246
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Thanks! Very happy with the JDSLabs cMoy BB v2.03 + ODAC + HD558! Great sound!
I'm using WASAPI in foobar, so I guess the setting inside Win7 Audio Manager doesn't matter
I'm using WASAPI in foobar, so I guess the setting inside Win7 Audio Manager doesn't matter
headwig
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As I understand it, you should use the highest bit depth and sampling frequency that is used by any source data file or stream. Choosing the setting that matches your highest-resolution source data will get you the best sound the source can produce. Going higher just wastes processing power and memory without making the music sound any better. So, for example, if you never listen to sources that are better than 16/44.1 then you should probably set that in your Windows audio settings.
If you think you might play some 24/96 sources you can set Windows to these high settings if you're not worried about CPU and RAM usage when playing lower-resolution sources. But it won't make your lower-resolution sources sound better.
That's how I understand it anyway. If I am wrong then please someone explain why!
If you think you might play some 24/96 sources you can set Windows to these high settings if you're not worried about CPU and RAM usage when playing lower-resolution sources. But it won't make your lower-resolution sources sound better.
That's how I understand it anyway. If I am wrong then please someone explain why!
Slycks
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Unfortunately Win 7 isn't an option on this pc, it's a little too old for that. I do have my laptop/Win 7 set up properly without a hitch, it's just the XP desktop that is giving me the mentioned problems with KS and ASIO. Was really hoping someone here could chime in.
Also, given that the ODAC is transparent, I never realized how bass biased some of my gear is, especially my CD transport. Had the laptop/ODAC and CDP hooked up to the stereo, both playing the same recording and the ODAC was noticeably lacking in bass / punch in comparison. Or maybe something's wrong with my ODAC?
Quote:
Quote:
Also, given that the ODAC is transparent, I never realized how bass biased some of my gear is, especially my CD transport. Had the laptop/ODAC and CDP hooked up to the stereo, both playing the same recording and the ODAC was noticeably lacking in bass / punch in comparison. Or maybe something's wrong with my ODAC?
Quote:
Quote:
chrislangley4253
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adydula
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The majority of the source CD redbook is 16bit, 44.1 khz.
Yes there is higher bit rate stuff you can buy/download etc....great debates whether its any better that standard redbook.
The reason I have this set to 16/24 is beacuse I dont want any 'potential' upsampling of the 44.1khz stuff.
I dont want the dac or the player or the OS to much with the source unless I want to do that.
Upsampling to me just crap.
I do have some HD stuff and have gone back and forth with my own lisening tests and hear nothing that my ears can detect that is worthy of more of my bucks...
Others will disagree for sure.
After talking with the HRT engineering folks we agreed that the 16 bit, 44.1 setting for their dac is fine for most everything...
When I use Win 7 WSAPI-Event mode in the JRiver player I have the DSP etc set to allow what the source is to flow and do nothing to upsample or add or detract from the bits.
The lights on the HRT, no lights or indicators on the ODAC change from 44 to 96 etc ....regardless of the WIN 7 playback advanced settings.
With the ODAC if I want to play 24/96 etc I do change the WIN 7 playback settings from 16/44 to 24/96 etc...but after much playing with this I can not really tell any difference etc...
Again with the majority of CD material at 16/44 is the reason why I have this as such.
In the Jriver player I do display the bit depth of the song and if I see that its 20 bit or 24 bit depths I can change the win 7 settings if desired....
In your dac settings you will see exclusive mode settings....you want this to be on to allow for the applications like Jriver to take control of the device and allow for bit perfect results....
or to allow for the source to pass thru unsample or mucked with .....
Play with it yourself and let us know what you hear..
All the best
Alex
Yes there is higher bit rate stuff you can buy/download etc....great debates whether its any better that standard redbook.
The reason I have this set to 16/24 is beacuse I dont want any 'potential' upsampling of the 44.1khz stuff.
I dont want the dac or the player or the OS to much with the source unless I want to do that.
Upsampling to me just crap.
I do have some HD stuff and have gone back and forth with my own lisening tests and hear nothing that my ears can detect that is worthy of more of my bucks...
Others will disagree for sure.
After talking with the HRT engineering folks we agreed that the 16 bit, 44.1 setting for their dac is fine for most everything...
When I use Win 7 WSAPI-Event mode in the JRiver player I have the DSP etc set to allow what the source is to flow and do nothing to upsample or add or detract from the bits.
The lights on the HRT, no lights or indicators on the ODAC change from 44 to 96 etc ....regardless of the WIN 7 playback advanced settings.
With the ODAC if I want to play 24/96 etc I do change the WIN 7 playback settings from 16/44 to 24/96 etc...but after much playing with this I can not really tell any difference etc...
Again with the majority of CD material at 16/44 is the reason why I have this as such.
In the Jriver player I do display the bit depth of the song and if I see that its 20 bit or 24 bit depths I can change the win 7 settings if desired....
In your dac settings you will see exclusive mode settings....you want this to be on to allow for the applications like Jriver to take control of the device and allow for bit perfect results....
or to allow for the source to pass thru unsample or mucked with .....
Play with it yourself and let us know what you hear..
All the best
Alex
adydula
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Here is one "experts" comment to me after asking the same type of question:
"No USB DAC can control the sample rate, that is the job of the media player and OS. Leaving the OS set to 24 bit depth is a good idea but setting the sample rate to a fixed value that is different from the source material isn't the best approach. Since you indicate that the bulk of your material is 44k1 sample rate, the I would recommend that you use 44k1/24b for your setup."
So if the bulk of your stuff is 16/44...and you dont use WSAPI and the exclusive settings correctly...all your lowly 16/44 stuff could ger upsampled to higher rates...and this is not necessarily good.
Alex
"No USB DAC can control the sample rate, that is the job of the media player and OS. Leaving the OS set to 24 bit depth is a good idea but setting the sample rate to a fixed value that is different from the source material isn't the best approach. Since you indicate that the bulk of your material is 44k1 sample rate, the I would recommend that you use 44k1/24b for your setup."
So if the bulk of your stuff is 16/44...and you dont use WSAPI and the exclusive settings correctly...all your lowly 16/44 stuff could ger upsampled to higher rates...and this is not necessarily good.
Alex
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That's great advice in your last couple of posts, Alex.
When I play 44.1 kHz files, I select 24 bit, 44100 Hz (Studio Quality) in the Default Format setting of the Windows 7 Speaker Properties (for my USB DAC), as shown here:
When I play 96 kHz files, I select 24 bit, 96000 Hz (Studio Quality).
I'm with you on not upsampling. You can't add detail that's not there to begin with. You only take the risk of blurring what's there by messing with it.
I borrowed an April Music Stello for about 30 days, during the summer of 2011. The Stello has a toggle switch on the front panel labeled UPSAMPLE with two positions labeled 192 and Byp (for "Bypass").
I found that the Bypass position always sounded better (with my equipment, my ears) than when upsampling to 192kHz. The DA100's owner agrees (with his equipment, his ears). So far as I could tell, upsampling to 192kHz only added a slight sheen to the highs. It certainly didn't improve audible detail. I was using a 15V Stepdance -> LCD-2 rev.1 at the time, and my the owner was using a Schiit Lyr -> HE500.
Mike
When I play 44.1 kHz files, I select 24 bit, 44100 Hz (Studio Quality) in the Default Format setting of the Windows 7 Speaker Properties (for my USB DAC), as shown here:
When I play 96 kHz files, I select 24 bit, 96000 Hz (Studio Quality).
I'm with you on not upsampling. You can't add detail that's not there to begin with. You only take the risk of blurring what's there by messing with it.
I borrowed an April Music Stello for about 30 days, during the summer of 2011. The Stello has a toggle switch on the front panel labeled UPSAMPLE with two positions labeled 192 and Byp (for "Bypass").
I found that the Bypass position always sounded better (with my equipment, my ears) than when upsampling to 192kHz. The DA100's owner agrees (with his equipment, his ears). So far as I could tell, upsampling to 192kHz only added a slight sheen to the highs. It certainly didn't improve audible detail. I was using a 15V Stepdance -> LCD-2 rev.1 at the time, and my the owner was using a Schiit Lyr -> HE500.
Mike
sulla138
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Old pc. Are you sure you have a 2.0 USB port? Is there enough bandwidth on USB 1.0?
K_19
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Quote:
I have the Stello and I also always use the Bypass. I feel that it has far better and natural bass extension and taller 3D soundstage. The upsampling switch seems to roll off the low bass, bring forward the mids a little bit and widen the soundstage but flatten it as well.
I borrowed an April Music Stello for about 30 days, during the summer of 2011. The Stello has a toggle switch on the front panel labeled UPSAMPLE with two positions labeled 192 and Byp (for "Bypass").
I found that the Bypass position always sounded better (with my equipment, my ears) than when upsampling to 192kHz. The DA100's owner agrees (with his equipment, his ears). So far as I could tell, upsampling to 192kHz only added a slight sheen to the highs. It certainly didn't improve audible detail. I was using a 15V Stepdance -> LCD-2 rev.1 at the time, and my the owner was using a Schiit Lyr -> HE500.
Mike
I have the Stello and I also always use the Bypass. I feel that it has far better and natural bass extension and taller 3D soundstage. The upsampling switch seems to roll off the low bass, bring forward the mids a little bit and widen the soundstage but flatten it as well.
tdockweiler
Headphoneus Supremus
I tested out the Ferrite Core USB cable vs one without tonight. Think it'd be virtually impossible for there to be any difference in audio quality, but it's really amusing to test.
I did one of those USB non-sense tests last year and couldn't detect an ounce of difference. I know about the whole 1s and 0s thing, but some really do claim there is a difference. I just haven't heard it
The ones that supposedly sound different use silver. Maybe the only difference is due to length.
If there actually IS any difference then you'd have to have some seriously golden ears to hear it. My brain was telling me I was hearing a slightly improved soundstage and a smoother sound. In the Mishima soundtrack there's this track where I feel as if I'm hearing sounds from behind me to the far right. With the ferrite core version I felt it was less distant. My brain and ears seriously kept telling me the non ferrite one is what I should stick with and that's what I'm doing.
I was actually using two 1.5 foot Monoprice cables with ferrite core. Now i'm just using two regular ones.
UPDATE:
I just switched to my DJ100 closed headphones. The difference is even greater. Go figure...
When I was listening to some Black Keys sound the bass felt slightly bloated. Not like the usual DJ100, which is never bloated.
A good example is on the Buena Vista Social Club. On the song "Chan Chan", the bass seems a tad more bloated than it should. Sounds a tad muffled due to this and the soundstage seems compressed compared to how it should be.
When switching to the non ferrite cable the song clears up and the soundstage is back to how it should be.
Next try this song (Osamu's Theme from Mishima Soundtrack by Philip Glass):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn3mh-V1SAw
On my FLAC version it's nearly impossible to pinpoint all the instruments with the ferrite cable. Soundstage seems too small and everything shoved so close together. Why? That's not how it should sound.
The sound coming from the right is very distant sounding, just like how it should be. On the ferrite one it's sounds much closer.
I guess it's all in my head right? But this is bizarre. Maybe the only difference is that the other one is just higher quality. I tried another non-ferrite and it still sounds better than the Monoprice one.
The ferrite one makes some music sound fuller than it should be (this is hard to detect on the Q701 compared to the DJ100). Probably due to the impression of very slightly extra bass.
Someone should test this more and tell me i'm not nuts. Could be hearing things. When listening to "chan chan" the difference isn't exactly subtle. Within two seconds you hear something is "off".
It seems closed headphones are better for detecting equipment issues. The DJ100 and ODAC has fixed two issues so far for me. On open headphones it's too hard to tell any difference. Wish I could explain that one...
Feel free to proclaim i'm hearing things
Yep, I know it's all the 1s and 0s and everything, but this is just weird. Maybe Monoprice cables are cheap for a reason
If you think i'm hearing these things, please test this first. You must get tracks that have a good soundstage in the recording. Then you can also test with bass heavy songs and with a closed headphone that's fairly revealing.
Here's another good track for testing. Probably best to get the FLAC version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnFfKbxIHD0
BTW does anyone remember how I was saying this ODAC made my garbage tracks less fatiguing in the treble than they should be? This doesn't fix it or anything. Not that I could tell so far.
I did one of those USB non-sense tests last year and couldn't detect an ounce of difference. I know about the whole 1s and 0s thing, but some really do claim there is a difference. I just haven't heard it
The ones that supposedly sound different use silver. Maybe the only difference is due to length.
If there actually IS any difference then you'd have to have some seriously golden ears to hear it. My brain was telling me I was hearing a slightly improved soundstage and a smoother sound. In the Mishima soundtrack there's this track where I feel as if I'm hearing sounds from behind me to the far right. With the ferrite core version I felt it was less distant. My brain and ears seriously kept telling me the non ferrite one is what I should stick with and that's what I'm doing.
I was actually using two 1.5 foot Monoprice cables with ferrite core. Now i'm just using two regular ones.
UPDATE:
I just switched to my DJ100 closed headphones. The difference is even greater. Go figure...
When I was listening to some Black Keys sound the bass felt slightly bloated. Not like the usual DJ100, which is never bloated.
A good example is on the Buena Vista Social Club. On the song "Chan Chan", the bass seems a tad more bloated than it should. Sounds a tad muffled due to this and the soundstage seems compressed compared to how it should be.
When switching to the non ferrite cable the song clears up and the soundstage is back to how it should be.
Next try this song (Osamu's Theme from Mishima Soundtrack by Philip Glass):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn3mh-V1SAw
On my FLAC version it's nearly impossible to pinpoint all the instruments with the ferrite cable. Soundstage seems too small and everything shoved so close together. Why? That's not how it should sound.
The sound coming from the right is very distant sounding, just like how it should be. On the ferrite one it's sounds much closer.
I guess it's all in my head right? But this is bizarre. Maybe the only difference is that the other one is just higher quality. I tried another non-ferrite and it still sounds better than the Monoprice one.
The ferrite one makes some music sound fuller than it should be (this is hard to detect on the Q701 compared to the DJ100). Probably due to the impression of very slightly extra bass.
Someone should test this more and tell me i'm not nuts. Could be hearing things. When listening to "chan chan" the difference isn't exactly subtle. Within two seconds you hear something is "off".
It seems closed headphones are better for detecting equipment issues. The DJ100 and ODAC has fixed two issues so far for me. On open headphones it's too hard to tell any difference. Wish I could explain that one...
Feel free to proclaim i'm hearing things
If you think i'm hearing these things, please test this first. You must get tracks that have a good soundstage in the recording. Then you can also test with bass heavy songs and with a closed headphone that's fairly revealing.
Here's another good track for testing. Probably best to get the FLAC version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnFfKbxIHD0
BTW does anyone remember how I was saying this ODAC made my garbage tracks less fatiguing in the treble than they should be? This doesn't fix it or anything. Not that I could tell so far.
Slycks
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Alright, so I'm an idiot. I figured out why I couldn't get ASIO4ALL working in XP, it was because in the Offline Settings, I forgot to disable the In for the ODAC. Make sure only Out is selected! Just an FYI for those who might be having problems as well.
I'm having another issue. I'm using the ODAC with the O2 amp and there are times when the volume will suddenly be unusually low (seems it happens when I plug/unplug the AC charger though I'm not sure) and I have to turn the O2 volume knob way higher than usual. Then after I switch off the O2 awhile it'll just randomly return to normal. Is this a low battery issue? I was under the impression that when batteries ran low the unit would simply shut off?
I'm having another issue. I'm using the ODAC with the O2 amp and there are times when the volume will suddenly be unusually low (seems it happens when I plug/unplug the AC charger though I'm not sure) and I have to turn the O2 volume knob way higher than usual. Then after I switch off the O2 awhile it'll just randomly return to normal. Is this a low battery issue? I was under the impression that when batteries ran low the unit would simply shut off?
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