Bravo Audio - funny looking little tube amps
May 6, 2010 at 7:36 PM Post #781 of 2,720
^ I have several that work just fine! I even have one of these right here that is sweet, sweet, sweet:
 
http://cgi.ebay.com/1xNOS-Siemens-PCC88-6922-7DJ8-Germany-NIB-/150440347210?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2306f1864a
 
May 7, 2010 at 1:01 PM Post #783 of 2,720
What are the sound signatures of different tubes? I got one of these bad bois on the way. I'm considering getting the ecc88 since a few ppl have been mentioning it. How do they sound compared to the stock tube? I'm a total newb in amp modding so tube rolling is probaly the furthest I'm doing for now. Another question? Which manufaturer is better? Tesla or Siemens?
 
Thanks guys.
 
May 7, 2010 at 8:30 PM Post #784 of 2,720

 
Quote:
Quote:

Originally Posted by pj_rage /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Well I have one on the way to play with, I'll be happy to post some pics if no one has by the time I receive it.

What should be my number 1, 2, 3 mods?

I have some Panasonic FC 1200uf and 1500uf 50V caps around... can I make use of them?



It would be hard for me to rank them in order as they are all worthwhile...
The most important would have to be adding the Bias Capacitors, they are
missing from the original design.
The Power/Output Caps and MOSFET will all get you noticeable improvements.
Replacing the Bias Trim Pots is more to replace a poor quality component with
one more suitable. If you plan on doing much tube rolling, it is much easier and accurate to adjust.
Finally, if it still has the poor quality push button on/off switch, just remove it, jumper where it was and turn the whole thing on and off with a power bar.
If it has the newer toggle switch then it should be OK.

Here are some component suggestions, they are by no means the only ones that will work but are strongly suggested. I included Mouser Part Numbers.

Main Power Cap: one needed
10000uF @ 35 Volts. : 647-UFW1V103MRD
(this is very big and will just fit

Power Bypass Cap: one needed
1uF @ 63 volts : 505-MKS21.0/63/10
(replaces the cap directly behind the power jack)

Output Caps: two needed
1000uF @ 25 Volts : 647-UKW1E102MPD

Bias Cap: two needed
680uF @ 6.3 Volts : 647-PLE0J681MDO1
(soldered underneath across the Bias Trim Pot)

Bias Trim Pot: two needed
2K multi turn : 652-3266W-1-202LF

Output MOSFET : two needed
IRF510 : 844-IRF510SPBF

Some suggested tubes for tube rolling were just covered in a previous post...


A couple of questions for you A_A.
 
The IRF510s you have listed here are the "SPBF" version which seem to be the surface mount type without the screw hole. The "PBF" version is of the same type as the IRF630s that are in the amp. Pictures are available on digi-key here of the "SPBF and PBF versions since mouser does not have any pictures.
 
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=IRF510SPBF-ND
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=IRF510PBF-ND
 
Second, about the bias caps. Back in the thread, someone posted these caps at 470uf:
 
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=493-3066-ND&itemSeq=85245622&uq=634088571800335270
 
What is the difference between these and the 680uf caps you listed?
 
And lastly, the WIMA caps you listed above are back ordered at mouser. Any other alternatives that are just as good?
 
May 7, 2010 at 8:35 PM Post #785 of 2,720

 
Quote:
Quote:

Originally Posted by pj_rage /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Well I have one on the way to play with, I'll be happy to post some pics if no one has by the time I receive it.

What should be my number 1, 2, 3 mods?

I have some Panasonic FC 1200uf and 1500uf 50V caps around... can I make use of them?



It would be hard for me to rank them in order as they are all worthwhile...
The most important would have to be adding the Bias Capacitors, they are
missing from the original design.
The Power/Output Caps and MOSFET will all get you noticeable improvements.
Replacing the Bias Trim Pots is more to replace a poor quality component with
one more suitable. If you plan on doing much tube rolling, it is much easier and accurate to adjust.
Finally, if it still has the poor quality push button on/off switch, just remove it, jumper where it was and turn the whole thing on and off with a power bar.
If it has the newer toggle switch then it should be OK.

Here are some component suggestions, they are by no means the only ones that will work but are strongly suggested. I included Mouser Part Numbers.

Main Power Cap: one needed
10000uF @ 35 Volts. : 647-UFW1V103MRD
(this is very big and will just fit

Power Bypass Cap: one needed
1uF @ 63 volts : 505-MKS21.0/63/10
(replaces the cap directly behind the power jack)

Output Caps: two needed
1000uF @ 25 Volts : 647-UKW1E102MPD

Bias Cap: two needed
680uF @ 6.3 Volts : 647-PLE0J681MDO1
(soldered underneath across the Bias Trim Pot)

Bias Trim Pot: two needed
2K multi turn : 652-3266W-1-202LF

Output MOSFET : two needed
IRF510 : 844-IRF510SPBF

Some suggested tubes for tube rolling were just covered in a previous post...


A couple of questions for you A_A.
 
The IRF510s you have listed here are the "SPBF" version which seem to be the surface mount type without the screw hole. The "PBF" version is of the same type as the IRF630s that are in the amp. Pictures are available on digi-key here of the "SPBF and PBF versions since mouser does not have any pictures.
 
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=IRF510SPBF-ND
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=IRF510PBF-ND
 
Second, about the bias caps. Back in the thread, someone posted these caps at 470uf:
 
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=493-3066-ND&itemSeq=85245622&uq=634088571800335270
 
What is the difference between these and the 680uf caps you listed?
 
And lastly, the WIMA caps you listed above are back ordered at mouser. Any other alternatives that are just as good?
 
May 7, 2010 at 8:36 PM Post #786 of 2,720

 
Quote:
Quote:

Originally Posted by pj_rage /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Well I have one on the way to play with, I'll be happy to post some pics if no one has by the time I receive it.

What should be my number 1, 2, 3 mods?

I have some Panasonic FC 1200uf and 1500uf 50V caps around... can I make use of them?



It would be hard for me to rank them in order as they are all worthwhile...
The most important would have to be adding the Bias Capacitors, they are
missing from the original design.
The Power/Output Caps and MOSFET will all get you noticeable improvements.
Replacing the Bias Trim Pots is more to replace a poor quality component with
one more suitable. If you plan on doing much tube rolling, it is much easier and accurate to adjust.
Finally, if it still has the poor quality push button on/off switch, just remove it, jumper where it was and turn the whole thing on and off with a power bar.
If it has the newer toggle switch then it should be OK.

Here are some component suggestions, they are by no means the only ones that will work but are strongly suggested. I included Mouser Part Numbers.

Main Power Cap: one needed
10000uF @ 35 Volts. : 647-UFW1V103MRD
(this is very big and will just fit

Power Bypass Cap: one needed
1uF @ 63 volts : 505-MKS21.0/63/10
(replaces the cap directly behind the power jack)

Output Caps: two needed
1000uF @ 25 Volts : 647-UKW1E102MPD

Bias Cap: two needed
680uF @ 6.3 Volts : 647-PLE0J681MDO1
(soldered underneath across the Bias Trim Pot)

Bias Trim Pot: two needed
2K multi turn : 652-3266W-1-202LF

Output MOSFET : two needed
IRF510 : 844-IRF510SPBF

Some suggested tubes for tube rolling were just covered in a previous post...


A couple of questions for you A_A.
 
The IRF510s you have listed here are the "SPBF" version which seem to be the surface mount type without the screw hole. The "PBF" version is of the same type as the IRF630s that are in the amp. Pictures are available on digi-key here of the "SPBF and PBF versions since mouser does not have any pictures.
 
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=IRF510SPBF-ND
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=IRF510PBF-ND
 
Second, about the bias caps. Back in the thread, someone posted these caps at 470uf:
 
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=493-3066-ND&itemSeq=85245622&uq=634088571800335270
 
What is the difference between these and the 680uf caps you listed?
 
And lastly, the WIMA caps you listed above are back ordered at mouser. Any other alternatives that are just as good?
 
May 8, 2010 at 9:49 AM Post #789 of 2,720

 
Quote:
Quote:

Originally Posted by pj_rage /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Well I have one on the way to play with, I'll be happy to post some pics if no one has by the time I receive it.

What should be my number 1, 2, 3 mods?

I have some Panasonic FC 1200uf and 1500uf 50V caps around... can I make use of them?



It would be hard for me to rank them in order as they are all worthwhile...
The most important would have to be adding the Bias Capacitors, they are
missing from the original design.
The Power/Output Caps and MOSFET will all get you noticeable improvements.
Replacing the Bias Trim Pots is more to replace a poor quality component with
one more suitable. If you plan on doing much tube rolling, it is much easier and accurate to adjust.
Finally, if it still has the poor quality push button on/off switch, just remove it, jumper where it was and turn the whole thing on and off with a power bar.
If it has the newer toggle switch then it should be OK.

Here are some component suggestions, they are by no means the only ones that will work but are strongly suggested. I included Mouser Part Numbers.

Main Power Cap: one needed
10000uF @ 35 Volts. : 647-UFW1V103MRD
(this is very big and will just fit

Power Bypass Cap: one needed
1uF @ 63 volts : 505-MKS21.0/63/10
(replaces the cap directly behind the power jack)

Output Caps: two needed
1000uF @ 25 Volts : 647-UKW1E102MPD

Bias Cap: two needed
680uF @ 6.3 Volts : 647-PLE0J681MDO1
(soldered underneath across the Bias Trim Pot)

Bias Trim Pot: two needed
2K multi turn : 652-3266W-1-202LF

Output MOSFET : two needed
IRF510 : 844-IRF510SPBF

Some suggested tubes for tube rolling were just covered in a previous post...

 
***- I had some trouble posting this yesterday. I got a message saying that my posts had to be accepted by a moderator since I am a new member. Today, I can post. This might come up as a double post later on. -***
 
A couple of questions for you A_A.
 
The IRF510s you have listed here are the "SPBF" version which seem to be the surface mount type without the screw hole. The "PBF" version is of the same type as the IRF630s that are in the amp. Pictures are available on digi-key here of the "SPBF and PBF versions since mouser does not have any pictures.
 
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=IRF510SPBF-ND
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=IRF510PBF-ND
 
Second, about the bias caps. Back in the thread, someone posted these caps at 470uf:
 
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=493-3066-ND&itemSeq=85245622&uq=634088571800335270
 
What is the difference between these and the 680uf caps you listed?
 
And lastly, the WIMA caps you listed above are back ordered at mouser. Any other alternatives that are just as good?
 
May 8, 2010 at 9:52 AM Post #790 of 2,720
A couple of questions for you A_A.
 
The IRF510s you have listed on page 50 of the thread, are the "SPBF" version which seem to be the surface mount type without the screw hole. The "PBF" version is of the same type as the IRF630s that are in the amp. Pictures are available on digi-key here of the "SPBF and PBF versions since mouser does not have any pictures.
 
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=IRF510SPBF-ND
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=IRF510PBF-ND
 
Second, about the bias caps. Back in the thread, someone posted these caps at 470uf:
 
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=493-3066-ND&itemSeq=85245622&uq=634088571800335270
 
What is the difference between these and the 680uf caps you listed?
 
And lastly, the WIMA caps you listed are back ordered at mouser. Any other alternatives that are just as good?
http://ca.mouser.com/ProductDetail/WIMA/MKS2-10-63-10/?qs=Vi0JKjFBtYl0Njt3oLGjWQ==

 
 
May 8, 2010 at 8:16 PM Post #791 of 2,720
The IRF510 should be the PBF version, not the surface mount version...must have clicked of the wrong one for the link...
 
The Bias Cap I suggested has very low ESR. Any low ESR cap of a value bigger than 100uF should produce a noticeable difference.
I have a 680uF @10 volt Panasonic cap in mine until I do my next parts order...
 
The Bypass cap is a tight fit so you can't go bigger. You can use a Vishay/BC 1uF from Digi-Key
I have the Vishay in mine...it was left over from a previous build.
Maybe Mouser has the same cap.
 
Quote:
A couple of questions for you A_A.
 
The IRF510s you have listed on page 50 of the thread, are the "SPBF" version which seem to be the surface mount type without the screw hole. The "PBF" version is of the same type as the IRF630s that are in the amp. Pictures are available on digi-key here of the "SPBF and PBF versions since mouser does not have any pictures.
 
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=IRF510SPBF-ND
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=IRF510PBF-ND
 
Second, about the bias caps. Back in the thread, someone posted these caps at 470uf:
 
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=493-3066-ND&itemSeq=85245622&uq=634088571800335270
 
What is the difference between these and the 680uf caps you listed?
 
And lastly, the WIMA caps you listed are back ordered at mouser. Any other alternatives that are just as good?
http://ca.mouser.com/ProductDetail/WIMA/MKS2-10-63-10/?qs=Vi0JKjFBtYl0Njt3oLGjWQ==

 



 
May 8, 2010 at 8:32 PM Post #792 of 2,720
I'm probably not the best person to answer this...but...
 
If the tube has the same pin out and uses 150mA for the heater at 6.3 or 7 volts
it has a good chance of working. If it has a 300mA heater it has no chance of working
because the heater is part of the circuit that biases the MOSFET and the current source
is set at 150mA. If it needs 12.6 volts for the heater it will probably upset the MOSFET.
If you want to experiment, just use an inexpensive tube of a type you would like to try
and see what happens. The worst that could happen is that the whole thing will catch
on fire and burn your house down but I think it is more likely that it will either work
or not but you will not damage anything by trying...
 
Anyone else have a more intelligent answer? I'm far from a tube expert...
 
Quote:
guys, how do i know if the tube compatible with this amp by looking at the spec?



 
May 8, 2010 at 11:26 PM Post #793 of 2,720


Quote:
What are the sound signatures of different tubes? I got one of these bad bois on the way. I'm considering getting the ecc88 since a few ppl have been mentioning it. How do they sound compared to the stock tube? I'm a total newb in amp modding so tube rolling is probaly the furthest I'm doing for now. Another question? Which manufaturer is better? Tesla or Siemens?
 
Thanks guys.


Old school Teslas sound a lot like Siemens. The big four of old school tubes are Amperex (Philips), Siemens, Mullards and Telefunken. If you want info on sound signatures, Google each tube type (ECC88, E88CC, etc.) and start reading. There's a lot of info in this thread and the Indeed thread, too. The ECC88 is the European designation for the American 6dj8, the E88CC is Euro for the American 6922... You gotta read all the tube sites.
 
May 8, 2010 at 11:26 PM Post #794 of 2,720
I think this is the same thing...just a different part #

http://ca.mouser.com/ProductDetail/WIMA/MKS2-1-63-5T/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvOcEq4GH1AApISu39GQuPNrHPZfaTFZMc%3d
 
Quote:
A couple of questions for you A_A.
 
The IRF510s you have listed on page 50 of the thread, are the "SPBF" version which seem to be the surface mount type without the screw hole. The "PBF" version is of the same type as the IRF630s that are in the amp. Pictures are available on digi-key here of the "SPBF and PBF versions since mouser does not have any pictures.
 
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=IRF510SPBF-ND
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=IRF510PBF-ND
 
Second, about the bias caps. Back in the thread, someone posted these caps at 470uf:
 
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=493-3066-ND&itemSeq=85245622&uq=634088571800335270
 
What is the difference between these and the 680uf caps you listed?
 
And lastly, the WIMA caps you listed are back ordered at mouser. Any other alternatives that are just as good?
http://ca.mouser.com/ProductDetail/WIMA/MKS2-10-63-10/?qs=Vi0JKjFBtYl0Njt3oLGjWQ==

 



 
May 9, 2010 at 10:52 AM Post #795 of 2,720
The difference in those caps is the original is 5% tolerance and the new link you posted has a 10% tolerance.
 
On another note, my amp started making noise in the right channel. I thought it was a tube pin problem but it turned out to be a bias problem. I had 7 volts in the right channel and 8 volts in the left at the output cap. I readjusted to 12.04 volts which was the closest I could get. What a difference now. Not only is the noise all gone but the dynamics have opened up dramatically. The sound stage is way out there now and I can hear things I couldn't before. I guess the mods even make it better.
 
I'm gonna buy those 10% caps and get my order filled. I don't think a 5% tolerance will make a difference for the bypass cap.
 
Also A_A, you mention that the big PS filter cap just fits. Does it fit through the plastic cover where the original pops out of? Or does it just fit the board?
 

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